How much value does the WOD being a Huge Brand has to you?

[Newb95]

I think many of the new fans that get hooked on WoD do it thanks to it's basic premise, I mean, regardless of recent developements, the setting is still cool as fuck and unique, upon a superficial inspection is very interesting, it is when you start going deeper that the magic kinda goes away and you find a crock of shit full of good intentions and bad ideas, I mean it was like this even for oWoD (Dirty secrets of the black hand anyone?) but, unlike V5 and Hunter (and W5 too judging by how it is shaping up to be), oWoD actually had some very solid foundations that helped it stand up despite the not so occasional bad book (I'm not on the wagon that everything oWoD was good, it had plenty of crap too).

Regarding the brand itself, I'm no marketing expert but they are not going to get this thing flying without a kickass game or an equally good tv series, people don't give a shit about tabletop rpgs, they want to see movies and games.

[Knightingale]

It doesn't help that they released the V5 corebook (which actually did pretty well and is a nice book) and two somewhat problematic supplements, then had multiple rounds of cancelling everything and giving the projects to a new team (we're on like version three of W5?) causing stuff like the V5 Players Guide to be delayed for half a decade.

And their current setup of the in-house team doing the corebooks and a team at Renegade doing all the work for supplements, releases are showing up at a snail's pace. Not only that, after this setup was implemented the V5 players guide immediately got delayed again, so now it's coming out next year. Maybe another supplement will also get released next year if we're lucky. And that's another thing, with the release-schedule being this opaque it's hard to build up anticipation with ads and promotion.

So, I don't think the ttrpg-books-side of things is doing great as a brand as well.

[Newb95]

And their current setup of the in-house team doing the corebooks and a team at Renegade doing all the work for supplements, releases are showing up at a snail's pace. Not only that, after this setup was implemented the V5 players guide immediately got delayed again, so now it's coming out next year. Maybe another supplement will also get released next year if we're lucky. And that's another thing, with the release-schedule being this opaque it's hard to build up anticipation with ads and promotion.

So, I don't think the ttrpg-books-side of things is doing great as a brand as well.

Given the quality of the recent supplements, it might actually be a blessing if they slow down a bit, maybe they will come to their senses and start to fix this train wreck, quanity over quality ain't going to fix it.

[Ragged Robin]

As a lot have people have implies I can't really give a clear answer since they havnt done a great job with it full stop. I could see advantages and disadvantages in such a thing if it'd been done well but we're not seeing that.

[Ragged Robin]

I don't think Paradox is a good steward of their ttrpg ips and I'll leave it at that.

Part of the problem is they had their heads in the clouds about the big boy franchise and didn't bother building the groundwork in the actual damned core games. Did they even do any market research on how vtm was played before they handed it to Martin? Why is Justin gutting the werewolf setting? If they're trying to make a broad appeal franchise why are they hyper focusing on one niche play style?

[Nicolas Milioni]

ok,you guys have been honest with me so i'll be honest with you all. i've been reading your comments and the negativity has been bothering me,then i did some reflection. I realized i have been overly defensive of paradox as a company,and of their decisions. i asked myself the reason for that and the answer that i realized was that i was afraid that if people keep complaining the Wod brand and the cofd with it will end forever. That's why i've been so overly defensive,i was terrifid they'll pull the plug and there will be no more wod and cofd products whatsoever anymore.
i have been like a ostrich,putting my head in the ground ad ingnoring the problems,pretending everything was ok. i am better than that.
For that i am sorry.
With that being said,i do like the overall quality of the products made by the companies paradox has licensed,like OPP, Choice of Games,Draw Distance,Renegade and the rest. but yeah,i don't like what paradox itself has done.
This thread was a mistake,because you see,i kinda agree with you all. while i like the majority of the products made under paradox ownership,i am dissapointed with the decisions the higher ups have done. again,i had been overly defensive because i'm terrfied it all will end in a sudden manner.
so,i'll be away from the forums for just a little while,will take some mental health days. when i come back i promise to be honest about my opinions.

[Ragged Robin]

Theirs nothing to apologise for its an interesting question and sparked discussion.

