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Changeling The Dreaming / Hsien

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  • Possessed
    replied
    I think there is plenty of room for both Changelings and Hsien in the WoD, for the most part both will stay I their own circles anyway. Personally I am rather pleased C20 didn’t take the V20 way of ignoring, and thus not updating, a gameline that many people still play and love, especially since KotE is the most crossover friendly WoD game there is.

    Here is my solution for KotE btw. It would deserve to get a 20th anniversary edition of itke own.
    The main thing they'd have to do is commit to any time "nostalgia-value" conflicts with "not being Orientalist douche-nozzles", the latter needs to win. The Dharmas, disciplines, Hells, and mechanics around balance and extremes are interesting enough to give it a shot IMHO. Some

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    To be honest, while I like the Hsien, they don't go well with Changeling at all. That isn't a bad thing by itself, though, just means that another avenue could be followed to address this.

    On one hand, the Player's Guide take on kiths worldwide is precisely what should have been done to Asian fae (preferably with a better treatment than just "unified formless Asia"), scrapping the Hsien completely from Changeling.

    At the same time, with surprisingly few tweaks and no change in concept the Hsien would work amazingly well as a strange type of Fallen. They're already pretty much this: servants from God that got banished as a punishment. They are not the same as a Demon, because they committed a minor crime in comparison (just plain hubris instead of direct insubordination), were kept within the hierarchy, and it happened at a later time, but conceptually and mechanically they're still far more similar to Demon than Changeling.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I wouldn't mind some tweaks to the existing Kiths to make them more inherently diverse — say, by introducing minor variants of each that swap out one or the other of the birthrights they have (talking off the top of my head here; I may have the exact name wrong) for something similar that could more really apply to other cultures than the “default” one. And/or some alternate weaknesses. The two kinds of Sidhe presented in C20 could be presented as one example of this: the Arcadian Sidhe are the default, and the Autumn Sidhe are a variant that swaps or a Birthright and the weakness to present something that's largely the same as the Arcadian Sidhe but subtly different. But do more of that: if neither the Arcadian Sidhe nor the Autumn Sidhe are quite right for your “fae nobility” from another culture, introduce another variant that is. And likewise with every other Kith. And yeah; coming up with Courts for other parts of the world would be great.

    We don't actually need the Hsien; and I'd much rather see the existing Kithain diversified beyond their stereotypes than to try to cram everything “asian fae” into the Hsien. If you want to keep the Hsien, by all means go for it; but let than stand on their own, instead of being grafted into Changeling.

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  • MythAdvocate
    replied
    You could just say that the Asian Fae are core kiths interpreted through their mortal hosts culture. The Kami are much like Sidhe, Henge are much like the Pooka, Akaname like the Sluagh, Oni much like Trolls, etc. The core kiths are largely meant to be archetypes rather than races, though some retained their old distinction like the Sidhe and Satyrs, but most adapted during the Interregnum.

    These "re-skinned," Asian Kithain would likely be culturally distinct, and likely horrified at their comparisons to Western Fae. But therein are stories to be told.

    This is not a perfect fix, but one that would be pretty easy to do. And this kind of re-skinning has a fair amount of pre-existing examples in Werewolf with the Hakken / Shadow-Lords, Kumo / Ananasi, and the Tengu / Corax, to name a few.

    Now I am thinking on Noble Houses of Japan and the Philippines. Perhaps ones more attuned to the Seasons, Nature and the traditions of Shinto.


    On the Subject of 8 Million Dreams
    Before that book came out with its depiction of the Shen, the internet was full of drawings by young folk of their Pooka as Manga and Anime style cat and fox people. There were heaps of drawings and cartoons of these whimsical creatures all over the place. It was fun and silly. There were also Anime style Nocker gadgets, with sleek mecha fighting monsters. After that book came out, all of that disappeared.
    It may be a coincidence. But sad nonetheless.
    Last edited by MythAdvocate; 08-18-2021, 05:09 PM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I don't think of Tanuki as spirits. They're shapeshifters, not unlike the Pooka. I kind of wish that the Hsien had been left out of C20, to free up the various Oriental cultures to do the Changeling thing without having to mess with the decisions that were made for the Hsien — much like V20 never addressed the Kindred of the East.

