Mage that don't know it

[heroquestelf]

Hey guys, I have a question. I would like to create an NPC for my Mage: The Ascension game who is a Mage, but doesn't know it.

I am looking to create a character that is, in essence, a Virtual Adept, a character that uses science to produce magical effects.

Basically, this guy is working to create the machine (insert dramatic music here), but the guy firmly believes that he is a scientist and an inventor, and does not believe that the machine (insert dramatic music here) actually uses magic to function. The idea being that the guy is essentially a Technomancer, but he doesn't realize it. He is awakened, but untrained.

Would this be possible?

[NicoTheDuck]

I do not think it is possible. Technocrats do not believe in Magick neither but they know they're not Sleepers. The thing is, your character is Awakened. It is in the word definition. He has to be Awakened (literally not asleep) to something. How he considers what he does is defined by his paradigm. Mages are will workers. They influence and change reality with their Will. They are conscious of their acts.

That said, they might not understand what they are doing. But they know they are the source of it. Well, depending on their paradigm, they are the source of their power directly or indirectly. A Chorister could believe his powers come from God the same way a VA can believe it comes from Science and Tech. But in both cases, they know what they do when they use Magick (prayers or programming for instance).

[Heavy Arms]

If he's a member of the Virtual Adepts, he's been trained enough to be exposed to the "truth" even if he doesn't see it that way personally. A technomancer Orphan is certainly possible for this.

There is also the Sleepwalker Flaw if you want something more mechanical. This is a Flaw that represents unusually strong belief in one's own way of doing magic, the higher the rating, the worse the impact this has (all the way to counting as a Sleeper to your own Vulgar magic because you don't believe you could do something that counts as Vulgar). Though I'd be very careful with this if it is meant to be a friendly NPC, because it's a walking penalty to other mages.

[BlueWinds]

Reality is flexible. To be a Mage is to have enough power that your reality is true. He has to know that his eyes were opened to something most people can't see, but in no way does that require him to believe he does magic, or even to believe in magic at all.

I think this is not only eminently possible, but in fact the default. For a technomancer, advanced technology really is how things work. The Machine is what he's working on. There's no magic here for him to be unaware of - it's just hypertech. And, to his point of view, others calling themselves "mages," well, up to him what he thinks they're doing. Clearly it works - maybe it's magic (and thus something different from how he operates), or maybe it's reality hacking using inefficient tools, or maybe...

[heroquestelf]

This guy is actually going to be one of the main antagonists in the game.

The basic setup is that the guy is trying to create a time machine. He is a budding technomage with dots in the Time sphere. In my plot line, the machine works, but the NPC cannot get it to calibrate correctly. What's worse, every time he turns it on it messes with the Tapestry, disrupting ALL magic in the entire surrounding area, making it act strange. The NPC does not realize the side effects the machine is having.

My player character, who is also a Time Mage, is being blamed for the disturbances, and the Technocracy has put a hit out on him. He has to find this NPC and stop him from experimenting with the machine in order to clear his name. I just thought it would be easier to work into the plot line if the NPC did not realize what he was doing. I was going to make him a mad scientist type character.

So I took a look at the Sleepwalker Flaw. This is what I found:

Sleepwalker

(1-4 points) Mage: Revised - Mental Flaw
Magic? What a load of bullshit. No one in his right mind believes in magic. This is the 21st Century. You'd have to be nuts to believe in that stuff.

Unfortunately, your character is nuts. However, his madness is that he doesn't believe in magic no matter how much evidence he sees to the contrary. He rationalizes everything, and even if he can be awakened for a short time by incredibly vulgar magic, the next day he'll remember everything as a weird dream or too much acid, not an earth-shattering revelation of the true nature of reality. He may believe in laser guns and personal jet packs -- after all, that's science -- but he refuses to believe in all the non-scientific bell, book, and candle stuff. Anything outside the Consensus of modern technological society is just bunk as far as your character is concerned.

Or, alternately, your mage believe in magic, faeries, ghosts, and werewolves just fine, but he refuses to believe in this strange thing called science. This world view doesn't make much sense for a resident of the 21st century, but it's a perfectly reasonable perspective for a visitor from the 16th.

Of course, even if your mage's conscious mind is in denial, his Avatar is quite Awake and willing to help with magic and/or technology. After all, just because you don't actually believe that God is going to send angels and flaming chariots to your rescue doesn't mean you shouldn't pray for Him to send them...

As a one-point Flaw, you may only engage in coincidental magic or super-science. Your mage doesn't believe in the vulgar stuff, and he disbelieves it when he sees it. (That is, your character counts as a Sleeper with regards to vulgar magic or super-science.) For a two-point Flaw, your mage doesn't believe in either magic or super-science, and he counts as a Sleeper against both kinds of vulgar Effects. At double the appropriate value, your mage is able to perform vulgar magic and/or super-science, but he counts as a Sleeper with regard to his own Effects. Moreover, he hallucinates a more rational turn of events. ("What do you mean demons dragged him down to Hell? I just said 'Damn you!' and then he dropped one of his ninja smoke grenades and ran off!") Therefore, the mage gets Paradox from his own vulgar Effects even in a sanctum!

