If Half of Asia has no Stewards of the Dreaming...

[Eldagusto]

Happy Turkey Day!

So If Hsien aren't beings normally aware of the Dreaming, except when in their True Forms, then wouldn't the Changelings in all the other Continents be going there to establish Freeholds and the like?

My personal headcanon is Hsien are only overwhelmingly dominant in half of Asia. I have Hsien represent only the Fae who were aligned with Heaven, there are independents but were the minority, and thus most of Fae aligned with the Yin and Yang Realms and they never had the Mist Covered Faerylands that became the Dreaming. So their version of the Shattering was more tepid.

So China they reign supreme with Dreaming Fae being on the periphery in small numbers, most having left for the corners of the Middle Kingdom to avoid the divine draft. Neighboring countries like Vietnam and Thailand start growing more and more Changeling dense, with India being the true middle ground of Half Hsien and Half Changelings, and the Island Nations like the Philippines and Japan being locations were a number of the Fae hid in to escape Heaven. Most of the Inanimae became Shinma Hsien, but they are the only Fae really left alone in the Middle Kingdom and thus they are the ones most likely for Chimera to interact with.

But with the Shattering spreading around the world it had a different effect in Asia, sort of the opposite of Australia where the Dreaming was in its most Primordial State Asia I see as having had the Yin and Yang Realms mostly take the roles of the Dreaming, as the Wyld lands of Mist became Tamed extra Early in the Middle Kingdom, in the Age of the Wan Xian. So Glens were the majority of the places of Power for the Dreaming and they often were turned into Dragons Nests. And without Changelings the Chimera were usually drifting into the Dreaming rather then staying in the Autumn World and Dying. But with the rest of the World's Fae undertaking the Changeling Way I have it the local Dreaming Environment sort of wakes up/comes to new life as Changelings migrate from the West with the Kithain, the Oceans with the Mer, and other parts of the East with the Gallain like the Devas of India or the Djinn of India or Yokai of Japan.

But since the Hsien aren't competing over Dreamers and they already pretty much share Dragon's Nest with the Rest of the Shen the Changelings who arrive aren't really driven out as harshly as say the Wan Gui chase out the Kindred or the Garou and Hengeyokai. But that also means they have to made Fresh Freeholds from scratch, which I can see the Hsien appreciating as they essentially are cultivating new Dragon's Nests from areas that are only the glimmer of the possibly of becoming Dragon's Nests without them. So mostly these Areas would only be claimed by Mages cultivating Nodes, or the much rarer case of Hengeyokai Birthing New Caerns.

This means Asia works as sort of the New Frontier for the Kithain and Gallain, with Areas with Ties to the West being the Footholds/bases of operation to expand into the area, Places like the Philippines, Hong Kong, and Singapore and Taiwan, while Japan only really started to attract Changeling Attention beyond the Yokai after the end of the 2nd World War.

But a big part of why Kithain are taking note is because of their Mortal Kin mingling around the World, so Yokai were born in large numbers in Brazil and Hawaii, and Kithain were born in large Numbers in Hong Kong and the Philippines. And the Merfolk perhaps being the biggest Dreaming Superpower in Asia.

What are thoughts on how the Kithain and Gallain interact with the Lands of the Hsien?

[Erinys]

I like this, but have little useful to add. Back when I contributed to the Ten Thousand Things project on ShadownEssence, I had a list of "little people"-style tales that could potentially be fae, changelings, inanimae, and/or denizens. So far, including Kiths written up online, I've got:

• 1 from Tibet (Frog-Husbands, but I lean towards them being possessed animals, maybe even animal-bodied changelings)
• 1 from Manchuria or Siberia or north China (Fu Sang Kuo)
• 1 from China (Pénghoú), and maybe another, but I'm told Fei Fei more resemble the thralls of an Earthborn
• 1 from Korea (Dokkebi)
• 1 from the Ainu (Koro-pok-guru)
• 5 or 6 Japanese (Akaname, Awabi/Bonze/Mer, Kodama/Hōkō, Shōjō, Yamajiji/Yamauba, Zashiki-Warashi) +Kappa and other chimera (someone wrote an Oni Kith, but I think they should stay as Underworld monsters)
• 6 from the Philippines (Danag, Diwatas, Kama-Kama+thallain Chanak, Kapre/Bawa/Agta/Ungo, Mantyo, Tamawo)
• 3 from Thailand (Khon Tun and Kinnanorn that may be Umbral spirits, Ton Mai that may be inanimae or Glade Children)
• 1 from Cambodia (Arak)
• 2 from Malaysia (Badi, Orang Bunian)
• 1 from Bali (Leyak)
• 1 from the Moluccas (Hoga)