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  • AnubisXy
    replied
    Hsien are really cool. I wish that idea of playing spirits had been expanded to the rest of the WoD and that we have Changelings living in Asia. I think there's plenty of room for both splats in the world.

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  • Damian May
    replied
    Originally posted by Astromancer View Post

    True, but even sadder, because the Hsien weren't brought out well they didn't even try to explore the fairies of Japan or the rest of Asia. I know that Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam, and India, all have fairy lore of their own. The fate of the Hsien doomed all exploration of any of that.
    For Indonesia at least Orang Bunian can be fairly well represented with reskinned slightly adjusted Sidhe. There's a lot of similarities.

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  • Distant Choir
    replied
    Originally posted by Astromancer View Post

    True, but even sadder, because the Hsien weren't brought out well they didn't even try to explore the fairies of Japan or the rest of Asia. I know that Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam, and India, all have fairy lore of their own. The fate of the Hsien doomed all exploration of any of that.

    It is a big shame. On the one hand, I really like the unique system of playing a Shinma and the sort of world state they're in...on the other hand, they eat up a lot of space that mainline Kithain could have stayed in. It's not really a case of Hsien hunting down Changelings like Wan Kuei did to Cainites, but it's a problem of conceptual space. I somewhat feel this way about some of the other subtypes of Changeling who tend toward the Middle Umbra, but at least then they still operate in the paradigm of banality and glamour.

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  • Amethyst
    replied
    I actually liked the portrayal of the Hsien in C20.

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  • FallenEco
    replied
    There is some Hsien stuff in C20.

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  • YueSidhe
    replied
    Originally posted by Astromancer View Post

    True, but even sadder, because the Hsien weren't brought out well they didn't even try to explore the fairies of Japan or the rest of Asia. I know that Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam, and India, all have fairy lore of their own. The fate of the Hsien doomed all exploration of any of that.

    I really wanted them to have been better introduced. I really liked them.

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  • Astromancer
    replied
    Originally posted by Distant Choir View Post
    It's a shame, I think Hsien are quite interesting and it's unfortunate that a lot of their more specific information is still in Land of Eight Million Dreams.

    But I can totally sympathise that, at their core, they're pretty out of tune for the rest of the game, so we won't be seeing much from them in a while unless it's Storyteller vault stuff.
    True, but even sadder, because the Hsien weren't brought out well they didn't even try to explore the fairies of Japan or the rest of Asia. I know that Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam, and India, all have fairy lore of their own. The fate of the Hsien doomed all exploration of any of that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Distant Choir
    replied
    It's a shame, I think Hsien are quite interesting and it's unfortunate that a lot of their more specific information is still in Land of Eight Million Dreams.

    But I can totally sympathise that, at their core, they're pretty out of tune for the rest of the game, so we won't be seeing much from them in a while unless it's Storyteller vault stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • YueSidhe
    replied
    Originally posted by Damian May View Post
    The only place your going to find new stuff for C20 is on Storytellers Vault ( which is not a bad thing, theres some awesome books on there). Paradox put the kibosh on new material for X20 products a while ago, ( though things may have changed recently as a new book for W20 has been allowed.....but its likely this was just because of all the huge delays on W5 ).
    So there won't be any more "official" books for "Changeling the Dreaming"? I did not know that. I'm pretty disappointed right now.

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  • Damian May
    replied
    The only place your going to find new stuff for C20 is on Storytellers Vault ( which is not a bad thing, theres some awesome books on there). Paradox put the kibosh on new material for X20 products a while ago, ( though things may have changed recently as a new book for W20 has been allowed.....but its likely this was just because of all the huge delays on W5 ).

    Leave a comment:

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