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Sphere and rank for locating pieces of a broken book

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  • Sphere and rank for locating pieces of a broken book

    What would be the sphere rank needed for knowing the locations of pages of a book that’s been ripped into pieces and spread around in hundreds of kilometers apart?

    Correspondence and matter or entropy rank 1 with a lot of successes needed?

  • #2
    It really depends on how many mundane steps you're willing to take in this, and how fast you want to do it.

    The real big consideration for how many successes it would take is going to be how you know about it, and what you have as a sympathetic connection to the original book.

    In theory if you have, say, a piece of the original? You can justify Correspondence 2 alone, with minimal successes, but each casting is one success and you either need to go get it yourself or use other magic to retrieve it.

    The less ideal things get, the more legwork to do, or the more powerful magic you'll need to employ.

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    • #3
      Yes, knowing the location is Correspondence 2, you only need Matter if you are pulling them to you. The difficulty is going to be in number of successes or number of castings. A spell to find all of them will need as many successes as there are pieces (1 for the spell and 1 for each additional target), so 6 pages means 6 successes. You can also cast the spell as many times as there are pieces, which is probably the only reasonable option if there are a lot of pages.





      Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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      • #4
        Corr 3/Matter (optional Entropy 1 if you're worried about physically getting to the pages rather than just knowing their location) could do a map of all the pieces and would get around the huge number of successes of doing it once each. Life might be needed if you wanted to phyiscally colocate yourself to each position to grab the pages, and Mind 1 to handle the mental strain.

        It would still be a lot of successes to rack up, even if not as many as one caster per piece could be.

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        • #5
          With a piece of the book, Time 2, Matter 3 and Prime 2 you should be able to rebuild it good as new, too!


          What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

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          • #6
            Ultimately the challenge here has more to do with external conditions like where they are, how fast you need to reclaim them, who is watching/guarding them, etc. A lot of things are fairly easy for mages (time consuming or tedious perhaps, but easy) if they have unlimited time. Time limits and complications are the way to add tension to the challenge.


            Mage: The Ice-ension: An Epic Game of Reality on the Rink

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Asmodai View Post
              With a piece of the book, Time 2, Matter 3 and Prime 2 you should be able to rebuild it good as new, too!
              I immediately started trying to a solution that would benefit from using Time2. If the storyteller allows for the Time Sight to be maintained with concentration, the success threshold could be bypassed that way. Just remembered from another post, this is a beginning chronicle. None of them are likely to have that combination of spheres.

              Maestrim, did the person throw the shredded pile from a balcony on a windy day, drive around flicking pieces out the window, employ a group of people to spread them or some other method? This will affect what methods can be used to reassemble or recreate the book, both magical and mundane.


              Thank you for passing time with me in conversation. My Hacks.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

                I immediately started trying to a solution that would benefit from using Time2. If the storyteller allows for the Time Sight to be maintained with concentration, the success threshold could be bypassed that way. Just remembered from another post, this is a beginning chronicle. None of them are likely to have that combination of spheres.

                Guest, did the person throw the shredded pile from a balcony on a windy day, drive around flicking pieces out the window, employ a group of people to spread them or some other method? This will affect what methods can be used to reassemble or recreate the book, both magical and mundane.
                Time 2 Mind 1 would probably be the easiest solution to simply memorize all the pages down to the tiniest letter.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kakost View Post

                  Time 2 Mind 1 would probably be the easiest solution to simply memorize all the pages down to the tiniest letter.
                  Yes, and the retype it.


                  Thank you for passing time with me in conversation. My Hacks.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

                    Yes, and the retype it.
                    Exactly. This will be all that is needed if all that is needed is to replicate the content; only if it is some sort of magical book that requires the original pages to work its mojo is that this wont do - in which case, neither would it be effective to use matter to rebuild the pages either. You would need indeed to physically locate the pages using Correspondence - or, in the most hardcore case in which the pages have been destroyed, you would need some combination of Correspondence 2 with Archsphere Time (Time 6 probably, depending on wether you use level 6 Spheres as the upper limit like I do, or if you use the horrible ideas on "Masters of the Arts" with Archspheres up to 10, which I personally hate), to physically "snatch" them from the past.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kakost View Post

                      Exactly. This will be all that is needed if all that is needed is to replicate the content; only if it is some sort of magical book that requires the original pages to work its mojo is that this wont do - in which case, neither would it be effective to use matter to rebuild the pages either. You would need indeed to physically locate the pages using Correspondence (...)
                      Maybe also Entropy Magick (or maybe even a Prime Effect) could be used to achieve such outcome / result ? I do recall Entropy divination or perception Effects being mentioned relatively often in some M:tA books. It might require higher Sphere level than Entropy at 1 or 2, at such Effects might be relatively rare among Technocrats and Traditiion Mages, at least going by the usual tendencies and themes.

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                      • #12
                        Time 2, Correspondance 2 would also work. Just grab it before it's destroyed. The only caveat is you need to return it to the time you took it from or there will be paradox and Paradox!


                        What doesn't kill you, makes you... stranger.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Asmodai View Post
                          Time 2, Correspondance 2 would also work. Just grab it before it's destroyed. The only caveat is you need to return it to the time you took it from or there will be paradox and Paradox!
                          I think you need Time 4 for that, because you are reaching into the past.


                          Thank you for passing time with me in conversation. My Hacks.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                            Maybe also Entropy Magick (or maybe even a Prime Effect) could be used to achieve such outcome / result ? I do recall Entropy divination or perception Effects being mentioned relatively often in some M:tA books. It might require higher Sphere level than Entropy at 1 or 2, at such Effects might be relatively rare among Technocrats and Traditiion Mages, at least going by the usual tendencies and themes.
                            Yes, if you add Prime 4 you could "repair" the magic part of the book - if it isnt completely ruined. If losing the pages just left the book's mojo "damaged", adding Prime 4 could "realign" the new pages with its ether fluctuations. No further Spheres needed (no need to add Entropy).

                            So, Time 2 and Corr 2 to "get in touch" with the original pages, Matter 2 to physically "copy" the pages, and Prime 4 to "copy the Ether" of the pages, to align their "prime fluctuations" with that of the book. This is the clean requirements to do it, and the easiest way (as opposed to snatching them from the past - or the future).

                            In case the pages arent destroyed thou, but cant be snatched (they are protected for example), you could still do this to copy them from the past (before whomever is guarding them now gotta a hold on them), you can copy them, but you'll need to "cut off" the originals' link with the book, in order for the new pages to "suck in" the Ether. Otherwise the magic wont work - this is, after all, a "magic transfer", you are "sucking up" all of the mojo contained on the originals, and transferring it to a new vessel, therefore the originals will need to get removed. Since this would also be Prime 1, it will only add extra successes required (for something that will already be quite hard to begin with)


                            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

                            I think you need Time 4 for that, because you are reaching into the past.
                            Reaching into the future is Time 5.Theoretically, reaching into the past would be Time 6 (or more, if you play with levels above 6 - which I dont).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kakost View Post
                              Yes, if you add Prime 4 you could "repair" the magic part of the book - if it isnt completely ruined. If losing the pages just left the book's mojo "damaged", adding Prime 4 could "realign" the new pages with its ether fluctuations. No further Spheres needed (no need to add Entropy).

                              So, Time 2 and Corr 2 to "get in touch" with the original pages, Matter 2 to physically "copy" the pages, and Prime 4 to "copy the Ether" of the pages, to align their "prime fluctuations" with that of the book. This is the clean requirements to do it, and the easiest way
                              Could this be a Coincidental Effect under some circumstances?

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