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[WIR] Chicago by Night 5th Edition

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  • Some parting thoughts on Chicago by Night 5E.

    1. This was a great homage to the original books while taking the characters into new and exciting directions. This is definitely the book that Matthew Dawkins, Klara Horskjær Herbøl, and the other authors should be proud of. Is it better than the original Chicago by Night? I dunno since that's got a lot of nostalgia value to it but it is an amazing work overall.

    Camarilla

    2. Kevin Jackson was a great choice for the Prince of Chicago and probably the best one they could have made with characters like Al Capone, Ballard, and Maxwell being a bit too traditional for the matter. He's a character who can be either a patron or an enemy for the PCs and that's probably the way the Prince should always be run.

    3. Ballard is weirdly likable in this book as a victim of the 2008 financial crisis. That's probably a better place to take him as a character as he's not the avatar of capitalist evil before. On the other hand, I think there's always room for a vile businessman in vampire politics.

    4. Alan Sovereign is a character who works well as the Major Dormo and replacement for Edward Neally as a guy you probably are dealing with just so the Prince doesn't have to deal with you. I also like getting back Edward from the Sabbat since I never liked Blood Bond as a supplement.

    5. I think Nathaniel has lasted perhaps a bit longer than his character should have given that he's a vampire who wants to kill all other vampires. On the other hand, he's one of the most immediately useful vampires for Storytellers who need an easy villain.

    6. I really can't wait to find out what happened to Al Capone in the upcoming supplements. I've been waiting six months for the release of Chicago by Night and waiting a couple of more for the information in the side supplements is killing me.

    7. Annabelle and her twisted relationship with Helena works well for making a Toreador harpy into a sympathetic character. Also, she's really a walking Masquerade breach waiting to happen. I was never a big fan of Eletria so it'll be interesting to see how this progresses.

    8. I think Helena is one of my few complaints and it's a very mild one because it seems to imply she was one of Carthage's infernalists when she was one of the people who worked to bring the place down. I would have gone with a slightly more sympathetic take but rampaging diablerist Methuselah is a decent big bad I suppose.

    9. Critias having a mental breakdown to become the toady of a Prince 2000 years his junior is not a good fate for him but nicely displays that you can never really trust your own thoughts as a vampire. I think him killing his students opens a potential plot for blackmail or eliminating the ancient as does him being Beckoned.

    10. Making Damien Sheriff is a great idea. It's one I never would have thought of but works perfectly and eliminates one of the biggest "good guy allies" that Anarch PCs had.

    11. The book is weirdly sympathetic to Brett Stryker given he's Embracing men and women for Helena to devour and is thus a massive serial killer.

    12. The Primogen of Rose, Calhoun, and Marcel may not be as iconic as the originals but functions pretty well. No one is powerful enough to dominate Jackson but the player characters can theoretically stand against them as well. Adding Sierra and Khadij to replace Rose or simply dilute the power of the Primogen further is interesting. Frankly, Khadij can run circles around most of these people and her as Prince is a definite possibility.

    Anarch

    13. I think Anita has truly grown into a great character and is a wise choice to have as Anarch leader because she's someone 3-dimensional enough that if the player characters don't want to be the leader of the Anarchs, she's still worthwhile to follow. I also like Marc Levensque as her Sheriff as you know he'll be stupidly romantic to her and not respond well when rebuffed.

    14. Balthazar being an Anarch is hilarious and believable as a murderous redneck rebel is just him returning to form. Sweetie Pepper also is the kind of guy who can show the dark side of the Anarchs.

    15. Maldavis didn't do well in this book and is kind of unnecessary as a character now that Anita has stepped into her role. I think her becoming an acknowledged Tremere would have been better.

    16. I do think the Blood Disco should have been officially acknowledged as a third Anarch faction since they're so overtly helping Caitiff stand against the Camarilla's domination. They're a weird, fun, and eclectic bunch that also works as a family (with Bennet as the snake in their garden). Adze and Erzulie are also a couple I root for.

    17. Gengis rising to become the secretly wealthy political animal is something I'm not 100% behind because I always liked him as a poseur conformist Anarch. He exists to rebel because it's cool not because he has anything to say about society. However, I like that he WANTS the Camarilla to exist and Kevin Jackson's "list" because without it there's nothing to rebel against.

    Tremere

    18. Have a few mixed feelings about putting down the extensive Big Trouble in Little China rip-off...err homage. On the other hand, points for continuity as well as the fact that it really is something that is the height of WOD dorkage.

