No one expects the Second Inquisition!

[CTPhipps]

So, other than what seems to be standard fare for the latest edition; discussing topics the authors know little about, the price being high for the short length... is this a decent book?

For some people, that's a bit like asking, "So, other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

Overall, I think the Second Inquisition is a massive improvement over THE ANARCH, THE CAMARILLA, and THE SABBAT. The fact that it contains actual game information and isn't all in-universe texts and writing is a major boon to things and so is the fact that it actually manages to stick to the topic rather than meander off into weird tangents.

I like the presentation of the Second Inquisition as an organization that has massive amounts of resources at its fingertips and yet a group that can't possibly bring them all to bear against the rest of Kindred society because of its disunity. MarkK lists my least favorite part of the book in the "Heartbeat" section, which is utterly ridiculous for multiple reasons and otherwise at odds with the more reasonable and well-done version of the SI. Basically a group that CAN threaten vampiredom but can also be BEATEN by vampiredom.

The appeal of this book is that it is a tool kit and there's a lot more variety and versatility for the SI. It could easily be inserted in V20 games and doesn't disrupt the setting nearly as much but fits with the kind of playstyle that you want to include.

So, easily the best of the "main" books but I think that's not a high bar to pass versus OPP's.

[MarkK]

Y'know, while I'm here, this was a relatively minor thing on the face of it, but the npc stat section, while I already noted not being thrilled by giving the British SI group special decapitation rules, it speaks to something else that digs at me on a re-read today.

There's nothing wrong with coming up with some special mechanics for different types of agents to make them a little bit more distinct than "human npc stat block", it makes them interesting. And some of them are indeed interesting as challenges or to ponder. They offer various contested rolls for things as far as their find crap out mechanics, or have more dice to resist certain stuff, or a somewhat amusing genre aware touch of giving an amateur "unprofessional" hunter the ability to not actually be dead when incap'd unless specifically finished off, and they then show up later with better stats and some gnarly/badass physical scarring to reflect overcoming their defeat and honing themselves, as though there's this totally separate parallel narrative going on you will never know where they are in fact the hero of this horror story. That's genuinely cool. Otherwise extended surgeries, rituals and the like as extended rolls on captured ghouls, mortals and what have you with difficulty to overcome uses of dominate and the blood bond makes sense as a thing, and it's not as though it automatically breaks it, or perma breaks it unless they have days/weeks to devote to doing so. Feels reasonable. Stuff like specialists being able to enact social or political contests to attack backgrounds, so forth. All of that is good and cool and even well put together and thought out.

And the rules for psychics, sorcerers, such things, feel fine on the face of it (the create sunlight spell feels too good, particularly when it hits like sunlight and does an extra 1 aggravated per temp wp spent past the initial 1 to activate the spell, and the statted sorcerer npc has 9 wp to throw around, but the sorcerers that can do that are presented as really rare, the roll is diff 4, and most of the other things they can do feel fine. Granted the sorcerer has 10+ dice to activate the spell, but still. That there's Xtech/Artifacts that are in various ways more rough than this for the effects they have possibly also makes me find it comparatively reasonable). They start to touch on the whole Brazil debacle in their Cunning Folk section though, which puts me off, but better and more directly impacted people than I have already been discussing that.

Anyway, it's me, so now we're going to dive into the stuff that I otherwise disliked besides the above.

The thing of the other npcs. The stuff they get feels to good to a point of going to that punitive place again. Or just too good period to feel balanced. A number of types get abilities that just flat out work without obstacle or even a roll in several cases, with the only limiter being that they can take longer to make go depending on how good a background is for instance. Or have abilities that impair the entire coterie and their backgrounds just for them being part of the hunter group and not needing to take any action to make them go (the blackmailer adding an extra step of a contested role to even just trying to use allies and contacts against the hunters is... ehhh. If you pay points for a background, and you're possibly having to do a related roll when using it anyway, adding an extra "roll to even be able to try to use it in the first place" is well into harsh.). The Dealer and the Detective particularly automatically uncover Herd members, haven locations, the like. Portillion and haven security can increase the time by weeks and in general it takes time, but again, it just auto works as presented in writeup, no roll. The Politician auto degrades related to their thing Allies, Conflicts and Influence by 1/month, again, no roll, just for being part of the group. And the Forensic Accountant actually having their rolls made to reduce someone's resources easier the higher the rating is, is just..

