Trinkets

[Lord Revan]

Hi. I was thinking about making a trinket ring, but had some questions.

First, what is the advantage of having a trinket buff you over you buffing your own pattern? So far, the only things i could think were:

- you can lend the trinket to someone elae and they'll get the buff. However, you can also lose the trinket, so it's kinda even.

- you wont be a bright beacon of magick for the lnes that can see it. However, your trinket will, so as long as you're carrying it, you will still be a beacon.

- you wont be affected by pattern bleeding. This is a good one, but it's not as if pattern bleeding is a big deal anyway.

I would like to know others pros and cons.

And also, what effects you guys think would be good to have in a trinket?

[Astromancer]

Any glamor is good in a Trinket. It's flexible. The sensation of a mouse running down your arm would massively distract anybody. The sound of a buzzing fly, a scent of burning, the sensation that you need to go to the bathroom NOW! Any of these can move a potential threat away from the players.

Useful buffs for a trinket could include enhanced senses. Highly flexible and useful. Buffs to Presence and Composure are massively useful in any interaction with others.

[Dataweaver]

I wonder how much of modern technology consists of Trinkets…

[Lord Revan]

Any glamor is good in a Trinket. It's flexible. The sensation of a mouse running down your arm would massively distract anybody. The sound of a buzzing fly, a scent of burning, the sensation that you need to go to the bathroom NOW! Any of these can move a potential threat away from the players.

Useful buffs for a trinket could include enhanced senses. Highly flexible and useful. Buffs to Presence and Composure are massively useful in any interaction with others.

I like the idea off buffs in senses and social interaction. Very useful and discrete.

Any thoughts about the pros and cons in comparison to directly buffing the pattern?

[Astromancer]

Directly buffing a pattern can be very potent. But if you can buff something less risky and gain some serious advantages, go for that. Being more charming is powerful, being perceived as more charming can get you most of the same benefits.

[Lord Revan]

Directly buffing a pattern can be very potent. But if you can buff something less risky and gain some serious advantages, go for that. Being more charming is powerful, being perceived as more charming can get you most of the same benefits.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

I was asking what you would think are the pros and cons of getting buffs from a trinket instead of getting them from buffing directly your own pattern. Like, a ring to make your punches deal agg dmg versus directly casting the Life 3 effect in yourself.

[voidshaper]

Well, the biggest advantage imo is avoidance of paradox. A trinket is using a conceivable 'disguise' for an effect whereas buffing your pattern directly might be considered vulgar. As per your example, trinket brass knuckles might carry less risk of paradox in dealing aggravated damage than bare knuckles, especially if the wielder doesn't have the physique to back it up.

What Astromancer mentioned is the difference between direct vs indirect effects. You could manipulate your pattern directly to become more attractive, or you could create trinket clothing to appear more attractive to others. The latter carries far less risk of messing something up - botching a spell while changing your appearance pattern is bad, botching the spell on a set of clothes is maybe $10 for a new shirt.

I personally like trinkets that have a indirect effect and are chance manipulators, because they tend to be the most subtle. If we take the bulletproof hoodie from the book as an example, I'd rather have a camo hoodie that would make me harder to hit for attackers. The effect is on another person, and missing a shot is even more consensus-friendly than a piece of cloth stopping a bullet. That depends on your choice of Spheres though.

[Lord Revan]

Well, the biggest advantage imo is avoidance of paradox. A trinket is using a conceivable 'disguise' for an effect whereas buffing your pattern directly might be considered vulgar. As per your example, trinket brass knuckles might carry less risk of paradox in dealing aggravated damage than bare knuckles, especially if the wielder doesn't have the physique to back it up.

Yeah, BoS says trinkets do not generate paradox, but I have my doubts about that.
First, the trinket power doesn't *have* to be related to the object itself, like the ring that makes punches do agg.
Second, you can have a trinket that is clearly vulgar, like the hodie in M20.

What Astromancer mentioned is the difference between direct vs indirect effects. You could manipulate your pattern directly to become more attractive, or you could create trinket clothing to appear more attractive to others. The latter carries far less risk of messing something up - botching a spell while changing your appearance pattern is bad, botching the spell on a set of clothes is maybe $10 for a new shirt.