    19. Sun Che as a homicidal psychopath monster in a Wiccan hippie's shoes is an inherently cool concept.

    20. I kind of regret Dusable isn't going for Prince because this is probably his best hour. KJ really lucked out and I wonder if the reason he isn't trying is because of Helena's influence.

    21. Erichtho remains a great character and seems like a female V:TM player in terms of personality and attitude (which is a high compliment). She really tells it like it is. I am kind of sad she's not the local House Carnae rep, though.

    Independents

    22. Flyboy really does show why Chicago (if not the world's) vampire population is completely fucked. One of the best characters here even if the people who wanted the SI to go away will go, "Nooo, that would never happen! WHYYYYY!"

    23. Lots of cool, minor NPCs spread through the book with plenty of them being Neonates trying to find their footing that the PCs can help or destroy. We have a Mexican media heiress, an Embraced Kinfolk, a tattoo Nosferatu dedicated to Burning Man, and a social worker who doesn't get why vampires have to be assholes.

    24. Sierra is a perfect Lasombra who would utterly fail to be in the Lasombra. I still wish Lucita had been in this book. Talley is a fan favorite and it's enjoyable to watch him become the greatest Judas the Sabbat would ever know since he's always been a guy with absolutely no ambitions or schemes of his own.

    25. Olaf isn't what I would have done with Lodin but they at least committed to an interesting idea with him.

    Next up - WIR the Anarch and Camarilla guides.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • I've begun reviewing GARY and its various supplements.



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      • WOOT!

        More art!





        No idea who the Anne Rice-looking woman is.

        Would love to know.

        Bronwyn maybe?


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        • This is a great art piece.



          Maldavis?



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          • http://theonyxpath.com/super-super-s...meeting-notes/

            News Update: June 25th, 2019

            An update from someone obsessively following the Monday updates of the game but we're coming to a close on the release of Chicago by Night apparently. They've begun laying out the NPC section and that is the bulk of the book there. They've also sent The Chicago Folio to White Wolf for approval. Let the Streets Run Red and Cults of the Blood Gods are still in the Development stage of things but I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to go for Approval next week. This is very impressive as it means that TCF and LTSRR probably won't be released that far from Chicago by Night 5E.

            Things seem on track for an August release like they initially promised.

            Now here's a bunch of completely unsubstantiated speculation and hopes from me.

            Cults of the Blood God, as Matthew Dawkins helpfully indicated, will probably get a Kickstarter and that means we probably won't see it until next year around August. That's not a bad thing as quality is worth waiting for. I also hope we'll get some good stretch goals from this that relate to the Giovanni, Cappadochians, Ministry, and perhaps Golconda. I don't know what's going to be in this book beyond the Hecata but I'm certainly excited about exploring Kindred spirituality. Do I hope it'll have the possibility of additional supplements like CBN5E?

            Yes, but it's too early to tell on that end. I'm sure whatever they plan will be awesome.

            On Let the Streets Run Red, I've been kind of stupidly obnoxious about my enthusiasm for new Gary material (sorry guys) but I am also really looking forward to both the Chronicle dealing with Milwaukee being updated and also the Chicago suburbs. OPP made MIlwaukee a major part of the new canon with House Carna and I'm intrigued by the idea of Matt Decker turning his hatred of Lupines to a hatred of Anarchs.

            I don't know what's going to be in the suburbs but I'm hoping we'll see updates for some of the missing Cainites from the V5 update for Chicago. Maybe Dickie survived? Who knows.

            I'm also every bit as excited for The Chicago Folio because I love in-character fiction and want to see stuff from the Chicago Anarchs about the new situation. I love all of the Chicago characters so it'll be great to get to hear their "voice's." I also want to see some more information about the Church of Caine which is so far criminal underdeveloped. The Second Inquisition too.

            On a non-vampire front I'm looking forward the Technocracy Reloaded too but I kind of hope they dial back on the Technocracy's niceness. Also World of Darkness Ghost Hunters. The other games may be an Edition behind but it's still all canon.

            So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?
            Last edited by CTPhipps; 06-25-2019, 05:32 AM.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
              http://theonyxpath.com/super-super-s...meeting-notes/

              News Update: June 25th, 2019

              An update from someone obsessively following the Monday updates of the game but we're coming to a close on the release of Chicago by Night apparently. They've begun laying out the NPC section and that is the bulk of the book there. They've also sent The Chicago Folio to White Wolf for approval. Let the Streets Run Red and Cults of the Blood Gods are still in the Development stage of things but I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to go for Approval next week. This is very impressive as it means that TCF and LTSRR probably won't be released that far from Chicago by Night 5E.