I feel like this is going to be obscure both for age reasons and because he's not actually that famous as he might prefer to be, but let's talk about John Wick for a hot minute. No, not the guy who can kill you with a pencil. The game developer guy who did 7th Sea, amongst other things. He's notorious for a few things but one of them is an attitude of that things players pay points for to have as part of their character's deal should be implements to punish them by (there's a thing where he bragged about a supers game he ran where he ruined a character with their own luck powers that they dropped a bunch of points on. He seemed to be proud of that he would drive people to quit playing it). He champions the "GM as adversary of the players" stance because unless they "earn" their fun, it wasn't really fun. 7th Sea 1e is itself fairly notorious for a later plot reveal that certain types of magic characters, who spent a ton of points to be magic characters, their magic is actually evil and straight up destroying reality every time they use it, to put it briefly. That basically they would be better off for the world if dead. That's his shtick.

"Your high resources make it easier to screw up your resources!", is not as bad as any of that, to be sure. But it reminds me of it. If my players pay a fairly significant amount of points for things, and obviously we first talk out what they are paying points for to make sure stuff fits and what they expect out of it, I try to respect those choices and make them feel useful.

There's other bits and bobs like that. The Slayer being able to win at cost against a single vampire just as a straight up thing (they also feel like an imbued easter egg without calling them the imbued, from my personal impression, so original HtR fans feeling a bit effed over these days, hey, you get a wink and a nod. So that's nice?).

I also dislike the XTechnician, but honestly that's mostly because I dislike the handling of XTechnology as far as the mechanics they have (the super tech and relics and etc.) in this book as far as the mechanics for a wide variety of them. If you like that stuff, you're probably fine with this guy. Still, the idea that if he lives through a thing and his "kitbash a one off gadget that either puts his successes in difficulty onto discipline use or requires one with no roll to now have a roll with half that difficulty" worked, that it could then become a developed reliably device in a year is.. ech. Or NPC types that otherwise can completely ignore any difficulty haven would add when penetrating a haven (again, player paid points to make their haven secure, just lol noping that is not something I'm enamored of). Snipers with incendiary rounds who on crit successes can set whole rooms on fire, an order of Leopold warrior completely immune to Oblivion, period (at least they're rare/elite). And characters with straight up "if things get desperate beyond hope they will try to suicide bomb themselves for 10 aggravated to the area." I'm similarly not impressed by "npc reduced to zero health can immediately detonate one of their ag damage grenades." rules. At least the theoretical suicide bomber needs an action. It feels kiiiinda childish.

I would actually be fine with the social npc that can contested roll to suss out Touchstones in and of itself, but for that it reminds of that yet again a V5 book is going "hit the Touchstones" (and there will be a later section on doing this besides). Already went into at length my issue with the repeated dip into this well.

Look, I get the idea. These people are supposed to be challenging and scary. But vampires in general are not as powerful as once was. There's such a thing as too good, and there's a point where it just feels either intentionally punitive or not fully thought out to how something would end up feeling in play.

It's also somewhat exasperating that some of these writeups give some of these npc types simple or automatic things they can do that a later chapter will instead present as involved, extended projects that can be countered and have to have rolls back and forth for at length in a "pick a lane!" sort of way (I naturally prefer the second method, yes)

To again avoid sweeping negativity, I give any number of points to the SI book for at long last addressing my particular gripe about the Anarchs across several editions of VtM, as a mention in the SI npc section of all places. They keep ghouls just like any other vampire. Ghouls are blood junkie slaves no matter how much you call them your friend. I'm aware it's part of the point of VtM that the Anarchs are as hypocritical as anyone else, but you'd never know it sometimes from the way they get talked about in some material. SI introduces a subfaction of Anarchs localized to Poland that have recognized said hypocrisy, and devote themselves to freeing ghouls from the bond because of wanting to do the right thing. Yes, it's a tiny group. Yes, doing that is probably going to provoke all the vampires around them, other Anarchs included, to killing the living hell out of them. Yes, they're thus kind of idiots. And yes, it is cynical and ugly that the SI then find these freed ghouls and turn them into anti vampire informants by basically exploiting their traumas. But the SI is cynical and ugly. It's just nice that someone acknowledged this whole issue and the idea that hey, maybe some Anarchs that actually believe in their screed would have a problem with ghouling.

Otherwise, given that I am not into the Xtechnology/Artifacts, that various npc groups and npcs get some of that stuff as part of their gear (even the more advanced find vampire cameras on a level of implication give me an eye tic) is not great by me. But if by contrast you like the Xtechnology, it shouldn't bother you.

[SetiteFriend]

To again avoid sweeping negativity, I give any number of points to the SI book for at long last addressing my particular gripe about the Anarchs across several editions of VtM, as a mention in the SI npc section of all places. They keep ghouls just like any other vampire. Ghouls are blood junkie slaves no matter how much you call them your friend. I'm aware it's part of the point of VtM that the Anarchs are as hypocritical as anyone else, but you'd never know it sometimes from the way they get talked about in some material. SI introduces a subfaction of Anarchs localized to Poland that have recognized said hypocrisy, and devote themselves to freeing ghouls from the bond because of wanting to do the right thing. Yes, it's a tiny group. Yes, doing that is probably going to provoke all the vampires around them, other Anarchs included, to killing the living hell out of them. Yes, they're thus kind of idiots. And yes, it is cynical and ugly that the SI then find these freed ghouls and turn them into anti vampire informants by basically exploiting their traumas. But the SI is cynical and ugly. It's just nice that someone acknowledged this whole issue and the idea that hey, maybe some Anarchs that actually believe in their screed would have a problem with ghouling.

Kind of agree with some things previously, and no strong opinion on others, but the O was actually introduced in Anarch.

[CTPhipps]

Kind of agree with some things previously, and no strong opinion on others, but the O was actually introduced in Anarch.

The "Anarchs hate ghouls" thing was also a controversy in-universe in ANARCHS UNBOUND.

[MarkK]

Kind of agree with some things previously, and no strong opinion on others, but the O was actually introduced in Anarch.

That's a shame. Well, points instead to Anarch.

The SI can still have some points for another example of them being a pack of bastard coated bastards for exploiting the rare time a group of vampires are trying to do good though (and also exploiting traumatized ex ghouls).

[MarkK]

The "Anarchs hate ghouls" thing was also a controversy in-universe in ANARCHS UNBOUND.

Not in any real depth to the point of a straight up ghoul emancipation movement. It mostly just notes it as a thing that gets some argument but other than a handful of more or less demented Anarchs who believe that the Masquerade must be completely destroyed, no real action. There's nothing of substance in the face of a lot of Anarchs just shrugging and keeping ghouls. Even some of the Cleavers are noted as ghouling their families.

[Karos]

On the whole, I thought the Second Inquisition book was a big improvement on the Sabbat book. In no small part, I think that's because the writers were (for the most part) working with a faction that was completely of V5's devising, there was no need to try and 'force' a much older and developed group into the V5 mould.

---

Positives

1. Lots of versatile NPC's. All of the constituent members of the SI are well-represented with a variety of appropriate NPC's. What's more, there are NPC's designed to challenge almost any part of the PC's sheet. Got players that focussed on their physical, social, or mental stats? There's something to challenge them. Discipline-monkeys giving the cops the run around? Plenty of different NPC's that can either let you target specific disciplines, or ramp things up by counteracting all of them briefly. This all before mentioning there are NPC's that let you challenge the PC's backgrounds and domain, something they normally count as sacred.
   