Granted my sources were rather poor and I haven't done follow-up research yet, but China does have sparse material compared to Japan and the Philippines. I wasn't able to find much for several regions, however.

[Konradleijon]

I’m my head cannon the Hsein are totally different from Asian changelings.

Like how the ku-Jin are totally separate from Cainitds.

[Erinys]

I usually consider Hsien unrelated to Fae, or only distantly related. But I still think every human society would generate something in the Dreaming.

[Dataweaver]

You might want to check out the (entirely unofficial) Sei.

[MythAdvocate]

For my own use, I would use Denizens and Inanimae heavily to reflect Asian fae. I could even see Asian Inanimae remaining active and far healthier than their Western versions. The Denizens of China would be quite powerful, and require no tinkering beyond regional terms for them.

[Spook359]

I decided that Japan has its own brand of Kithain, First you had not one, but twos sets of noble kiths, the Tennin and kunitsukami representing Buddhism and Shinto respectively. Now the weird thing about these noble kiths is that they are barred from rulership by the Dreaming. Instead these two groups are the ones that can officially create Noble Houses. Coincidentally these noble houses all had a big old war happening contemporaneously with the Sengoku Jidai. The shattering hit and the Tennin and Kunitsukami were forced to retreat to Arcadia, leaving the noble houses to fight among themselves with no one able to legitimize new houses when old ones fell.

Since the moon landing the two noble kiths return to find the surviving houses in shambles and have been in damage control mode for several decades until things start to stabilize.

The other common kiths were
Kitsune (no relation to changing breed)
Tanuki
Tengu
Kappa
Oni (these five are obvious givens in a Japanese Fae setting.)
Nopperabo (faceless jump scares)
Jorogumo (spider wives)
Nuribotoke (stern moral enforcers)
Koro-pok-guru (woodland little people)

Obviously not an exhaustive list but the most numerous

To add to this there is a strange breed of manifest Chimera native to Japan the Tsukumogami, who pair up with humans, and lend out their services to the Yokai and Hsien courts.

[Gryffon15]

Your idea Eldagusto is honestly very similar to my own ideas on this subject, just far better elaborated then what I had blending around in my own head.

I also agree with others that Hsien are related to Kithain as much as Wan Kuei are related to Kindred, barely at all outside of vague conceptual similarities in certain qualities.

I’d found a number of fan kiths, such as the City of Angels stuff, but I’d also always had the vague idea of having the animal kiths have similarly manifesting changeling kiths that represented the minority of the groups but stewarded the Dreaming in the Middld Kingdom.

I also agree that the Shattering would happen very differently in the Middle Kingdom. I’m tempted to say it happened considerably later, perhaps triggering sometime in the 1800s or 1900s with the Dreaming largely remaining the domain of country Changelings throughout a long Sundering while quarters of Chinese governance and political life as well as festival grounds and holy places formed strong Hsien blocks. Of course the reason I struggle with saying this is that folklore of the fair folk continued in Europe well past the 1450s but that represented a translation to the ‘modern age’ and coincided or followed major disasters such as the Crusades, Inquisition, Witch Hunts, Black Death, etc. So perhaps something using a blend of the Opium Wars (and the century of humiliation, as I believe it’s called in China) along with perhaps the traumas surrounding WWII & the Chinese Civil War could be used as grounding points for the Shattering there, though the Dreaming had always been more a country thing in China given the Hsien majority power.

[Dataweaver]

I'd agree with the Shattering notion if it was a localized phenomenon. But from what I gather, it was global — which means that changelings outside of Europe (such as North America and the Middle Kingdom) got hammered by something they never saw coming.