              Things seem on track for an August release like they initially promised.

              Now here's a bunch of completely unsubstantiated speculation and hopes from me.

              Cults of the Blood God, as Matthew Dawkins helpfully indicated, will probably get a Kickstarter and that means we probably won't see it until next year around August. That's not a bad thing as quality is worth waiting for. I also hope we'll get some good stretch goals from this that relate to the Giovanni, Cappadochians, Ministry, and perhaps Golconda. I don't know what's going to be in this book beyond the Hecata but I'm certainly excited about exploring Kindred spirituality. Do I hope it'll have the possibility of additional supplements like CBN5E?

              Yes, but it's too early to tell on that end. I'm sure whatever they plan will be awesome.

              On Let the Streets Run Red, I've been kind of stupidly obnoxious about my enthusiasm for new Gary material (sorry guys) but I am also really looking forward to both the Chronicle dealing with Milwaukee being updated and also the Chicago suburbs. OPP made MIlwaukee a major part of the new canon with House Carna and I'm intrigued by the idea of Matt Decker turning his hatred of Lupines to a hatred of Anarchs.

              I don't know what's going to be in the suburbs but I'm hoping we'll see updates for some of the missing Cainites from the V5 update for Chicago. Maybe Dickie survived? Who knows.

              I'm also every bit as excited for The Chicago Folio because I love in-character fiction and want to see stuff from the Chicago Anarchs about the new situation. I love all of the Chicago characters so it'll be great to get to hear their "voice's." I also want to see some more information about the Church of Caine which is so far criminal underdeveloped. The Second Inquisition too.

              On a non-vampire front I'm looking forward the Technocracy Reloaded too but I kind of hope they dial back on the Technocracy's niceness. Also World of Darkness Ghost Hunters. The other games may be an Edition behind but it's still all canon.

              So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?
              I'm majorly excited for Cults of the Blood Gods,to see a new take on the Clan of Death,of course,but also to see the church of caine and mithraism!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                OPP made MIlwaukee a major part of the new canon with House Carna...
                But I thought she had left Milwaukee for points unknown. Has she returned?

                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?
                Cults of the Blood Gods, mostly for the Harbringers.

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                • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  The Cobweb (Malkavians)

                  Okay, this is absolutely awesome and every Malkavian should be able to have at least 1-5 of this and the ability to buy it in. I find it strange it's in Chicago by Night 5th Edition but that's just because some great writers are there. It should be an essential loresheet.
                  I'm going to disagree and say that "The Cobweb" is the single worst loresheet written for V5. It is a glaring design fumble that does not fit the way any other loresheet has been designed.
                  No other loresheet is an incremental buildup. Golconda 1-5 is not "you get a bit more golcondier" with every dot. Cult of Shalim gives discrete benefits and the fifth dot is not shalimier than the first one.

                  But the Cobweb is designed like an incremental buildup, and it's executed badly at that. Dots 1-3 are incremental "you can use a magic phone". Of these only Cobweb 3 has a game mechanic attached to it, and that game mechanic makes it worse than Cobweb 2. Because with Cobweb 3 you can summon malkavians to you once per story, but with Cobweb 2 you can talk with malkavians whenever. Cobweb 4 is an incredibly niche benefit that I wouldn't rate above one dot. Cobweb 5 is basically fine, though in my opinion overpriced and requires extra discussion on how doing what Malkav wants benefits you.

                  I'm also miffed by the fluff piece spending a paragraph to speculate on the existence of Malkav and whether he spies on people through the web. If you are going to write that, then you shouldn't immediately follow with the power to spy on people through the web and a power confirming the existence of Malkav.
                  Last edited by Kammerer; 07-15-2019, 09:40 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
                    I'm going to disagree and say that "The Cobweb" is the single worst loresheet written for V5. It is a glaring design fumble that does not fit the way any other loresheet has been designed.
                    No other loresheet is an incremental buildup. Golconda 1-5 is not "you get a bit more golcondier" with every dot. Cult of Shalim gives discrete benefits and the fifth dot is not shalimier than the first one.
                    I agree that the book's wording is kind of a mess; here's how I reinterpreted it (and how I would use it in my games).
                    1. You can "tune in" and listen to what's happening on the Network; you receive messages meant for you without a roll, and can make an Awareness roll to pick up the general states of nearby Malkavians.
                    2. You can send short messages and phrases to individual other Malkavians who are nearby. They receive these automatically if they have the first dot, or with an Awareness roll if they don't.
                    3. You can send out a single message to all Malkavians nearby, indiscriminately. They all receive it as per the dot-two power above, and the range is wider than for dot two.
                    4. You can borrow the senses of a direct ancestor or descendant. Usually this is limited to a single step removed (your sire or your childe), but you can make a roll to reach further through the web of blood ties.
                    5. Someone on the Cobweb acts as a Mawla—it might be the global hive-mind as a whole, it might be an older Malk who has an interest in you, it might even be a fragment of an Antediluvian, nobody knows. May be different entities for different people who buy this level. But someone out there is helping you, and can offer you a wide variety of knowledge from across the years…all filtered through Malkavian madness, of course.
                    The dots don't have to be purchased in order, so it's possible to be able to receive and broadcast, but not send to a specific person. Or you might be able to send messages to specific people, but not be very good at receiving messages or picking up on anything not directly sent to you.

