No one expects the Second Inquisition!

[Leandro16]

Maybe my dead thread "Why humans are so strong in this edition?" will reborn at some point.

The problem is not humans, they where always an actual treat and the reason why the masquerade exist, V5 problem is the game design

V5 wanted to tone down the setting towards street level but instead of making a cohesive set of rules:

1. They forbid other playstyles by making their ruleset really restrictive instead of modular
2. They made the game mechanics so random that everything seems inconsecuent.
3. Things happen becuase "plot device" whitout a posible mechanical interpretation

An example of this is the fact that between Horatio Ballard and Helena there are rolls where there is only a diference of 3 dice or similar despite Helena being a "Blood God" TM.

[monteparnas]

How is usage of Polonium problematic? It's not like the Coalition is depicted in a positive light, a lot of things in the book are "you know all the horrible things government agencies do in real life? They do it against vampires in WoD".

It's unfortunately not specified what sort of damage Polonium does, but I'd do superficial.

It is problematic because it is specifically linked to Putin IRL. Heavily. No other intelligence agency, no other era of Russian intelligence, it is a Putin thing. Indeed, it is kind of a signature: you'll never be able to prove, but it almost guarantees by itself that the poisoning was done by Putin's order. This is kind of a big deal. This is also kind of stupid as an SI tactic when you think about it this way.

And as MyWifeIsScary said, it is also stupid. For starters, Polonium is expensive for its properties as a killer agent, it's really a message more than just a poison. But to the point, the idea that vampires would be vulnerable to it is ludicrous. Polonium emits radiation in a particular way that makes it relatively safe from the outside (it can't affect through skin), but extremely radioactive if ingested, and that's it. The end.

So, tell me how a radiation-based poison does not completely destroy the cell structure and consistency of the blood it is in, but somehow will harm an undead walking corpse that does not rely on cell metabolism anymore? There's no reason to think vampires are affected by radiation short of a chain reaction with enough energy to burn them, which isn't the case here.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Maybe my dead thread "Why humans are so strong in this edition?" will reborn at some point.

Humans aren't weak, but they're not this organized. The question has never been "can humans fight us" but "are humans willing to fight us?" and the answer has always been no. Humans with power would sell the planet if it helps them and their mates get rich. Hunting vampires is decisively more risky and stupid than that.

Vampires are weak in this edition. Even so far as to render armour completely and utterly useless when worn.

Kyle, we're outgunned, we can't fight here
Nu-uh Ted, they've only got pistol caliber weapons, which can't possibly penetrate the centimetre thick steel armour I got, that's just physics.
Ordinarily that'd be true, kyle, but have you forgotten that you're a VAMPIRE? a Centimetre of steel might as well be nothing before the power of 9mm
Ah that's right, I forgot Ted, thanks for reminding me. God cursed us to fear faith,fire, sunlight, and to not benefit from any effective protection we could wear. How could I forget? Thanks Ted, you really saved me from thinking my reasonable preperations were more valuable than paper.

[CTPhipps]

I don't know much about West Virginia or the Appalachians, but I doubt that fighting the Mothman is part of your heritage. Perhaps it would be more apt to say that hunters in regions where their quarry behaves more egregiously have the advantage of being better informed than foreign counterparts, because until the SI, they didn't have a decent global information network? And it still has room for improvement. For example, hunters in Eastern Europe may be more informed by the actions of the odd Vozhd-happy Tzimisce and Soviet Anarchs, who used to be their colleagues and depended a bit more on terror than outright ignorance compared to the Camarilla. So in short, the Masquerade has weak spots and they aren't homogenous.

This actually segues into the one big area I have a problem with 5th Edition, which is the fact they wanted to start with a clean slate and I am RIDICULOUSLY devoted to continuity. I'm one of the people who got 99% of Beckett's Jyhad Diary and obsessed over the 1% that was new to me. So I am always deeply disappointed with the supplements that seem to have no connection to prior continuity (which is almost everything).

There's a reason my favorite V5 stuff is OPP.

So the parts that jump out for me about the SI are the SAD, Arcanum, Inquisition, and other stuff from The Hunter's Hunted and Year of the Hunter. I'm much more forgiving of a supplement's oddities if it relies on past continuity.

Is it weird I'm very saddened the Russian section of the book downplayed the Brujah Council and Baba Yaga? It's weird, isn't it?

[blailton]

Maybe my dead thread "Why humans are so strong in this edition?" will reborn at some point.

[Spencer from The Hills]

I think that people should have ownership of their cultural heritage. Don't you? If there's Appalachian monsters, I should have an advantage over them. I should get an automatic bonus against West Virginian monsters like the Mothmen.

If you think that's racist, you're just dead wrong.

I don't know much about West Virginia or the Appalachians, but I doubt that fighting the Mothman is part of your heritage. Perhaps it would be more apt to say that hunters in regions where their quarry behaves more egregiously have the advantage of being better informed than foreign counterparts, because until the SI, they didn't have a decent global information network? And it still has room for improvement. For example, hunters in Eastern Europe may be more informed by the actions of the odd Vozhd-happy Tzimisce and Soviet Anarchs, who used to be their colleagues and depended a bit more on terror than outright ignorance compared to the Camarilla. So in short, the Masquerade has weak spots and they aren't homogenous.

[CTPhipps]

I can link you to some articles if you want then. Warning, they're all really depressing.