   In other-words lots of NPC's that will really flip the game on its head and hit the PC's where it hurts. A player who invested 5-dots in Resources or Haven, who has them start slipping down the drain is going to be very motivated to get them back and to get revenge.
2. Interesting overviews of the 'Five Torches' of the Coalition and each is differentiated quite nicely. A group of British SO13 Headhunters feels different to an American Firstlight team, which handles very differently from a Leopoldite Cenacle. The Coalition is just that, a diverse range of groups that only really have opposing vampires in common. Their methods, ideology, reach, and power varies nicely.
3. NPC blocks for the amateurs or those who might become hunters. The NPC amateurs that effectively have a "We'll be back!" mechanic are great for establishing those meaningful long-term antagonists.
4. Lots of inspiration for practical SI tactics. The book goes into depth on how different elements of the SI would go about investigating, isolating, and purging a city. There are some pretty-thorough examples and plenty of tips on how an ST can use these tactics and stages of operating in a chronicle.
5. Very interesting X-Tech & Relics. I really liked reading up on the entries presented, I think maybe one more editing pass for clarity might've helped. But on the whole, they're really interesting and there are plenty of items that you can build a Chronicle or an Antagonist around.

---

Negatives

1. The SI still feels a bit too 'all-powerful', whilst it certainly won't be wiping out Kindred the world over anytime soon, the book does make it seem like the vampires are ultimately doomed. Yes, they might survive in a city, defeat a crusade, escape an auto de fe. But throughout the book, it's very much presented as the vampires winning a battle to inevitably lose the war in the end.
   
   I would've liked to see some of the Kindred's counter-measures, I really would've liked to see some of them pay off. A lot of the counter-measures in the book seemed like "Here's a longshot your players can try. Maybe they'll get to keep hiding at great cost, but this might also just blow-up in their face and shoot them to the top of the SI's radar." That doesn't really feel great for players, I would've been interested in some advice on how ST's can guide players through subverting or destabilising SI forces. Really make the conflict feel like a war, rather than just the Kindred getting purged and hiding.
   
   Maybe something small: a group of Archons outwitting an SI operation or some Anarchs creating a new ShreckNet with Technomantic Blood Sorcery. Anything to make things feel a little less bleak and more of a fight between equals.
2. Contradictions with previous books. Mostly minor inconsistencies, things like there being a new set of rules for how Tasers work that contradicts how they work in the Fall of London.
3. The portrayal of Operation: Antigen. There's a lot of detail on Operation: Antigen in The Fall of London (my thoughts on that book are another matter). In that depiction, they're shown as working with Thin-Bloods, as willing to work with full-blooded Kindred (with a full-blown 'amnesty' program), as saving members of herds, as well as ghouls. Whilst also having a core of murderous zealots and ruthless agents willing to get things done. Yet in the SI book, they're presented as the most single-mindedly blood-thirsty of all the elements in the SI.
   
   This not only clashes with their depiction in The Fall of London, but doesn't make any sense for an organisation ostensibly made up mostly of British police. Levy all the accusations you like at British policing, but simply put, most British police officers aren't taught to kill. The idea that Antigen is the most blood-thirsty doesn't make sense from a purely practical perspective, they simply wouldn't have enough personnel with the necessary skills. (I'd argue that the Russian GRU would've been a much better choice for the ruthless portrayal we see.)
   
   There is a long-standing tradition of unarmed policing in the UK, even Tasers are seen as 'too much' by many in the UK, let alone armed police. The notion that rifle-wielding death squads are driving around London in MRAPS executing raids in the middle of the day is ludicrous. I get the distinct impression that this depiction was written by an American author who is used to a very militarised police force, one with a lot of army surplus hardware. The Fall of London did a much better job of accurately depicting that British police very rarely use firearms of any kind and that guns themselves are very rare in the UK generally.
4. What fluff/narrative there is seems pretty generic. I think the only fiction piece is a group of Kindred getting raided in their haven just before dawn (unless the other pieces were just that forgettable). I personally would've much preferred a piece from the perspective of the SI closing in on an unwitting Elysium; discussions between the Justicars on how they're going to deal with the SI long term; how the newly resurgent Blood Cults are going to handle them.
   