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                    • Almost there according to 23:12



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                      • Ready for Backers pending WOD approval!


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                        • CHICAGO BY NIGHT is now available to Backers!

                          Enjoy the awesomeness of Chicago!

                          Edit:

                          Really awesome job, guys!

                          Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-26-2019, 03:04 AM.


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                          • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                            So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?

                            I remember reading somewhere that the 5E Players Guide was going to include rules about using pre 5E lore and information about all 13 clans. If so, that's what I'm looking forward to buying. If I use any of the HUGE changes from 5E lore, I may use the Hecata. I do like what I have heard about changes to the Giovanni/Cappadocians/Samedi/Whatever-else-is-being-included.

                            Chicago by Night for 5E really knocked my socks off. I really enjoyed reading my backer PDF copy. Money well-spent.
                            Last edited by grimler; 07-27-2019, 05:01 AM.


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                            • The art and layout for the book is fantastic. Not sure what else there is to say about it anymore.

                              I also think they've added quite a bit more to the manuscript.

                              I don't remember Doctor Genet being mentioned in the original for example.


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                              • Here's my review of the final product:



                                5/5

                                CHICAGO BY NIGHT 5TH EDITION is technically the third edition of the seminal Chicago by Night city book supplement for Vampire: The Masquerade. Way back in 1991, the book was released for the then-new series about playing tragic misunderstood creatures of the night a decade before Twilight made it uncool. The book was a shocking change the kind of books present from Dungeons and Dragons or even Call of Cthulhu. It was adult, edgy, racially diverse, sexually diverse, and full of complicated politics your player characters were meant to involve themselves in without shooting up the place. Well, yeah, they'd probably shoot up the place anyway but it wasn't advised.

                                The premise is the same for Vampire: The Masquerade as a whole. The World of Darkness is one where immortals walk among humanity, feasting on their blood and forming complicated societies that continually jockey for power like a vampire Game of Thrones. The young rebel against the old, the poor against the rich, and the powerful pull the strings of the weak(er).

                                As awesome as the original CbN was, it's almost thirty years old now. It was updated in 1993 for Second Edition but even that was part of an era's end. City books have never been the best selling products of Vampire: The Masquerade and the setting ended with lots of potential ways for the main characters to affect the city. Any further updates would be immaterial as the city would be unrecognizable.

                                Nostalgia has a powerful effect on the aging gamer, though, and Onyx Path Publishing revived the V:TM gameline with the Vampire: The Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition. We're now on the 5th Edition of that game and they've created a similar update to the Chicago setting. It was successfully Kickstarted in 2018 and only now has been released to the public.

                                The new Chicago is secretly ruled by Kevin Jackson, a former Cabrini Green gangster turned respectable undead businessman. He has successfully seized control over the city in the chaos of the recent events in the setting and set down a brutal set of laws designed to make him the most revered Prince in America. He has recruited some of the Anarchs (rebellious young vampires) who opposed the former Prince and turned them against their fellows.

                                The book updates the setting to 2019 from its early Nineties roots. A lot of social, government, and economic changes have happened both to Chicago as well as the nation as a whole. The history of Chicago incorporates such things as the failed Chicago Olympics bid, gentrification (including the destruction of Cabrini Green), and the collapse of Gary, Indiana from a dying town to a dead one. It also incorporates some facts about society ranging from segregation to violence in order to better roleplay the city's inhabitants.

                                This is a gorgeous book and one that was made with every possible attention to detail. The art is different from both the classic black and white V:TM art as well as the V5 photoshopped pictures. Every vampire in the book has a portrait and while not all of them match their original appearances, most are just beautiful. The layout is also extremely well done, drawing attention to the little sidebars and tidbits designed to make the lore evocative.

