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Why are Sluagh and Redcaps Kithain and not Thallain?

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  • zenten
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



    Also considering that the original Redcaps would dye their clothes in the blood of their victims before eventually abandoning that tradition in favor of just wearing red garments.
    .
    I was under the impression in Changeling that most redcaps still follow that tradition, although most don't use wool hats anymore.

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Yes, but then most of the Thaillain then don't need to be Thallain. I am saying Redcaps work as Kithain, but they would work even better as Thallain, and were clearly the odd man out in the original kithain roster. They were the edgy kith.

    And Slaugh seem fine as kithain, many of the Slaugh are portrayed as kind soft spoken Tim Burton characters, they aren't necessarily sinister just odd.


    Also considering that the original Redcaps would dye their clothes in the blood of their victims before eventually abandoning that tradition in favor of just wearing red garments.

    Real world mythology states that the redcap's life force is tied to the vibrancy of their caps. If they allowed the color to fade, they would in turn grow weaker and eventually die. That means these fuckers are going around murdering people on a nearly constant basis just to keep their hats fresh!


    Also, I agree that the Sluagh are fine where they are. Looking creepy and communicating entirely in whispers is not ground for being labeled as a harbinger of chaos.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 04-03-2018, 05:50 PM.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    Because your definitions are wrong. Kithain are Dreams and Nightmares. Thallain are Nightmares and primal horror.
    Ok...then what's your definition of "primal horror" and how does it apply to the Thallain? And how that differentiates them from sluagh and redcaps?

    Originally posted by zenten View Post
    Because the Sluagh and Redcap kiths were developed before the concept of Thallain. Also, it wasn't until C20 that the Redcaps had a Thallain version; it's even commented on in Kithbook Redcaps.

    *Rolls for Banality trigger*
    ...ok fair enough. If it's something changed for C20 that wasn't in 1e or 2e, not much you can do.

    Still haven't gone through the Redcap kithbook yet, although I hear it's pretty good. Currently still neck-deep juggling between my backer copy of Wraith20, DtD's Enemy Action, and BtP's Player's Guide.

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Slaugh are very gothic and are more neutral in their potential I think.
    But...
    Redcaps totally should be That is why they weren't initially given a Thallain, hell it would have been cool if they wrote some secret lore that the Redcaps were actually lured over from the Thallain into becoming Kithain proper. They are fun as Kithain, but they are totally Thallain stock, it would be like making a Wendigo Kithain rather then Thallain.
    Oh absolutely. I do think there would be an interesting story to tell on the circumstances of the redcaps being inducted into the Kithain. Perhaps even do it as a PC redcap's character arc, where he and his kin are being threatened to get kicked out of a freehold/duchy due to misconceptions on their entire kith, and now they need to go on a Quest into the Dreaming to prove their kith's ultimate loyalty to Arcadian society.

    With sluagh though...well, there is that bit on their Revelry on how they gain Glamour from scaring people. And whether you hold the story at the beginning of the sluagh kithbook to be true or not, their propensity for fear had to come from SOMEWHERE. That nothing is stopping them from creating fear in others again if they so choose to...

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  • zenten
    replied
    Heck, while the C20 writeup certainly goes that way, not all the Thallain really have to be Thallain. Ogres for instance are a bit less nightmarish than redcaps.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Yes, but then most of the Thaillain then don't need to be Thallain. I am saying Redcaps work as Kithain, but they would work even better as Thallain, and were clearly the odd man out in the original kithain roster. They were the edgy kith.

    And Slaugh seem fine as kithain, many of the Slaugh are portrayed as kind soft spoken Tim Burton characters, they aren't necessarily sinister just odd.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jane_Dargason
    replied
    Because they are Fear, Hunger, and the Drive for Survival. Fear and Hunger aren't exclusively things of Nightmare, Fear can Drive People to Overcome it and Better themselves or put comment sense needed for survival in order while Hunger can bring out a raw sort of Cleverness and Instinct in order to satiate the need to continue. These things helped Humanity in the Early Days most definitely. Plus both Kiths have significantly evolved since the mythic era.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Slaugh are very gothic and are more neutral in their potential I think.
    But...
    Redcaps totally should be That is why they weren't initially given a Thallain, hell it would have been cool if they wrote some secret lore that the Redcaps were actually lured over from the Thallain into becoming Kithain proper. They are fun as Kithain, but they are totally Thallain stock, it would be like making a Wendigo Kithain rather then Thallain.

    Leave a comment:


  • zenten
    replied
    Because the Sluagh and Redcap kiths were developed before the concept of Thallain. Also, it wasn't until C20 that the Redcaps had a Thallain version; it's even commented on in Kithbook Redcaps.

    *Rolls for Banality trigger*

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    So I believe this is *a* question that's been circling the game for awhile but...

    Why are the Sluagh and Redcaps considered Kithain and not Thallain?

    Regular kithain are considered to be creatures that promote dreams and wonder, while thallain push for nightmares and fear. Sluagh and redcaps seem to fall more in the latter then the former (which is mechanically represented by their Revelries). So what is it that makes them different from the thallain? Or, in another way, why are they less-nightmar-ish then their counterparts the bogies or the ghasts?

    (and if this question is already answered in officially material, please direct me to them!)

    Because your definitions are wrong. Kithain are Dreams and Nightmares. Thallain are Nightmares and primal horror.

    Leave a comment:


  • Why are Sluagh and Redcaps Kithain and not Thallain?

    So I believe this is *a* question that's been circling the game for awhile but...

    Why are the Sluagh and Redcaps considered Kithain and not Thallain?

    Regular kithain are considered to be creatures that promote dreams and wonder, while thallain push for nightmares and fear. Sluagh and redcaps seem to fall more in the latter then the former (which is mechanically represented by their Revelries). So what is it that makes them different from the thallain? Or, in another way, why are they less-nightmar-ish then their counterparts the bogies or the ghasts?

    (and if this question is already answered in officially material, please direct me to them!)
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