   Personally, I think a random coterie getting raided is nothing new, it's a story plenty of ST's will have already told more impactfully for themselves. It wasn't badly written, just didn't really add anything.
5. Statblocks needed another editing pass. The NPC's are great but they could've done with a bit more double-checking. Weapons and armour especially could do with having their damage/armour values included in the block itself to save ST's flicking between books/screens. (I expect to do that in D&D or Dark Heresy, less so in V5.) Alternatively, the stats could've been provided in the equipment section. Not an ideal solution, but better than omitting them altogether.

[CTPhipps]

There's a lot of detail on Operation: Antigen in The Fall of London (my thoughts on that book are another matter). In that depiction, they're shown as working with Thin-Bloods, as willing to work with full-blooded Kindred (with a full-blown 'amnesty' program), as saving members of herds, as well as ghouls. Whilst also having a core of murderous zealots and ruthless agents willing to get things done. Yet in the SI book, they're presented as the most single-mindedly blood-thirsty of all the elements in the SI.

This not only clashes with their depiction in The Fall of London, but doesn't make any sense for an organisation ostensibly made up mostly of British police. Levy all the accusations you like at British policing, but simply put, most British police officers aren't taught to kill. The idea that Antigen is the most blood-thirsty doesn't make sense from a purely practical perspective, they simply wouldn't have enough personnel with the necessary skills. (I'd argue that the Russian GRU would've been a much better choice for the ruthless portrayal we see.)

There is a long-standing tradition of unarmed policing in the UK, even Tasers are seen as 'too much' by many in the UK, let alone armed police. The notion that rifle-wielding death squads are driving around London in MRAPS executing raids in the middle of the day is ludicrous. I get the distinct impression that this depiction was written by an American author who is used to a very militarised police force, one with a lot of army surplus hardware. The Fall of London did a much better job of accurately depicting that British police very rarely use firearms of any kind and that guns themselves are very rare in the UK generally.

I'm going to disagree with you here as someone who read THE FALL OF LONDON. The activities of the Fall of London were coordinated with the military and carried as anti-terrorist operations done within British soil. It was more, "SAS guys chopping off heads" and not London detectives. Also, there's a very real chance that the "amnesty" offer the British hunters gave resulted in them getting slaughtered by Mithras or the Justicars of the Camarilla.

Just because they offered it in the book doesn't mean it's a policy they'd want to repeat.

And we've already established that they are one of the only SI groups to have exterminated an entire city's vampire population. The time to make them NOT bloodthirsty was before this.

Besides, they're not based on REAL London police. They're based very specifically on 1998's ULTRAVIOLET, which is about British hunters who work for the government in exterminating all vampires.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Ultraviolet1998

[Karos]

I'm going to disagree with you here as someone who read THE FALL OF LONDON. The activities of the Fall of London were coordinated with the military and carried as anti-terrorist operations done within British soil. It was more, "SAS guys chopping off heads" and not London detectives.

I very much got the sense the involvement of military elements was extremely limited. Things like the raid on the Shard were supported by SAS troops, but the majority of operations at best had a few veterans who'd joined the police since. (See Richard and his small crew of Royal Marines, and the fact the stat-blocks provided are all for Police/Counter-Terror officers, not SAS or Royal Marines.) Antigen has largely been depicted as a police operation with some military/intelligence backing. I struggle to reconcile that with a force so bloodthirsty that their hunters are known as 'Headhunters'.

Also, there's a very real chance that the "amnesty" offer the British hunters gave resulted in them getting slaughtered by Mithras or the Justicars of the Camarilla.

Just because they offered it in the book doesn't mean it's a policy they'd want to repeat.

Is there the possibility, yes. However, to go from: Thin-Blood Inquisitors and recruiting vampires and giving them amnesty to; members of Antigen would revolt if told to work with them is quite a leap. Especially without a story to explain why. (Had there been hints to a vampire counter-attack or the amnesty program failing or being subverted this wouldn't be an issue.)

Especially when the same book details several other hunter organisations actively and effectively recruiting and manipulating Kindred within their own ranks.

And we've already established that they are one of the only SI groups to have exterminated an entire city's vampire population. The time to make them NOT bloodthirsty was before this.

They're the only ones to pull off securing their city. That didn't originally mean they killed all the Kindred, there's an implication of studies and like I said the Amnesty program. There is also several references to Antigen helping slaves and those brought under the thrall of Kindred, whereas the SI book says they'd kill: blood dolls, ghouls, and servants if they got the chance.

Besides, they're not based on REAL London police. They're based very specifically on 1998's ULTRAVIOLET, which is about British hunters who work for the government in exterminating all vampires.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Ultraviolet1998

Firstly thanks for something new to add to my watchlist. (Assuming I can find it somewhere.) Secondly, I still have to say the depiction is poor. Do I expect the depiction to be perfect, no. But it reads very blatantly as an American author projecting how they think the police are equipped and behave onto a British setting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the fact that British based Modiphius portrayed Antigen more in line with the reality of British policing (even including an extended write-up in the book); whilst the American based Renegade portrayed Antigen as little different to militarised American police, makes me think.

[monteparnas]

20 years ago the internet was very questionable. 30 years ago you'd have to go to the library to do any measure of research. But today? Like I can find a wealth of concise information in under 10 seconds and communicate with experts on the otherside of the globe in under a few hours (timezones permitting). It's downright appalling that so many brazen missteps have been made in this day and age.

That's exactly what I meant.

For some people, that's a bit like asking, "So, other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

My husband is dead and some of the actors tried to do a Rock concert in the middle of it, but otherwise it was fine, indeed!

Just a joke. While I can't read it myself I'll ponder over your comments. CTPhipps, MarkK and Karos seem all to have some sensible tidbits to add. It certainly seems like an improvement over Sabbat, that was already an improvement over Anarch, but we're not talking a high bar here.

[MarkK]

I suppose for me, in the end, I find the issue of the length and price point largely inescapable, and that's without the watermark thing. And tackling the book from the perspective of a toolkit kinda exacerbates the problem.

So, okay, as a pdf, as far as directly usable material, sans the full art pages, the index, the front and back cover, the credits, table of contents, those two pages of fiction that are honestly just sort of.. there, you have 141 pages of game relevant content (and considering overall layout issues, it's hard not to feel like it's less than that). It's not that a book shouldn't have these things (though again, a combo of bad art and the straight up waste of a page to repeating the cover is.. crappy, and again, in a short, pricey book, every page counts at least for a sense of quality), but we're looking at "how much of this book is in the end directly usable to me, especially from the notion of pick and choose."

Okay, I'm now not using, because I don't like it, for reasons I've gone into pretty lengthy depth about at this point...