                                The real appeal of the book, though is it's immense attention to detail as well as its usefulness for making the controversial 5th Edition make sense. While a fan of 5E, I feel it made numerous missteps and may have changed too much for the average player. This is not the case here as we see a seamless blend of the old with the new. Things like the Beckoning, Second Inquisition, and Anarch/Camarilla War are all integrated in an organic fashion that allows what was good about the old to be kept while advancing the plots of characters in new directions.

                                I absolutely love the method of handling NPCs in this book with every one of them detailed with mortal history, vampire history, their current plots, mortal retainers, and what their public identities are. It's everything you could possibly need to know how to do serious roleplaying as well as any number of adventure hooks with practically any character. Characters I loved in this book were Anita Wainwright, Critias, Maldavis, Bennet Steadman, Flyboy, and a dozen others.

                                The book continues the original CbN's conflict between the Anarchs and the Elders. V5 was criticized for returning to this conflict over the Camarilla vs. Sabbat but I love it. Kevin Jackson is ruthlessly purging the Anarchs but doing it in a subtle backhanded way. The conflict has multiple leaders and partipants that mean, however the PCs choose to fight the war (if at all), they have strong personalities to work off of. The treason of Damien, a long-beloved Anarch hero, worked surprisingly well in illustrating how the years can wear down even the most noble soul.

                                Diversity-wise, this is one of the strongest books in V:TM for any edition. There are gay, straight, transgender, black, white, Native American, rich, and poor characters that help illustrate Chicago from multiple perspectives. As a better author than me said, "reality has a diversity bias." One thing that I shouldn't be happy about but am is the fact that with only one or two exceptions, almost every vampire in the book has a horrifying side to go along with their more likable qualities. Even decent-ish folk like Anita Wainwright crave bloodthirsty (ha!) revenge on their enemies or plan to use other Kindred as dupes.

                                A lot of gamers don't buy books for the storybeats and world-building, though. How is the crunch of the book? Well, the biggest thing the book provides is the rules and material for the Lasombra. One of the biggest criticisms of V5 was it didn't provide rules for popular clans the Assamites, Giovanni, Followers of Set, Tzimisce, Lasombra, and Ravnos. The Lasombra get a full write-up here with roughly half the clan defecting to the Camarilla as well as rules for their new discipline of Oblivion.

                                The authors of the book have the hard job of explaining why the Lasombra, a fanatical and snooty clan that hates all things Camarilla, would join with their ancient rivals. I think they did a pretty good job of making it justifiable. The fact that only half the Clan joins also makes it believable to me. I won't spoil their reasoning but it's spelled out in their Clan section.

                                If I had to pick a favorite part of the book out, it would probably be "The Sacrifice" which is a chronicle at the end of the book that could easily fill out an entire campaign for player characters. The player characters are assigned by Prince Jackson (willingly or not) to serve as bodyguards as well as tourguides for a visiting Lasombra delegation. If the negotiations go well, they can make the Lasombra a part of the Camarilla (something the player characters may wish to prevent). While published adventures are always a bit of hit and miss, I feel this did an amazing job. It also showed why some Lasombra would probably fit in well to the Camarilla while others would just make it worse. Kudos to the creators.

                                Stats-wise, in addition to the write-up for Oblivion, we also have plenty of adventure hooks and Loresheets. The book provides the rules for creating your own cities and adventures plus also making coteries for vampires to interact with. It's not my cup of tea but I think people wanting to expand their city-write ups will find the book more than worth its cost. I think my favorite of the Loresheets has to be the Book of Nod and Malkavian Madness Network. Both of which will help my current characters.

                                Are there any criticisms? Well, die-hard fans of V20 will note that this book isn't metaplot agnostic by any means. The Second Inquisition plays a huge role, large numbers of characters have succumbed to the Beckoning, and many old characters have been knocked off by the random hand of fate. A few characters like Joshua, Al Capone, Juggler, Dickie, and Doctor Genet also get mentioned but aren't detailed in the book. They were detailed in previous supplements but new gamers could be confused by their inclusion.

                                In conclusion, Chicago by Night 5th Edition is an amazing book. I loved every single V20 book and I'm probably not the person to criticize any work by Onyx Path. However, I think this is easily the best of 5th Edition and shows exactly what can be accomplished in that setting if you give it a chance. A lot of old favorites return and are made better, deeper, and more intense by their updates. The new characters also include what I'm sure will be classics to come. It's not the best V:TM book of all time but it is probably in the top five.

                                * The book is available to gamers who buy backerkit and will soon be available on pdf for interested buyers.
                                Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-31-2019, 04:40 PM.


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