How underpowered or overpowered do you think Obfuscate is? [Revised/V20]

[Hermeticus]

Sorry for the thread necromancy.

I am actually having trouble understanding how the discipline is written in VDA20 and V20, which obviously affects my judgement on its being underpowered or overpowered.

1) does Mask of a Thousand Faces work on anyone who sees you at once or must you choose one victim at a time? I have always assumed the former, but today I reread the power and the phrasing made me doubt. If it works on anyone who sees you, great. Awesome power. If it works on one person at a time, it would be very awkward to use.

2) reading Vanish from the Mind's Eye, I don't see the same limitations of Unseen Presence. In VDA20 it says that it tricks ALL the senses and there is not a single mention of it being broken by anything. Rather, if you score less than 3 successes on the activation roll, you become a ghost and people can still interact with you... which makes me think that if you score more and actually disappear, interacting physically with them will not break the invisibility. You basically become like the invisible man, plus you make no noise or smell. It could even be argued that you trick the sense of touch too, therefore if you attack someone, they will see the wound opening but not feel it in the moment. But maybe I am reading too much into it. Is it clarified anyway that it is broken like Unseen Presence if you do something obvious like hitting something?

3) can you use Cloak the Gathering to put Mask of a Thousand Faces on yourself and some allies, so that each of you has a different face?

Thank you for the clarifications.

[BloodyRelight]

I basically just use VTR2e Obfuscate now. It's much better. But then, I use a lot of VTR Disciplines now.

Same! I also use VTR 2.E for all the mental disciplines as well, VTR dominate is amazing and Majesty is what presence always should have been in my opinion.

[BloodyRelight]

Sorry for the thread necromancy.

I am actually having trouble understanding how the discipline is written in VDA20 and V20, which obviously affects my judgement on its being underpowered or overpowered.

1) does Mask of a Thousand Faces work on anyone who sees you at once or must you choose one victim at a time? I have always assumed the former, but today I reread the power and the phrasing made me doubt. If it works on anyone who sees you, great. Awesome power. If it works on one person at a time, it would be very awkward to use.

2) reading Vanish from the Mind's Eye, I don't see the same limitations of Unseen Presence. In VDA20 it says that it tricks ALL the senses and there is not a single mention of it being broken by anything. Rather, if you score less than 3 successes on the activation roll, you become a ghost and people can still interact with you... which makes me think that if you score more and actually disappear, interacting physically with them will not break the invisibility. You basically become like the invisible man, plus you make no noise or smell. It could even be argued that you trick the sense of touch too, therefore if you attack someone, they will see the wound opening but not feel it in the moment. But maybe I am reading too much into it. Is it clarified anyway that it is broken like Unseen Presence if you do something obvious like hitting something?

3) can you use Cloak the Gathering to put Mask of a Thousand Faces on yourself and some allies, so that each of you has a different face?

Thank you for the clarifications.

For your first question by reading it seems to work on groups take the text under successes for our example the text for 2 successes in V20.

2 successes He looks unlike himself; people don’t
easily recognize him or agree about
his appearance.

People implies more than one.

In dark ages the text for 2 successes it can even change how others, others being more than one perceive her gender.



On the second question there are notable differences in several disciplines between v20 and DAV20. Complete invisibility is gained only at 4 successes 3 and below the vampire is faint and ghostlike. I would argue they know if they are attacked but they would not know who did it or how it happened it is messing with their senses but nothing in the text implies they would not feel pain if attacked. They likely would not feel you touching them since it effects all senses but I doubt it would extend to you say stabbing them as that is not you but a physical object you are forcing into their ribs. They would also likely feel the blood any wounds you make would spill. If your punch turned their head they would also likely notice they were suddenly looking somewhere else.


It would not however break the invisibility in my opinion if you scored 4 successes as it mentions no causes for breaking it.

[Hermeticus]

For your first question by reading it seems to work on groups take the text under successes for our example the text for 2 successes in V20.

2 successes He looks unlike himself; people don’t
easily recognize him or agree about
his appearance.

People implies more than one.

In dark ages the text for 2 successes it can even change how others, others being more than one perceive her gender.



On the second question there are notable differences in several disciplines between v20 and DAV20. Complete invisibility is gained only at 4 successes 3 and below the vampire is faint and ghostlike. I would argue they know if they are attacked but they would not know who did it or how it happened it is messing with their senses but nothing in the text implies they would not feel pain if attacked. They likely would not feel you touching them since it effects all senses but I doubt it would extend to you say stabbing them as that is not you but a physical object you are forcing into their ribs. They would also likely feel the blood any wounds you make would spill. If your punch turned their head they would also likely notice they were suddenly looking somewhere else.


It would not however break the invisibility in my opinion if you scored 4 successes as it mentions no causes for breaking it.

Thank you. As for the effects on wounding with Obfuscate 4, yes, that's what İ imagined too, depending on how you wound them.
As for the unbreakable invisibility, İ saw VTM20 does specify it's broken like Unseen Presence, though VDA20, as we said, doesn't specify. So it's up to the ST, İ guess.

Generally, İ like more how the whole discipline is written in VTM20 because it's clearer, but wouldn't mind if the ST allows me to play invisible man in VDA20... lol Though enemies would then also have this ability.