No, I'm familiar with the poisoning. That one poor bastard who survived it twice as a reporter.

[MarkK]

Thank you. Was asking as a serious question not a rebuttal.

I can link you to some articles if you want then. Warning, they're all really depressing.

[CTPhipps]

There is not at this time in global affairs a whole lot of difference/daylight between these two things considering the second is the arm of the first and his usually preferred vehicle for expressing authority/control. But as far as broader awareness of said tactic where it became notorious? It's particularly affiliated with Putin's era of rule over Russia.

Thank you. Was asking as a serious question not a rebuttal.

[MarkK]

Do you consider it a Putin tactic or a Russian intelligene agency tactic?

There is not at this time in global affairs a whole lot of difference/daylight between these two things considering the second is the arm of the first and his usually preferred vehicle for expressing authority/control. But as far as broader awareness of said tactic where it became notorious? It's particularly affiliated with Putin's era of rule over Russia.

[CTPhipps]

This is straight up racist bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I think that people should have ownership of their cultural heritage. Don't you? If there's Appalachian monsters, I should have an advantage over them. I should get an automatic bonus against West Virginian monsters like the Mothmen.

If you think that's racist, you're just dead wrong.

If you don't feel it's in poor taste to refer to an extremely specific, actual, pretty horrible way a current authoritarian tyrant has murdered/attempted to murder people as a game device for messing with vampires, particularly within the context of a book otherwise touting Russia's badass effectiveness and corruption exposing, we're going to just have to settle for not agreeing on that one.

Do you consider it a Putin tactic or a Russian intelligene agency tactic?

[MarkK]

How is usage of Polonium problematic? It's not like the Coalition is depicted in a positive light, a lot of things in the book are "you know all the horrible things government agencies do in real life? They do it against vampires in WoD".

It's unfortunately not specified what sort of damage Polonium does, but I'd do superficial.

If you don't feel it's in poor taste to refer to an extremely specific, actual, pretty horrible way a current authoritarian tyrant has murdered/attempted to murder people as a game device for messing with vampires, particularly within the context of a book otherwise touting Russia's badass effectiveness and corruption exposing, we're going to just have to settle for not agreeing on that one.

[SetiteFriend]

How is usage of Polonium problematic? It's not like the Coalition is depicted in a positive light, a lot of things in the book are "you know all the horrible things government agencies do in real life? They do it against vampires in WoD".

It's unfortunately not specified what sort of damage Polonium does, but I'd do superficial.

[MarkK]

I mean, most of the NPCs are blindingly incompetent like the hacker who thinks he is an equal to vampires, the fire bug, the vampire who steel feeds on humans despite working for the Inquisition, and other "joke" characters. Where are you getting the idea they're super-competent.

There's a really long post from me reviewing the npcs but several posts back in this thread complete with a bunch of examples of npcs given special mechanics that feel too good/punitive/not thought out for balance. I refer you to that.

Shouldn't the equipment be, "Stuff that makes the Inquisition able to kill vampires?"

There's a line between "stuff to kill vampires" and "game rule hose job if used from the mechanics." And the implications of the detection gear just does not feel thought out.

I mean, they WOULD be attempting to make a bioweapon. That is a basic plot of a lot of Blade.

Not for nothing, but "well Blade did it" is not the ringing endorsement you might feel it is.

I mean, the book shows that they can't work together, that they're blinded by prejudice, that they hate each other, and that they have incompatible goals as well as operational procedures. What more did you want to make them a clusterfuck of nincompoops?

Because that's what I got.

Not telling me that despite all that, as time passes, more and more cities will become front line war zones and that even classic vampire strongholds will be pushed into, for one example.

It is a common method of poisoning someone in spy fiction, which is in fact something that this draws from. I've seen polonium used a dozen times in shows I've watched these past five years plus the movie KATE.

Okay, let me put this directly. When the book has a method of poisoning that Vladimir Putin has used on multiple people, and when it says "this is one of the Russians' favourite methods", I feel like you would have to understand that the idea that the book is not making a reference to this and is instead "drawing on spy fiction" comes off as extremely dubious.

Yeah, I flat out find this 100% the exact opposite impression of what I've gotten from the books. It's been massively downgraded as a threat and not likely to threaten most Kindred.

The IAO, with their navy seals and military hardware and Project Heartbeat and haven burning and night striking and ability to successfully negotiate with the Vatican to get relics for their own use and billions upon billions of dollars they can throw around, that they are referred to as being capable of doing another Vienna style drone strike, the whole "yet" on not even having dipped into the worst of their stuff, that they get around the idea of "only in war zones" to give APCs with .50 caliber machine gun mounts to North American and European teams.. if that's the impression you regardless came away with of the IAO, okay? We're not going to agree on that impression then.

Again, there's a difference between "well just don't use it then" and "no, everything is fine."

You seem to have decided that what I mean here is that I'm saying "the entire book is like this" as opposed to being a post that specifically notes "here are the things in the book I would have to not use as far as what I would otherwise try to use this book for". Which, I don't know what to tell you there.

[MyWifeIsScary]

I have no doubt Russia would be major vampire hunters. Eastern Europeans should have advantages over Western Europeans. But yes, this has aged like bad milk, especially with the recent invasion and display of what the kleptocracy has done to their military prepardedness. However, had it actually been accurate, a lot of people would have refused to believe the government was sending people into a meatgrinder for no good reason.
.

This is straight up racist bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself.