If Half of Asia has no Stewards of the Dreaming...

[Dataweaver]

My main point is that the shattering ought to be something that's has a single starting point. The notion that every changelings society in the world independently triggered their own separate Shatterings stretches credulity.

I personally don't really care who started it. Just that it started in one place. It's been established to have started in europe, but if you want to retcon that to the Middle Kingdom, or australia, or wherever, I wouldn't mind.

[Gryffon15]

@MythAdvocate
-I wouldn’t personally go with the adhene universally, but I can certainly see the logic. I can definitely see the Adhene/Denizen style entities picking up certain folklore archetype, although I think that kiths for the Animal Court of Hsien and inanimae for the Elemental Court of Hsien work well as contemporaries for the most part.

@Dataweaver
-If you want to go that route, that’s fine, but it’s not personally my preferred method. I just prefer to have the Shatterings (& Resurgences) for that matter be regionally specific affairs, although Europe is involved rather often as the catalyst of radical and sudden change. I usually have the Shattering reach the Americas soon after the Columbian Exchange, inspired by others writing in the area, but I’d probably apply the same idea to other regions as well, though I’d need to consider when best to have such events occur.

@Eldagusto
-That’s an interesting question, about those low human contact areas.

I’d be tempted to say that those places are/were largely barren of the Dreaming except for Inanimae presences. Less so in the North Pole with certain levels of presence from indigenous peoples who would nourish an associated Dreaming but the southern pole would probably remain the sheer domain of Inanimae. I imagine those icy Dreamings would have begun to be pushed back following waves of explorers generating dreams of mysterious lands, adventure, and discovery.

What happens next I think would be interesting to explore and might have room for good MtA crossover potential. Theoretically these places could have Dreaming’s so untouched that they would spring to life before the earliest settlers with chimerical landscapes and wonders. However obviously that’s not the case today, so something must have happened to limit these places to loose dreams of adventure and scientific discovery.

Perhaps the Inanimae, long untouched by the Human Dreaming, reacted cruelly with a backlash of banality hoping to drive the humans away and not face their own War of Trees. Perhaps the poles have always been homes of Banality and they encountered heart’s of Banality there and/or the banality twisted the native inanimae into dauntain who resist human/dream invasion. Perhaps the poles became focal points for a battle between the Etherites and Technocrats of Mage and their competition for the grasp of consensus required the Technocrats to maintain the poles as inhabitable ice traps and attack the Etherite theories of lost cities, wonders, or openings to a hollow earth. This battle for reality may leave the marks of a battle between banality and glamour at the poles to this day.

[Dataweaver]

I don't think we're disagreeing all that much. We're both agreeing that it happened first in Europe, and happened elsewhere at some time after contact with europe.

[Erinys]

Yeah, I think if it spreads from Europe via plague and colonialism, it still starts in Europe. It just wouldn't be happening instantly. But for example, there's only 142 years between 1350 and 1492. In the meantime, perhaps there were years of continued Black Plague spreading. After 1492, colonialism kept spreading for a while.

As for Antarctica, my first thought was of a place of horror and nightmares, untouched by banality, where "Arcadian" Ratkin interact with ice-horrors and eldritch Fae unconstrained by the slightest reference to anything human. Then again, with no humans maybe it's the ultimate banality: a place with no dreams at all.

And now my next random thought is, What about the Moon and other planets? Surely there were or are faeries on the moon. Even without human inhabitants, the Moon has attracted dreams about it since humans began. Where did they go? I'd think Darkside Moonbase would have brought the Shattering to the Moon, except that settlement predates 1969 so that doesn't really seem to work.

And if dreams about the Moon created Lunar fae, surely there'd be Solar fae as well, right? Perhaps it's one of the Dragonkin homelands.

[No One of Consequence]

IIRC, Asia's issues stemmed from the Wheel of Ages and the inevitable turning toward the Age of Iron.

My biggest issue with the Hsien - and a lot of the East Asian stuff - was how Sino-centric it was, to the point where a lot of the more interesting stuff from Japan, Vietnam, and the like were ignored or plastered over.

I tend to prefer Japan to have its own Yokai/Yosei, the Philippines the Engkanto and Duwende, Korea the Dokkaebi, India the Yaksha, and so on.

[Eldagusto]

I am a fan of the Moon having Alien Inanimae of all sorts, I also like the Countless Dreams take on it. I want Changelings to establish secret moon Freeholds before humanity makes bases there.

Antarctica is supposed to have secret deep and dark in the World of Darkness. There are supposed to be hidden ruins buried in the Ice with a hidden Black Spiral Superhive and Vhajunka (I have a project with alien beings like Vhajunka and Chulorviah undergo the Changeling Way) settlement. It was also supposed to have been warmer in World of Darkness Prehistory before some secret calamity caused it to drift to colder climates, and a Great Wyrm entity and Absimiliard are said to sleep under there, they might be the same entity referenced. It would fit if it was Absimiliard sleeping in the Ocean right off of Antarctica as he is said to be in Torpor both in the Ocean and Antarctica.

[Eldagusto]

IIRC, Asia's issues stemmed from the Wheel of Ages and the inevitable turning toward the Age of Iron.

My biggest issue with the Hsien - and a lot of the East Asian stuff - was how Sino-centric it was, to the point where a lot of the more interesting stuff from Japan, Vietnam, and the like were ignored or plastered over.

I tend to prefer Japan to have its own Yokai/Yosei, the Philippines the Engkanto and Duwende, Korea the Dokkaebi, India the Yaksha, and so on.

I was considering the Duwende to be a Kith that is apart of a bunch of Fae Sects because they seem to have been spread by the Iberian Peninsula and fully embraced by many nation's folklore.

[Erinys]

Well, Dwende is a Spanish name, but the Philippine version are called Kama-Kama and Nuno sa Punso, so I've always thought they have an indigenous origin.

Re: Antarctica's past, it was much warmer in the geologic past, millions of years ago. I'm not sure there would be any Dinosaur King ruins left, but BSDs and Vhujunka make sense. Vhujunka changelings, though? Ewwwww.

Eldagusto, you've written a ton of homebrew. Do you have it up on a website somewhere?

[Dataweaver]

IIRC, Asia's issues stemmed from the Wheel of Ages and the inevitable turning toward the Age of Iron.

My biggest issue with the Hsien - and a lot of the East Asian stuff - was how Sino-centric it was, to the point where a lot of the more interesting stuff from Japan, Vietnam, and the like were ignored or plastered over.

I tend to prefer Japan to have its own Yokai/Yosei, the Philippines the Engkanto and Duwende, Korea the Dokkaebi, India the Yaksha, and so on.

Agreed. One thing that I like about the premise of this thread is that it lets you keep the Hsien around if you want, but it isn't to the exclusion of more culturally specific Asian Kiths.

[Eldagusto]

Well, Dwende is a Spanish name, but the Philippine version are called Kama-Kama and Nuno sa Punso, so I've always thought they have an indigenous origin.

Re: Antarctica's past, it was much warmer in the geologic past, millions of years ago. I'm not sure there would be any Dinosaur King ruins left, but BSDs and Vhujunka make sense. Vhujunka changelings, though? Ewwwww.

Eldagusto, you've written a ton of homebrew. Do you have it up on a website somewhere?

I just used Google docs, like a decade ago I lost things because I just used Word docs. But I got Word again and I am trying to compose my scattered notes into PDFs and then uplift some PDFs into Vault products with some polish. My take is some Kiths have spread across Multiple Homelands for their subkiths.like Menanggal(Philippines)/Penanggalan(Malaysia)/Soucouyant(Caribbean). The Duende is probably an Iberian Boggan/Redcap/Nocker related Kith and they have native family in the Philippines and Bellaterra.

I got so many Kiths, Gallain, Hsien, Inanimae, Adhene (need more Adhene), Houses I have in the early phase. Changeling has been even more prone for me homebrewing then Exalted.

[Damian May]

[*]6 from the Philippines (Danag, Diwatas, Kama-Kama+thallain Chanak, Kapre/Bawa/Agta/Ungo, Mantyo, Tamawo)[*]3 from Thailand (Khon Tun and Kinnanorn that may be Umbral spirits, Ton Mai that may be inanimae or Glade Children)[*]1 from Cambodia (Arak)[*]2 from Malaysia (Badi, Orang Bunian)[*]1 from Bali (Leyak)[*]1 from the Moluccas (Hoga)[/LIST]Granted my sources were rather poor and I haven't done follow-up research yet, but China does have sparse material compared to Japan and the Philippines. I wasn't able to find much for several regions, however.

Leyak are more witches and sorcerers who make a pact with Rangda to become Life Aspected Hungry Dead in WoD terms.

Orang Bunian ( Malaysia and Indonesia ) and Diwata etc. I'm half tempted to just call Sidhe with some slight Kubera influences.

Arak is kind of a general term for immaterial spirits in Cambodia with the forest arak being seen as malevolent and village arak being seen as mostly benevolent, they can possess people and are generally interceeded with by ' sorcerers' and ' special musicians.

There are a whole bunch of Standard Kith that could, with slight adjustments, reflect many of the Phillipines Engkanto, Duwende and so. I recommend https://www.aswangproject.com/creatu...ore-mythology/ as it references all its entries so you can chase them back to see if there are doubled up regional names for the same being.

[Damian May]

I just used Google docs, like a decade ago I lost things because I just used Word docs. But I got Word again and I am trying to compose my scattered notes into PDFs and then uplift some PDFs into Vault products with some polish. My take is some Kiths have spread across Multiple Homelands for their subkiths.like Menanggal(Philippines)/Penanggalan(Malaysia)/Soucouyant(Caribbean). The Duende is probably an Iberian Boggan/Redcap/Nocker related Kith and they have native family in the Philippines and Bellaterra.

I got so many Kiths, Gallain, Hsien, Inanimae, Adhene (need more Adhene), Houses I have in the early phase. Changeling has been even more prone for me homebrewing then Exalted.

I'm definetely a fan of tying the vast majority of ' house brownies' from hundreds of different cultures together....probably with their own whisper-network that links different regions.

I don't think I'll ever get behind making the various sorcerer who seperates body parts ( Krasue, Pennanglan, ahp, balan-balan, mjertovjec, Tlahuelpuchi, Chon-chon etc.) to suck blood or organs into Changelings, but as Hungry Dead are a world-wide phenomenon in MyWod just making them Life Aspected versions of Hungry Dead works better for me.

[Erinys]

The Kama-Kama/Nuno sa Punso/Duende I know of isn't a house brownie, it lives in the forest.

[Damian May]

The Kama-Kama/Nuno sa Punso/Duende I know of isn't a house brownie, it lives in the forest.

It does, sorry. I was making a more general statement not about Duwende/Nuno sa Punso.

[Erinys]

Actually I'm responding to Eldagusto comparing it to Boggans. I think the Spanish word Duende/Dwende is applied to more than one Philippine kith.