i heard they made two of the Unseelie houses more playable

[Konradleijon]

cause Leanhaun and Balor where both considered too monstrous to be PC material.

another thing i heard of house Ailil the only Unseelie house from the second book of houses which where playable made deals with the nepthrendi ?

[Lian]

Balor aren't Thallain so they were made able to be seelie. Thallain were made into completely different things having a nightmare and Unseelie legacy. Now conceptually they were made less of a 5th column and are actually bad ass monster hunters who want to dominate you with their strength and less "We are going to betray you.. and we are so obvious about it we call ourselves by the name of your enemies"

Leanhaun and Varich were... unplayable. Not because they were too monsterous but because they were mechanically unplayable... like Vampires who couldn't drink blood unplayable. Leanhaun just would have a body trail that stretches suspension of disbelief...and basically wouldn't let you do anything except work on murdering people. All you could do to maintain your character not aging super rapidly would be "work on destroying this artist in a week".

Varich were worse since it was "Ok you've lost one challenge now you die"

Ailil are the only ones who talk about playing with Nephandi.. because Ailil are stupid arrogant pricks.

[Windthin]

cause Leanhaun and Balor where both considered too monstrous to be PC material.

another thing i heard of house Ailil the only Unseelie house from the second book of houses which where playable made deals with the nepthrendi ?

They were always playable, but difficult to play. Leanhaun's flaw made them hard to have as PCs, and it felt like the Seelie majority hunted them. Balor were often little better than mustache-twirling villains. Now both are more nuanced and really playable.

[Konradleijon]

[QUOTE=Lian;n1367953]Balor aren't Thallain so they were made able to be seelie. Thallain were made into completely different things having a nightmare and Unseelie legacy. Now conceptually they were made less of a 5th column and are actually bad ass monster hunters who want to dominate you with their strength and less "We are going to betray you.. and we are so obvious about it we call ourselves by the name of your enemies"

Leanhaun and Varich were... unplayable. Not because they were too monsterous but because they were mechanically unplayable... like Vampires who couldn't drink blood unplayable. Leanhaun just would have a body trail that stretches suspension of disbelief...and basically wouldn't let you do anything except work on murdering people. All you could do to maintain your character not aging super rapidly would be "work on destroying this artist in a week".

Varich were worse since it was "Ok you've lost one challenge now you die"

Ailil are the only ones who talk about playing with Nephandi.. because Ailil are stupid arrogant pricks.[/QUOTE
Yeah the whole weekly ravaging thing seems pretty unbelievable. Especially since House Leanhaun gets very close with the dreamers before rhapsodising them.

Like how? You only have a week. Maybe making it biannual would make more sense.

[Lian]

Yeah the whole weekly ravaging thing seems pretty unbelievable. Especially since House Leanhaun gets very close with the dreamers before rhapsodising them.

Like how? You only have a week. Maybe making it biannual would make more sense.

Here are the legitimate changes to the Unseelie houses.

Aesin-used to be so dismissive of humans they were down traits for social interactions, Now they can't engage in Rapture.

Ailil-no change.

Balor-only change is may be seelie Primary. Major plot change is.. not being dumb.

Danaan-New for cb20 focused on Dreaming

Daireann-Dragon's Ire was made into an art built around combat rather than an innate thing so their old powers made no sense. Now they get bonuses hospitality and an inability to not offer it... this probably makes them BAD choices for an Unseelie house but meh that was debatable pre c20

Leanhaun-same bonuses, penalty now is no longer built only to fixed by RHAPSODY. Can easily survive with quick and regular Ravaging along with gettting bonuses to Rhapsody. STill has week penalty now its just dooable and potentially achievable with judicious use of Freeholds at Musing, though that's muc harder. They are still incentivized to be be soul eating monsters just its dooable...


The MAJOR change to the Unseelie court was not to make the Shadow Court synonymous with it. The Unseelie court is a power in and of itself. Its weaker than the Seelie but its not an explicit 5th column for the Formorians.

[Eldagusto]

Balor aren't Thallain so they were made able to be seelie. Thallain were made into completely different things having a nightmare and Unseelie legacy. Now conceptually they were made less of a 5th column and are actually bad ass monster hunters who want to dominate you with their strength and less "We are going to betray you.. and we are so obvious about it we call ourselves by the name of your enemies"

Leanhaun and Varich were... unplayable. Not because they were too monsterous but because they were mechanically unplayable... like Vampires who couldn't drink blood unplayable. Leanhaun just would have a body trail that stretches suspension of disbelief...and basically wouldn't let you do anything except work on murdering people. All you could do to maintain your character not aging super rapidly would be "work on destroying this artist in a week".

Varich were worse since it was "Ok you've lost one challenge now you die"

Ailil are the only ones who talk about playing with Nephandi.. because Ailil are stupid arrogant pricks.

Actually that was older editions C20 Thaillain have a Nightmare Legacy and the other Legacy can Be Seelie or Unseelie.