- Pretty much everything connected to the IAO: The power/money/gear/force projection/and especially sheer effectiveness of this group just straight up do not work with the idea of a more reasonably presented SI that vampires can actually fight back against.
- Anything in the other factions that resembles the above.
- Essentially all the stuff on Russia and even just the idea of it as a major SI faction: As noted in previous depth, it hits at this point somewhere between ludicrous to grotesque.
- The sections on Brazil that... do what they do.
- A significant portion of the npc writeups for being poorly thought out/overly harsh/overly powerful
- Pretty much the entirety of the Xtech and Artifacts for similar reasons for my own tastes along with some "you have not considered the implications of this" issues.
- Anything about hitting touchstones because again see previous expressed tiredness with this.
- While some of this already falls under "pretty much everything connected to the IAO", various of the advanced military vehicles/drone missles/outright statless plot device sections, what have you
- I'm losing basically a page for similar reasons to the idea of a chronicle or story centered around stopping an SI superweapon, as I am not particularly interested in an SI that has superweapon development capacity. You shouldn't need that for them to be scary. It's honestly outright lazy if the SI is scary because they can do the plot analogy of a Death Star.
- Any of the metaplot/chronicle stuff leaning into the previous take on the SI and otherwise making it still feel like it has its unstoppable omnipresence
- A theme and mood section straight up going "chop off one head, ten more will take its place!" I mean, Hail HYDRA I guess?
- Some more minor bits and bobs like the return of special decapitation weapon (No, really, did people actually like WoD Combat? Is this going to be some kind of ending of Zoolander thing where I'm screaming how it's all just one look and I feel like I'm on crazy pills?). The idea of using polonium to poison blood vampires drink is, especially as part of the Russia stuff, just outright bad taste while we're there.

That all comes together to a relatively solid chunk of book I'm not using for how long it is and what I paid for it. An approach that goes "not all of this book will be usable to you anyway" is not a good approach for a short, pricey book. Every section of it that ends up filed as not useful stands out that much more than it would in something longer, or at least cheaper. I'm left with that some of it was fine, but I wasted my money.

Addendum: But yes, of the "main" line books, it is better than the ones that have come before it (I wouldn't regardless put it near the OPP ones). But also yes as put forward, that's a low bar.

[CTPhipps]

I suppose for me, in the end, I find the issue of the length and price point largely inescapable, and that's without the watermark thing. And tackling the book from the perspective of a toolkit kinda exacerbates the problem.

Yes, I think the price is ridiculous for the content presented.

- Pretty much everything connected to the IAO: The power/money/gear/force projection/and especially sheer effectiveness of this group just straight up do not work with the idea of a more reasonably presented SI that vampires can actually fight back against.

Yeah, I flat out find this 100% the exact opposite impression of what I've gotten from the books. It's been massively downgraded as a threat and not likely to threaten most Kindred.

- Essentially all the stuff on Russia and even just the idea of it as a major SI faction: As noted in previous depth, it hits at this point somewhere between ludicrous to grotesque.

I have no doubt Russia would be major vampire hunters. Eastern Europeans should have advantages over Western Europeans. But yes, this has aged like bad milk, especially with the recent invasion and display of what the kleptocracy has done to their military prepardedness. However, had it actually been accurate, a lot of people would have refused to believe the government was sending people into a meatgrinder for no good reason.

- A significant portion of the npc writeups for being poorly thought out/overly harsh/overly powerful

I mean, most of the NPCs are blindingly incompetent like the hacker who thinks he is an equal to vampires, the fire bug, the vampire who steel feeds on humans despite working for the Inquisition, and other "joke" characters. Where are you getting the idea they're super-competent.

- Pretty much the entirety of the Xtech and Artifacts for similar reasons for my own tastes along with some "you have not considered the implications of this" issues.

Shouldn't the equipment be, "Stuff that makes the Inquisition able to kill vampires?"

- Anything about hitting touchstones because again see previous expressed tiredness with this.

It is a lazy and stupid use of Touchstones, yes. A better use for them would have the SI attempt to manipulate vampires by co-opting their Touchstones.

- I'm losing basically a page for similar reasons to the idea of a chronicle or story centered around stopping an SI superweapon, as I am not particularly interested in an SI that has superweapon development capacity. You shouldn't need that for them to be scary. It's honestly outright lazy if the SI is scary because they can do the plot analogy of a Death Star.

I mean, they WOULD be attempting to make a bioweapon. That is a basic plot of a lot of Blade.

- Any of the metaplot/chronicle stuff leaning into the previous take on the SI and otherwise making it still feel like it has its unstoppable omnipresence

I mean, the book shows that they can't work together, that they're blinded by prejudice, that they hate each other, and that they have incompatible goals as well as operational procedures. What more did you want to make them a clusterfuck of nincompoops?