[Newb95]

ok,you guys have been honest with me so i'll be honest with you all. i've been reading your comments and the negativity has been bothering me,then i did some reflection. I realized i have been overly defensive of paradox as a company,and of their decisions. i asked myself the reason for that and the answer that i realized was that i was afraid that if people keep complaining the Wod brand and the cofd with it will end forever. That's why i've been so overly defensive,i was terrifid they'll pull the plug and there will be no more wod and cofd products whatsoever anymore.
i have been like a ostrich,putting my head in the ground ad ingnoring the problems,pretending everything was ok. i am better than that.
For that i am sorry.
With that being said,i do like the overall quality of the products made by the companies paradox has licensed,like OPP, Choice of Games,Draw Distance,Renegade and the rest. but yeah,i don't like what paradox itself has done.
This thread was a mistake,because you see,i kinda agree with you all. while i like the majority of the products made under paradox ownership,i am dissapointed with the decisions the higher ups have done. again,i had been overly defensive because i'm terrfied it all will end in a sudden manner.
so,i'll be away from the forums for just a little while,will take some mental health days. when i come back i promise to be honest about my opinions.

Don't get the apology honestly, opinions are like assholes yadda yadda, shit talking was always a stappling of WoD (and rpgs in general), the negativity on this forum is, frankly, nothing out of the ordinary (you should see what see what's on Dnd's or god forbid Warhammer's forums), Paradox never gave a shit about what the fans thought and they sure as hell ain't going to pull the plug on WoD without at least getting back their investment.

On the subject of CofD, nothing has been officially said but the fact that the few books coming were either kickstarters or previously announced, the fact that there is nothing new on the horizon and the fact that Onyx Path has been focusing on their other properties, doesn't paint a healthy picture for the property, personally I'm just waiting on the announcement so that I can drop both Paradox and Onyx Path as a whole...

[Asmodai]

ok,you guys have been honest with me so i'll be honest with you all. i've been reading your comments and the negativity has been bothering me,then i did some reflection. I realized i have been overly defensive of paradox as a company,and of their decisions. i asked myself the reason for that and the answer that i realized was that i was afraid that if people keep complaining the Wod brand and the cofd with it will end forever. That's why i've been so overly defensive,i was terrifid they'll pull the plug and there will be no more wod and cofd products whatsoever anymore.
i have been like a ostrich,putting my head in the ground ad ingnoring the problems,pretending everything was ok. i am better than that.
For that i am sorry.
With that being said,i do like the overall quality of the products made by the companies paradox has licensed,like OPP, Choice of Games,Draw Distance,Renegade and the rest. but yeah,i don't like what paradox itself has done.
This thread was a mistake,because you see,i kinda agree with you all. while i like the majority of the products made under paradox ownership,i am dissapointed with the decisions the higher ups have done. again,i had been overly defensive because i'm terrfied it all will end in a sudden manner.
so,i'll be away from the forums for just a little while,will take some mental health days. when i come back i promise to be honest about my opinions.

Don't let what a corporation does to make money and curry favour with random people affect You. You are You and nothing someone does for money and fame will ever matter more than You. It's easy to define yourself by the things you care for outside of your influence, but remember that at the end of the day they aren't important.

Sorry to hear you need a break, but taking time for yourself is always worth it.

[MrNatas]

Honestly I like WoD as a media property. I have several of the Novels, I've played VtmB to death and I enjoy the card games, at least from the little I have played.

I think the problem comes from the recent wave of media and it's been mixed. The only new media that I have any interest in getting is the Vampire - Heritage board game.

[MyWifeIsScary]

The thing that absolutely puzzles me is that now is absolutely the perfect time for a VTM TV show. The fantasy/superhero genre is mainstream, edgyness is in, the window for early 90's nostalgia to really make money is here, more people are interested in politics or at least political dramas, people love long-form series... You're much less likely to get hamstringed by producers or whatever was the case with Kindred: The Embraced. That and CGI is cheaper than it used to be. Like, not making a TV show is pants. With the 90's nostalgia in mind there's no better time than this decade.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