[Lian]

Actually that was older editions C20 Thaillain have a Nightmare Legacy and the other Legacy can Be Seelie or Unseelie.

I said Thallain were changed. I also was saying Balor were never intended to be Sidhe Thallain and thus shouldn't have been stuck with the one court thing

[Konradleijon]

Here are the legitimate changes to the Unseelie houses.

Aesin-used to be so dismissive of humans they were down traits for social interactions, Now they can't engage in Rapture.

Ailil-no change.

Balor-only change is may be seelie Primary. Major plot change is.. not being dumb.

Danaan-New for cb20 focused on Dreaming

Daireann-Dragon's Ire was made into an art built around combat rather than an innate thing so their old powers made no sense. Now they get bonuses hospitality and an inability to not offer it... this probably makes them BAD choices for an Unseelie house but meh that was debatable pre c20

Leanhaun-same bonuses, penalty now is no longer built only to fixed by RHAPSODY. Can easily survive with quick and regular Ravaging along with gettting bonuses to Rhapsody. STill has week penalty now its just dooable and potentially achievable with judicious use of Freeholds at Musing, though that's muc harder. They are still incentivized to be be soul eating monsters just its dooable...


The MAJOR change to the Unseelie court was not to make the Shadow Court synonymous with it. The Unseelie court is a power in and of itself. Its weaker than the Seelie but its not an explicit 5th column for the Formorians.

Yeah the game got confused on what the Unseelie court was supose to be.

[Saint Michael]

The weekly Leanhaun Rhapsody was a typo. It was meant to be monthly. Still virtually unplayable until c20.

[Konradleijon]

That makes more since,

[Ragnell]

I guess I must be the only one who likes the Unseelie Court political changes. I mean, I wish they'd updated the legacies a bit, but it seems to me like with Ailil, Daireann, Varich, Aesin and Danaan you now have a court that would believably have taken over for half the year back in the day. They're a little colder, a lot more independent and a lot less romantic but could be good people too. Daireann, with their poison and potions expertise combined with a sense of honor that hinges on hospitality -- which is all the more important in the cold winter months -- seems like a great Unseelie House to show the nuance possible with an Unseelie character.

The Shadow Court split up makes sense if you consider the C20 a continuation of 2E, and believe the earlier Shadow Court had been Balor, Ailil, and Leanhaum accepting Thallain, but the arrival of the other Houses (Varich, Aesin, and Daireann all expressed anti-Thallain and anti-Balor opinions in Book of Lost Houses) and then the Evanescence threw everything up in arms. Sevartal were not part of the Shadow Court 2E, and I think the surfacing of a Thallain version of Sidhe would certainly be enough to cause a Shadow Court reorganization that would split the Black Court and the Old Guard. The New Generation Shadow Court makes sense in the idea that Unseelie are supposed to be independent, forward-looking, and willing to accept the harsh truths of the world as opposed to Seelie, and makes sense based on the old 2E stuff that a lot of commoners went Unseelie due to dissatisfaction with Seelie conservative leaders.

Balor and Leanhaum seem like straight up villains to me still, and for my game I have them pretty much in the Black Court trying to wrest power from Thallain, with everyone else from the Seelie Court to the Old Guard Shadow Court understanding that Thallain are nightmares and a threat.

I find this immensely more interesting to play than the idea that the Unseelie nobility is all just fronting for the Shadow Court which is basically being manipulated by Balor and Thallain.

[Guest]

I really liked the Unseelie Houses in C20.

[Konradleijon]

Thanks like The Allili was like the only playable here Unseelie house because they weren’t Nephandi level evil.

Tell Book of lost houses came out,

But yeah it makes sense you don’t want half of a year to be ruled by the Unseelie because they are monsters. That horribly emotionaly abuse people, as something with clinical depression ravaging is very scary to me. And any one that regularly takes part in it are monsters.

[Guest]

Thanks like The Allili was like the only playable here Unseelie house because they weren’t Nephandi level evil.

Tell Book of lost houses came out,

But yeah it makes sense you don’t want half of a year to be ruled by the Unseelie because they are monsters. That horribly emotionaly abuse people, as something with clinical depression ravaging is very scary to me. And any one that regularly takes part in it are monsters.

I understand. I have it too. And I agree with you. The Leanhaun are not particularly good to their lovers if every passionate fling ends with the artist being a burned out husk.

[Ragnell]

Thanks like The Allili was like the only playable here Unseelie house because they weren’t Nephandi level evil.

Tell Book of lost houses came out,

But yeah it makes sense you don’t want half of a year to be ruled by the Unseelie because they are monsters. That horribly emotionaly abuse people, as something with clinical depression ravaging is very scary to me. And any one that regularly takes part in it are monsters.

Oh me too. It's another quirk I have an ST, I just have Unseelie characters pick musing thresholds and keep ravaging as a thing villain NPCs do. Luckily I haven't had any players that want to use ravaging, but I have had players want to be Unseelie, and there's nothing that says they ALL ravage.