How much value does the WOD being a Huge Brand has to you?

[Dogstar]

In fact, because this made my recommendations, I watched it, and it's entirely on point here (this is from a channel with ~25 million subscribers and ~110 million regular viewers, so this is what people that aren't plugged into things are hearing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDSXJttA_rg

Wow, I watched short section on Swansong and this quote really made the point 'gameplay wise vampire powers take the back sett and are rarely ever used in a creative way' - that's the EXACT SAME PROBLEM that Bloodhunt has and I'm sure it's down to lack of brand enforcement from Paradox. They sell a licence and then sit back thinking they're in the money while some silly designer screws the brand over.

It's attitude like this that destroys brands.

[Ragged Robin]

Honestly, don't apologise at all! And if I've personally added to any sense of negativity, then I apologise. I try to be honest but not rude, but tone is always hard to judge online, and when we care about something -- well, we often come across as more passionate than we intended.

That said, your post really interests me, because it makes me wonder how common this feeling is. I have noticed a very weird defensiveness, sometimes, about V5 and WoD5.

Like, even discussing house rules for things like Hunger or Resonance (not on here but other places) can get you huge pushback because it's like you're attacking a fundamental part of the new edition and that has to be stopped immediately!

Whereas, hate on Revised Edition seemed fairly popular, and even when people complained about too much negativity, there wasn't quite the same defensiveness...?

But maybe it's just different because I came in with Revised, so I might be on the other side to that now.

Interesting, nonetheless.

I think it comes down to a couple of things. One of the big issues is "the one true way" culture wod has had for years and hit critical mass in 5th. That their is a right way to play the game and by inferance a wrong one. Ergo criticisms of the game are the katana welding power gamer/power fantasy trying to ruin your 'deep' game, an attitude v5 has implicitly endorsed which then leaks into fan discussion.

I've also noticed criticism has been based on momentum more than Revised. Reactions to the v5 corebook in off itself were initially quite measured and worked on the assumption the was going to be developed. I think things started to get nasty with later books as more and more stuff which people liked or got changed was stripped away. I know v5 lasombra left a bad taste in me and the other keeper fangirls I know and I can't even write the assessments of v5 sabbat I've heard irl without catching a ban. This creates a culture where criticism and irritation is constantly coming in, which I imagine is quite annoying.

It should also be said its not all one way, I got called a nazi chud apologist for appealing for calm following the early nazi brujah accusations. That's the Internet I suppose.

[adambeyoncelowe]

I think it comes down to a couple of things. One of the big issues is "the one true way" culture wod has had for years and hit critical mass in 5th. That their is a right way to play the game and by inferance a wrong one. Ergo criticisms of the game are the katana welding power gamer/power fantasy trying to ruin your 'deep' game, an attitude v5 has implicitly endorsed which then leaks into fan discussion.

I've also noticed criticism has been based on momentum more than Revised. Reactions to the v5 corebook in off itself were initially quite measured and worked on the assumption the was going to be developed. I think things started to get nasty with later books as more and more stuff which people liked or got changed was stripped away. I know v5 lasombra left a bad taste in me and the other keeper fangirls I know and I can't even write the assessments of v5 sabbat I've heard irl without catching a ban. This creates a culture where criticism and irritation is constantly coming in, which I imagine is quite annoying.

It should also be said its not all one way, I got called a nazi chud apologist for appealing for calm following the early nazi brujah accusations. That's the Internet I suppose.

Well put. I think the momentum thing is important too. There's a cumulative impact with the CRB + Camarilla + Anarchs + delayed-PG-that-became-the-Companion + Sabbat.

With that in mind, a big success for the brand could go a long way towards bringing the community together again. Even if people don't like V5, they might feel more engaged with this edition if there's something big and enjoyable they can still enjoy.

Not to put more pressure on the team behind Bloodlines 2, of course...

[Ragged Robin]

Well put. I think the momentum thing is important too. There's a cumulative impact with the CRB + Camarilla + Anarchs + delayed-PG-that-became-the-Companion + Sabbat.

With that in mind, a big success for the brand could go a long way towards bringing the community together again. Even if people don't like V5, they might feel more engaged with this edition if there's something big and enjoyable they can still enjoy.

Not to put more pressure on the team behind Bloodlines 2, of course...

Yeah the stunting of momentum has been massive issue. The anarch book really took a lot of wind out the sails since it became clear they didn't really have an actual direction they were going after the soft reset and Sabbat made it clear they'd resist implementing older stuff. I think your right a lot of the tension within the fandom would dissolve with some more blood gods or even a Sabbat revised tier book or the vtm equivelant of vermintide. Throw the defenders some ammo so they've got something beyond saying mana pool,,go play v20 or calling me a dumb bitch.

Stuff like blood gods effectively stabilised the situation but going forward they're going to need w5 to be a smash hit and some real bangers in terms of games.

[Asmodai]

Stuff like blood gods effectively stabilised the situation but going forward they're going to need w5 to be a smash hit and some real bangers in terms of games.

Oh yes. Best game ever...

[MrNatas]

Has anyone played those 'Choice of Games', CYOA Novels? Looking at the steam reviews 3/4 of them are 'Mostly Positive' so while not bangers (Virtual CYOA Novels are not going to have wide appeal) they seem to at least me good experiences?

[Rhywbeth]

I enjoyed the Choice of Games stuff, particularly Night Road (picking a Lasombra PC is probably the closest I'm ever going to get to playing Sabbat in a VtM pc game).

Maybe it's just me, but part of the reason I tend to get wound up about V5 and WoD5 is because I like the World of Darkness and would actually like the franchise to succeed? Having more avenues to drag the people in my life kicking and screaming into the setting, like a TV series, would be nice. I love Bloodlines, I would absolutely love more Bloodlines. When it first came out I was patient with it, because it had only just started and the WoD is pretty big. It would grow. And then the Sabbat thing happened and it was all downhill from there, and there is really no way I can currently support it. That admittedly makes me kind of bitter and worried that Paradox may give the franchise the same treatment they gave one of their own games, Imperator: Rome (which is effectively canceled, last I checked). At the same time I don't have the money to waste supporting the franchise going in directions I don't enjoy.

[Manfr]

Honestly, don't apologise at all! And if I've personally added to any sense of negativity, then I apologise. I try to be honest but not rude, but tone is always hard to judge online, and when we care about something -- well, we often come across as more passionate than we intended.

That said, your post really interests me, because it makes me wonder how common this feeling is. I have noticed a very weird defensiveness, sometimes, about V5 and WoD5.

Like, even discussing house rules for things like Hunger or Resonance (not on here but other places) can get you huge pushback because it's like you're attacking a fundamental part of the new edition and that has to be stopped immediately!

Whereas, hate on Revised Edition seemed fairly popular, and even when people complained about too much negativity, there wasn't quite the same defensiveness...?

But maybe it's just different because I came in with Revised, so I might be on the other side to that now.

Interesting, nonetheless.

Tribalism is always bad. As a V5 supporter, I've had the exact inverse problem: usually, every time I try to point out the merits of V5, I'm rebuked by V20 hardliners that if I don't recognize V5 has inherent flaws that must be corrected, I'm not discussing in good faith.

[Heavy Arms]

It feels very strange to me to decry tribalism as always bad (I'm not sure that's an absolute), but then to identify yourself as a member of a "tribe," having a disagreement with people you identify as being members of a different "tribe," and then making it sound like they're the problem. Isn't that textbook tribalism where you get to dismiss people that aren't coming from the same perspective as you because of their differences from you rather than any distinct flaws with the points they raise?

[CTPhipps]

No Edition Warring.


Drop it.

[Shakanaka]

The thing that absolutely puzzles me is that now is absolutely the perfect time for a VTM TV show. The fantasy/superhero genre is mainstream, edgyness is in, the window for early 90's nostalgia to really make money is here, more people are interested in politics or at least political dramas, people love long-form series... You're much less likely to get hamstringed by producers or whatever was the case with Kindred: The Embraced. That and CGI is cheaper than it used to be. Like, not making a TV show is pants. With the 90's nostalgia in mind there's no better time than this decade.

Get the guys who made / directed Supernatural to make the show.

[Asmodai]

Get the guys who made / directed Supernatural to make the show.

He's making Boys for Amazon these days.

[MrNatas]

He's making Boys for Amazon these days.

Shit, is he really? Good for him.

[Ragged Robin]

Get the guys who made / directed Supernatural to make the show.

I've always thought they should do some animated shorts like 40k. Crawl before you walk afterall.

[MrNatas]

I've always thought they should do some animated shorts like 40k. Crawl before you walk afterall.

Would scripted radio dramas be that? Like they have the live plays but like something that is more "Here is your lines and character" be more akin to that?