[Gryffon15]

Yeah, I just don’t think that the Shattering being one single global event is ludicrous and somewhat euro-centric. It would make more sense to me if every major region saw the Shattering strike it at a time appropriate for its own native Dreaming.

[MythAdvocate]

I also agree that the Shattering would happen very differently in the Middle Kingdom. I’m tempted to say it happened considerably later, perhaps triggering sometime in the 1800s or 1900s with the Dreaming largely remaining the domain of country Changelings throughout a long Sundering while quarters of Chinese governance and political life as well as festival grounds and holy places formed strong Hsien blocks. Of course the reason I struggle with saying this is that folklore of the fair folk continued in Europe well past the 1450s but that represented a translation to the ‘modern age’ and coincided or followed major disasters such as the Crusades, Inquisition, Witch Hunts, Black Death, etc. So perhaps something using a blend of the Opium Wars (and the century of humiliation, as I believe it’s called in China) along with perhaps the traumas surrounding WWII & the Chinese Civil War could be used as grounding points for the Shattering there, though the Dreaming had always been more a country thing in China given the Hsien majority power.

I completely agree with this. Though I could see most of the fae of China being Adhene of varying sorts, perhaps only gaining access to the Autumn world in certain places and times. The wealth of legends surrounding spirits very similar to the Denizens would grant them great leeway.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah, I just don’t think that the Shattering being one single global event is ludicrous and somewhat euro-centric. It would make more sense to me if every major region saw the Shattering strike it at a time appropriate for its own native Dreaming.

Heaven forbid that Europe manages to do something that has a global impact.

Let me rephrase: heaven forbid that Europe manages to screw everything up for everyone.

[Eldagusto]

The Animal Kiths, an Idea I always loved and I like more with the idea they have more an opportunity in a Kithain vacuum region, is something I should develop more. I already have Kith Gallain versions of things like Kitsune Nekomata and Tanuki so maybe I will have it some of them are animal changelings. And Myth how did I forget about the Adhene, it makes helluva lot of sense that they would help explain a lot of the kith Vacuum in asia, they already have a precedence of them being dominant in some of the world, like having Greek and Indian Adhene.

I'd agree with the Shattering notion if it was a localized phenomenon. But from what I gather, it was global — which means that changelings outside of Europe (such as North America and the Middle Kingdom) got hammered by something they never saw coming.

Well it seems the Shattering hit critical mass and started in Europe but the wave of the event spread across the world at different rates. Like it seemed to spread from Western Europe across Eastern Europe and Africa first, and then slower into Americas and Australia later with the Europeans. The Ocean probably somewhere in the middle both underwater and Polynesia.

Either Asia got the Shattering with the Black Plague and the shattering happened everywhere it touched immediately or it spread from the end of the Plague from Western Europe to the rest of the Plague touched areas.

Also while on the Subject how would you handle the Shattering in Nonhuman touched Areas like the North and South Pole? Would it be like it was brought with the first explorers? Or would it maybe be like I first suggested that maybe without local Kithain cultivating the Faeryland that converts to dreaming its more the rest of the world had a Shattering sending the Mists into the Dreaming and areas without fae to Shatter its a more benign effect with just the Dreaming Paradigm encroaching into the primordial territory, maybe like with Australian Dreamtime? So it just makes for the creation of new Chimera and the development of Dreaming associated areas since they would only have Glens, and a few secret Santa Freeholds before along with Mer Grottos.

[Konradleijon]

I'd agree with the Shattering notion if it was a localized phenomenon. But from what I gather, it was global — which means that changelings outside of Europe (such as North America and the Middle Kingdom) got hammered by something they never saw coming.

The whole shattering thing seems highly Eurocentric. Like lots of old WW

[Erinys]

I read somewhere that the Shattering came to Hawai'i with Captain Cook. If that's canon, it would suggest it spread with European colonialism, which makes the most sense to me.

I can believe the Shattering spread with the Black Plague, as far as it went in Asia and Africa (unless there were areas with a low death-toll). 1350 is also, coincidentally, when the Mississippian civilization got destroyed/genocided by angry Croatan werewolves, so that could support the Shattering, or at least the Sundering, coming to the southeast States area. The Uktena wiped out a chunk of the Anasazi around 1300, too.