Hm..Yeah, botching is bad even when you are not messing with your pattern.

Are those the only pros of using trinkets? I mean, the no paradox is a great one, but I'm not sure *all* effects could benefit from that...

What about dispells and countermagick, etc against trinkets?

[Astromancer]

If paradox is gained, it's gained by the Trinket.

Because of ingrained cultural ideas trinkets are somewhat more coincidental. People still believe in magical gizmos, even when they think the magic is hidden tech.

[voidshaper]

Yeah, BoS says trinkets do not generate paradox, but I have my doubts about that.
First, the trinket power doesn't *have* to be related to the object itself, like the ring that makes punches do agg.
Second, you can have a trinket that is clearly vulgar, like the hodie in M20.

Personally I think a trinket needs to at least pass as plausible in function to an average bystander to get the paradox-free pass. The M20 hoodie passes because it's at least possible that it has some layers of kevlar. I'd argue a simple ring that deals aggravated damage would not, but if you translate 'aggravated damage' as simply 'magic damage', maybe it does (aggravated bashing damage? Anyways, I think it's not a good example item made by the book).

The whole deal of a Trinket to be one is that it's an object of mundane function whose effect has been enhanced through Sphere magick, but not imbued with magick.There isn't a spell in the object's pattern- a knife that's been sharpened to insane levels, gaffer tape that's incredibly sticky and strong, WD-40 that will lube anything into action again. I'm honestly not sure they would register as magick at all, is that RAW?

Hm..Yeah, botching is bad even when you are not messing with your pattern.

It's not just that- if possible, I will prefer a spell which targets something other than myself. I consider a person's pattern as essential to their identity as their DNA, and if I can I will avoid messing with my magick genome, even temporary.

What about dispells and countermagick, etc against trinkets?

I don't think so. The change in effect happens because the pattern of the object has been changed, not because a spell is keeping it in an enhanced state. To make the sharp edge of a knife dull, you would have to change it again. There may be exceptions on certain supernatural effects, though. I'd probably be OK with dispelling a baseball bat that does extra damage against vampires.

Are those the only pros of using trinkets? I mean, the no paradox is a great one, but I'm not sure *all* effects could benefit from that...

Well, there is theoretically no time limit on the change, other than maybe natural wear on the Trinket.

[Lord Revan]

Astromancer you mean the trinket absorbs the paradox?
Also, you can do coincidental effects on your pattern with several instruments too, it's not a trinket thing.

Personally I think a trinket needs to at least pass as plausible in function to an average bystander to get the paradox-free pass. The M20 hoodie passes because it's at least possible that it has some layers of kevlar. I'd argue a simple ring that deals aggravated damage would not, but if you translate 'aggravated damage' as simply 'magic damage', maybe it does (aggravated bashing damage? Anyways, I think it's not a good example item made by the book).

Agree. However this is how effects already works in the first place, so trinkets doesn't change anything if we go this path.

The whole deal of a Trinket to be one is that it's an object of mundane function whose effect has been enhanced through Sphere magick, but not imbued with magick.There isn't a spell in the object's pattern- a knife that's been sharpened to insane levels, gaffer tape that's incredibly sticky and strong, WD-40 that will lube anything into action again. I'm honestly not sure they would register as magick at all, is that RAW?

Raw, both from revised and M20, trinkets are non magickal items that have been imbued with magick, being the effect permanent or not and being the effect related to the item itself or not. With the locking rule of M20, basically any pattern that has a locked effect is a trinket.

It's not just that- if possible, I will prefer a spell which targets something other than myself. I consider a person's pattern as essential to their identity as their DNA, and if I can I will avoid messing with my magick genome, even temporary.

Really? why not? You aren't necessarily messing with your DNA (depends on paradigm).

I don't think so. The change in effect happens because the pattern of the object has been changed, not because a spell is keeping it in an enhanced state. To make the sharp edge of a knife dull, you would have to change it again. There may be exceptions on certain supernatural effects, though. I'd probably be OK with dispelling a baseball bat that does extra damage against vampires.


Well, there is theoretically no time limit on the change, other than maybe natural wear on the Trinket.

Quite the contrary. Trinkets are mundane items (or patterns) that have spells on them. I'm not sure how diapelling works with them. Can't remember if it works against regular wonders...