Storytellers should be cautious with this Flaw, not allowing players to create min-maxing Technocrats who bring extra Paradox down on their enemies and none on themselves without allowing it to cause them significant problems.

This looks like it would pretty much fit the bill for an NPC who BELIEVES he's doing Science, even though he's doing Magic.

[Just John, Forever...]

I do not think it is possible. Technocrats do not believe in Magick neither but they know they're not Sleepers. The thing is, your character is Awakened. It is in the word definition. He has to be Awakened (literally not asleep) to something. How he considers what he does is defined by his paradigm. Mages are will workers. They influence and change reality with their Will. They are conscious of their acts.

That said, they might not understand what they are doing. But they know they are the source of it. Well, depending on their paradigm, they are the source of their power directly or indirectly. A Chorister could believe his powers come from God the same way a VA can believe it comes from Science and Tech. But in both cases, they know what they do when they use Magick (prayers or programming for instance).

It's entirely possible for a (M)age to be (A)wakened and not "realize" it. That is, they may have an understanding/perception of things that is different, but the degree of difference is totally contextual depending on the (meta)paradigm the player has with the character. (This is particularly the case for some of the (albeit rare) Awakened children who, once adults, think that their "wishcraft" is "real", but the product of a genuine faith/belief/being blessed by the powers-that-be/any number of things. They don't necessarily understand they are "Mages(tm)", nor wholly accept "magic(k)", but just have their Awakening be something that is on the periphery of their understanding and perceptions.)

I made an Orphan back in the 90s who -- to other knowledgeable mages -- would appear to be a VA. His Arete was 2 and stayed that way for some time, but he wound up having 10+ points in Spheres with multiple 2s across the board. He felt he had a deeper perspective of the world a la' computer programming and being very knowledgeable about various subjects, but he never for a moment perceived his Awakened Magic(k)(tm) *as* "magic"... he just thought he was good at reading people and could be persuasive (Mind:1-2), could sometimes bring up remote security images via "secret cameras" that he'd hack into (these "secret cameras" were his mind rationalizing his use of Correspondence:2 to "see", via his monitor, events happening far away and/or in the past (with Time:2 thrown in) from said mysterious footage... though if anyone else were in the room (which was rare, except for the other PC mages), all they'd see is a blank or just code'd screen as he comments on the various "x" going on (and sometimes backhandedly go "Why are you asking whatever? -- can't you see that shit? -- it's right there..."). He knew he was talented, and a genius(!)... but a "mage"? Dafuq you talkin', Willis...?

(The vast majority of mages are, of course, much more aware of their state than that... but it's not an absolute by any means, *especially* when personal paradigms are brought into play.)

[NicoTheDuck]

Characters with personal paradigms (as long as they're meaningful) are valid as well as Orphan characters (though I sometimes feel that too many people put too many things under the label "Orphan". Orphan does not mean "do what the f*** you want") They might not see their deeds as Magick, that is not questionable. But all are aware they're not Sleepers. It's in the name : Awakened. The progression is called Seeking, it is also in the name. Mages are conscious. They might not understand everything but they know part of the Truth. They Awakened when they realized Reality is flexible.

Turn to Sorcerers if you want that kind of NPC or character. An Unawakened Awakened Mage is not a Mage. Not believing that you do Magick is okay, you do Science or Tech. That's okay. It's not knowing that you do what you do that is not okay.

[Bluecho]

As I recall, back in Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade, the Order of Reason operated on the practice of keeping knowledge of Awakened power a secret from a vast majority of members. Those in the "Outer Labyrinth" - whether Awakened or unAwakened - were under the impression in most cases that what they did was merely advanced technology or technique. It was only when an Awakened member got to Arete 4+ that they were permitted into the "Inner Labyrinth", and were informed that they were doing things their unEnlightened brethren couldn't do. That they weren't just operating at the peak of human ability, but actually transcending normal human capabilities.

This is further reflected in what sort of Enlightened Science they could use. Characters in the Outer Labyrinth operated under the "Casual Rule", which meant they could not use their Spheres for Effects that were Vain. Period. An Order of Reason mage had to enter the Inner Labyrinth before the full breadth of their Spheres could be tapped (and even then, simple Order of Reason policy restricted even fully initiated members from using everything a Sphere could do).

This categorical restriction - created by none other than the character's worldview - extended even to perception magick. An Order of Reason mage who was versed in Entropy/Fortune did not see, visually, the flow of destiny around something. They got hunches. An investigator using Time didn't see a crime scene as some sort of vision of previous events. They studied the scene itself, and extrapolated the events using particularly insightful inference. The characters do not expect to see anything out of the ordinary, and so they do not (and if they do, they are coached by superiors not to take too much stock in such things, as they are either the mind or some malevolent outside force playing tricks on them).

It's for this reason that the Order of Reason book had an entire section discussing perception magick, and the trifecta of Alertness, Awareness, and Arete. And how, in the Order of Reason, a character in the Outer Labyrinth is far more likely to use the former two abilities to channel their sensory magick than they are the latter.