ok,you guys have been honest with me so i'll be honest with you all. i've been reading your comments and the negativity has been bothering me,then i did some reflection. I realized i have been overly defensive of paradox as a company,and of their decisions. i asked myself the reason for that and the answer that i realized was that i was afraid that if people keep complaining the Wod brand and the cofd with it will end forever. That's why i've been so overly defensive,i was terrifid they'll pull the plug and there will be no more wod and cofd products whatsoever anymore.
i have been like a ostrich,putting my head in the ground ad ingnoring the problems,pretending everything was ok. i am better than that.
For that i am sorry.
With that being said,i do like the overall quality of the products made by the companies paradox has licensed,like OPP, Choice of Games,Draw Distance,Renegade and the rest. but yeah,i don't like what paradox itself has done.
This thread was a mistake,because you see,i kinda agree with you all. while i like the majority of the products made under paradox ownership,i am dissapointed with the decisions the higher ups have done. again,i had been overly defensive because i'm terrfied it all will end in a sudden manner.
so,i'll be away from the forums for just a little while,will take some mental health days. when i come back i promise to be honest about my opinions.

For my own part I would say don't feel you need to apologize. My own perception is built out of personally negative interactions with Paradox, Hardsuit Labs and a concentrated area of WoD 5e fandom that has to put it mildly, left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't expect anyone else to share such an outlook if they haven't also experienced similar things.

Fwiw before those interactions I was actively and excitedly(well semi excitedly) awaiting WoD video games but that interaction and the way they've handled CofD has meant no desire to even spend that money. If a game in my wheelhouse manages to get stellar reviews I might check it out on a sale but Paradox has been nothing but damage to the brand in my eyes. But I don't expect you or anyone to follow in that regard. We all have to make our own consumer decisions after all.

[MrNatas]

MyWifeIsScary

Also you already have had several successful long running TV shows with supernatural elements. Like you had True Blood and The Vampire Diaries, which not the most political still are successful supernatural dramas that had several different types of supernatural all interweaved together. Plus with successful shows like LA by Night, the time for a new 'World of Darkness' show has never been better.

[Heavy Arms]

While not the biggest consideration, I would argue that the late 2010s would have been a better time than right now, simple because of competition. While in hindsight COVID would have been a problem, 2015-2020 was probably the best time to get some new vampire focused TV show going (which... post COVID we're already seeing a few now that probably would have happened sooner if not for the pandemic), because the first half of the 2010s saw a bunch of big vampire franchises end. A bit of breathing from to not over saturate things, and there wasn't a lot for vampire TV fans for a bit. Coming in now we've got Interview with the Vampire out, Blade making a return, and so on that's going to start making it harder to find an audience with yet another vampire show that's playing on 90s nostalgia.

I think the current market is a lot stronger for a more general WoD anthology style series rather than focusing on just vampires.

[adambeyoncelowe]

ok,you guys have been honest with me so i'll be honest with you all. i've been reading your comments and the negativity has been bothering me,then i did some reflection. I realized i have been overly defensive of paradox as a company,and of their decisions. i asked myself the reason for that and the answer that i realized was that i was afraid that if people keep complaining the Wod brand and the cofd with it will end forever. That's why i've been so overly defensive,i was terrifid they'll pull the plug and there will be no more wod and cofd products whatsoever anymore.
i have been like a ostrich,putting my head in the ground ad ingnoring the problems,pretending everything was ok. i am better than that.
For that i am sorry.
With that being said,i do like the overall quality of the products made by the companies paradox has licensed,like OPP, Choice of Games,Draw Distance,Renegade and the rest. but yeah,i don't like what paradox itself has done.
This thread was a mistake,because you see,i kinda agree with you all. while i like the majority of the products made under paradox ownership,i am dissapointed with the decisions the higher ups have done. again,i had been overly defensive because i'm terrfied it all will end in a sudden manner.
so,i'll be away from the forums for just a little while,will take some mental health days. when i come back i promise to be honest about my opinions.

Honestly, don't apologise at all! And if I've personally added to any sense of negativity, then I apologise. I try to be honest but not rude, but tone is always hard to judge online, and when we care about something -- well, we often come across as more passionate than we intended.

That said, your post really interests me, because it makes me wonder how common this feeling is. I have noticed a very weird defensiveness, sometimes, about V5 and WoD5.

Like, even discussing house rules for things like Hunger or Resonance (not on here but other places) can get you huge pushback because it's like you're attacking a fundamental part of the new edition and that has to be stopped immediately!

Whereas, hate on Revised Edition seemed fairly popular, and even when people complained about too much negativity, there wasn't quite the same defensiveness...?

But maybe it's just different because I came in with Revised, so I might be on the other side to that now.

Interesting, nonetheless.