When does a Chimera become a Fae?

[Shakanaka]

Whether Fae or Adhene, it would seem they are classified different from Chimera; despite both these species (Fae and Chimera) being born from complex dreams, stories, common beliefs, or even further primordial (primordials being things like the Fae Gods of the Tuatha, Elder Darks, and other such entities) dynamisms. Can a Chimera ever be a Fae or do Fae simply just happen overtime?

[Damian May]

Whether Fae or Adhene, it would seem they are classified different from Chimera; despite both these species (Fae and Chimera) being born from complex dreams, stories, common beliefs, or even further primordial (primordials being things like the Fae Gods of the Tuatha, Elder Darks, and other such entities) dynamisms. Can a Chimera ever be a Fae or do Fae simply just happen overtime?

This is kinda covered in C20 where Wolpertinger were once Chimera but have become Fae, the Resurgence allowing their transition from Chimera to Kith.

[Eldagusto]

In the Dark Ages you could Sain Sprites (chimera of the time) and they would evolve into Firstborn.

[Shakanaka]

Yea but D:AF is a slightly different universe than CTD. Though this is an interesting concept to incorporate into CTD, maybe nobles would be able to Sain Chimera into Fae.. but though I really doubt it however. This feat seems like something Fae Gods would be able to do, not regular Fae.

This is kinda covered in C20 where Wolpertinger were once Chimera but have become Fae, the Resurgence allowing their transition from Chimera to Kith.

Ah, this is great info to read later.

EDIT: This Fae seems to be in the simple "Other Kith" section all the way in the back of the book. The blurb on them is very sparse. How popular in folklore or common stories could Wolpertingers be to at the time in Germany of the 1969 post-launch of the space-shuttle? Even as little this feat is, it goes some precedence for some Chimera becoming Fae.. but I supposed they'd have to be common ever current Chimera that consistently spawn and aren't one off things from individual imaginings and dreams.

[Gryffon15]

Generally speaking it seems to be that Fae develop over time as chimerical forms congrate into firstborn entities which can then further transition into Denizens, and Kithain or Thallain depending on their allegiances and preference for Dream Glamour or Nightmare Glamour.

Changelings as they exist currently are adaptions from the firstborn of F: DA who because of the progression of the Sundering and eventual Shattering were forced to flee into Arcadia or undergo the Changeling Way en masse.

It seems from the Wolpertinger that great torrents of glamour can trigger the transition but I think it would be more accurate to say that when a dreamed concept aggregates enough concentrated attention to develop an individual form and propagate forward it has the capacity to develop into a kith.

[Shakanaka]

I thought any Fae that's native to the Dreaming only and never went under the Changing Way is a Denizen (True Fae)? Aren't the Firstborn (aka general Fae Gods such as the Fomorians and Tuatha) the ones who made the regular Fae? D:AF when I read it seemed like a slightly alternate take on Changeling than C:TD itself because it had wildly different mechanics and lore.

[Gryffon15]

Dark Ages: Fae is radically different but that’s because it’s set prior to the Shattering and thus the nature of Fae existence was radically different then it is in the modern day. It’s a case of how Fae history has progressed and the Fae themselves have adapted.

All Fae are ultimately native to the Dreaming and through the primordial fae (Elder Dark & Enlightened Ones; Fomorians & Tuatha, Titans & Olympians, etc.) who produced the firstborn. These firstborn fae then either moved closer towards humanity after the Sundering began and would eventually become the thallain & kithain or they moved closer towards the Dreaming after the Sundering began and would eventually become the Denizens, who do more closely resemble the original firstborn then modern changelings do.

The Thallain & Kithain are firstborn fae who underwent the Changeling Way to maintain their proximity to earth and material existence. They went down a different evolutionary path then Denizens but they ultimately have the same origins amongst the firstborn generated by the Elder Dark first and afterwards the Enlightened Ones.

[Shakanaka]

Ah, now I get. Thanks for clearing it up!

[Damian May]

See also Lycians in the C20 Players Guide for Chimera that are approaching the Changeling state from a different angle.

[Gryffon15]

No worries! Glad I was able to help!

[Eldagusto]

Saining is a crucial part of being a Changeling, my theory is Kiths are artificial and a post shattering invention stabilizing Fae into Kith archetypes. Some of the books describe Chimera as being more awake and real through their connection with Changelings. Like Chimerical Companions have some sort of Awakening when a companion. In my games I have Chimera able to swear an oath of Fealty/Citizenship to Changelings to become citizens of Kingdoms and Duchies and the like. So Changelings have a level of dynamism potential and power that chimera don’t have and it’s a godlike feat to uplift them purposely. Kiths of Arcadia by Charlie Cantrel has Renegade Cogs which are newly made one off Changelings that are essentially constructs that accidentally became Changelings. In an interview he did mention they don’t reincarnate though so they need some more off to be more then transistory.

[Prometheas]

Saining is a crucial part of being a Changeling, my theory is Kiths are artificial and a post shattering invention stabilizing Fae into Kith archetypes. Some of the books describe Chimera as being more awake and real through their connection with Changelings. Like Chimerical Companions have some sort of Awakening when a companion. In my games I have Chimera able to swear an oath of Fealty/Citizenship to Changelings to become citizens of Kingdoms and Duchies and the like. So Changelings have a level of dynamism potential and power that chimera don’t have and it’s a godlike feat to uplift them purposely. Kiths of Arcadia by Charlie Cantrel has Renegade Cogs which are newly made one off Changelings that are essentially constructs that accidentally became Changelings. In an interview he did mention they don’t reincarnate though so they need some more off to be more then transistory.

This has been gone over in one of the changeling books. The Modern changelings are a result of DA Fae abusing echoes as anti-Fae weapons on each other, to the point that things spiral out of control and they end up loosing most of their power as the "background radiation" sets in.

Banality is essentially a curse that the ancient fae brought on themselves from abusing a weapon they didn't fully understand.

[Eldagusto]

This has been gone over in one of the changeling books. The Modern changelings are a result of DA Fae abusing echoes as anti-Fae weapons on each other, to the point that things spiral out of control and they end up loosing most of their power as the "background radiation" sets in.

Banality is essentially a curse that the ancient fae brought on themselves from abusing a weapon they didn't fully understand.

Not Quite, Echoes were humanity's doing and it seemed to be an Antithesis of Oaths. Banality is the belief of humans turned against the Fae and Glamour is the belief of humanity reaped for the benefit of the Fae.

[Prometheas]

Not Quite, Echoes were humanity's doing and it seemed to be an Antithesis of Oaths. Banality is the belief of humans turned against the Fae and Glamour is the belief of humanity reaped for the benefit of the Fae.

Actually, very quite. One of the things humans learned to do with their mastery of echoes was the ability baptize changelings(the DA fae version) so that they lost their fae half. While most fae regarded this as tragic, a few enterprising fae found that this process would leave a "spiritual hole" that they found they could use to turn these people into what were essentially anti-fae nukes and used them in warfare against each other.

The problem with this was that they ended up tainting the entire western world with echoes to the point that they caused the shattering to happen.

[Shakanaka]

Eh like I said before, it's kinda iffy to say Dark Age: Fae and Changeling: The Dreaming are actually the same. Banality was the reason for the Shattering, not Echoes.. which is something purely from DA:F.