Because that's what I got.

- A theme and mood section straight up going "chop off one head, ten more will take its place!" I mean, Hail HYDRA I guess?

I mean, you can't beat the SI by killing them. They're the government.

- Some more minor bits and bobs like the return of special decapitation weapon (No, really, did people actually like WoD Combat? Is this going to be some kind of ending of Zoolander thing where I'm screaming how it's all just one look and I feel like I'm on crazy pills?). The idea of using polonium to poison blood vampires drink is, especially as part of the Russia stuff, just outright bad taste while we're there.

It is a common method of poisoning someone in spy fiction, which is in fact something that this draws from. I've seen polonium used a dozen times in shows I've watched these past five years plus the movie KATE.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Why the fuck would polonium bother vampires? An immortal, unchanging body that can regenerate missing limbs and organs is now afraid of cancer?

A lot of new books don't even sound "borrow off a friend" worthy, and nobody at my table's buying.

[MyWifeIsScary]

I have no doubt Russia would be major vampire hunters. Eastern Europeans should have advantages over Western Europeans. But yes, this has aged like bad milk, especially with the recent invasion and display of what the kleptocracy has done to their military prepardedness. However, had it actually been accurate, a lot of people would have refused to believe the government was sending people into a meatgrinder for no good reason.
.

This is straight up racist bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[MarkK]

I mean, most of the NPCs are blindingly incompetent like the hacker who thinks he is an equal to vampires, the fire bug, the vampire who steel feeds on humans despite working for the Inquisition, and other "joke" characters. Where are you getting the idea they're super-competent.

There's a really long post from me reviewing the npcs but several posts back in this thread complete with a bunch of examples of npcs given special mechanics that feel too good/punitive/not thought out for balance. I refer you to that.

Shouldn't the equipment be, "Stuff that makes the Inquisition able to kill vampires?"

There's a line between "stuff to kill vampires" and "game rule hose job if used from the mechanics." And the implications of the detection gear just does not feel thought out.

I mean, they WOULD be attempting to make a bioweapon. That is a basic plot of a lot of Blade.

Not for nothing, but "well Blade did it" is not the ringing endorsement you might feel it is.

I mean, the book shows that they can't work together, that they're blinded by prejudice, that they hate each other, and that they have incompatible goals as well as operational procedures. What more did you want to make them a clusterfuck of nincompoops?

Because that's what I got.

Not telling me that despite all that, as time passes, more and more cities will become front line war zones and that even classic vampire strongholds will be pushed into, for one example.

It is a common method of poisoning someone in spy fiction, which is in fact something that this draws from. I've seen polonium used a dozen times in shows I've watched these past five years plus the movie KATE.

Okay, let me put this directly. When the book has a method of poisoning that Vladimir Putin has used on multiple people, and when it says "this is one of the Russians' favourite methods", I feel like you would have to understand that the idea that the book is not making a reference to this and is instead "drawing on spy fiction" comes off as extremely dubious.

Yeah, I flat out find this 100% the exact opposite impression of what I've gotten from the books. It's been massively downgraded as a threat and not likely to threaten most Kindred.

The IAO, with their navy seals and military hardware and Project Heartbeat and haven burning and night striking and ability to successfully negotiate with the Vatican to get relics for their own use and billions upon billions of dollars they can throw around, that they are referred to as being capable of doing another Vienna style drone strike, the whole "yet" on not even having dipped into the worst of their stuff, that they get around the idea of "only in war zones" to give APCs with .50 caliber machine gun mounts to North American and European teams.. if that's the impression you regardless came away with of the IAO, okay? We're not going to agree on that impression then.

Again, there's a difference between "well just don't use it then" and "no, everything is fine."

You seem to have decided that what I mean here is that I'm saying "the entire book is like this" as opposed to being a post that specifically notes "here are the things in the book I would have to not use as far as what I would otherwise try to use this book for". Which, I don't know what to tell you there.