The Nosferatu are pathetic spies

[Hello]

The Nosferatu clan disciplines aren't going to be that useful for spying on anybody in the modern age. Obfuscate doesn't hide them from cameras or any other type of electronics. V5 does have a power that hides one from recording devices, but it wont hide one from motion sensors. Auspex will shut down anyone using obfuscate in their proximity. Animalism isn't going to be that helpful either, unless your infiltrating some dirty apartment, its going to be next to useless if you're trying to infiltrate a somewhat clean area. Vampire aren't going to ignore the fly buzzing around or the stray cat that's lying down, they're going to know somethings up. Can animalism be useful when trailing individuals and listening in on mortals? Absolutely. Just don't expect the cat you took control of to get into the meeting the shareholders are about to have.

Honestly for a clan that likes to think of themselves as spy masters, they don't really have the proper build for it. Literally any clan with at least auspex, dominate, or presence as one of their clan disciplines are going to have an easier time getting in formation. So that's like 9 clans better at doing the nosferatus job.

Even their technological prowess is nothing compared to what the other clans can do.

Need a password? Read someones mind with auspex, or get them to tell it to you with presence and dominate. (Or use the third level power of Path of Technomancy, a thaumaturgy path that deals specifically with technology created by the tremere, to just bypass all this silly security nonsense.)

Need to steal some keys/usb/mcguffin? Use dominate/presence and auspex 5 together to get the owner to drop it of at a safe location. Congratulations you didn't even need to leave your haven. If you don't have auspex 5, you can use dominate/presence by themselves to get whoever has the keys/usb/mcguffin.

The fifth power of protean is going to be extremely useful if you're planning on sneaking into buildings, and the first power of vicissitude is going to be extremely useful if you want to infiltrate society any level.

You may not need any disciplines at all! You could just pay to get the information you want. Of course depending on the information you want, you may have to pay a lot. What kind of clan has a lot of money? The ones that have auspex, presence, and dominate as one of their clan disciplines, and also have a solid clan structure. That's 6 clans. Lassombra, Tremere, Venture, Toreador, Followers of set, and Giovanni.

[CajunKhan]

Their powers are mediocre at best for spying. What makes them good spies is their clanwide information socialism. Nosferatu spread information freely among other nosferatu. Whereas most clans horde information as individuals, Nosferatu only horde information as a clan. It's understood that while giving information on Baton Rouge freely to a Nos in New Orleans grants no immediate profit to the Nos from Baton Rouge who supplied it, it will eventually give indirect profit when that Nos from New Orleans freely gives information on New Orleans to the Nos from Baton Rouge.

This constant information socialism more than compensates for the mediocrity of individual Nos abilities.

[Thoth]

To be fair most of what you are complaining about is only applicable in the last 70 to 100 years. Earlier than that, there wasn't any surveillance technology, no such thing as computer systems, and yes there were rats and other vermin everywhere. So figure that the Nosferatu have been top end intelligence brokers for thousands of years, and then only recently has technology caused a change.

Auspex being the counter to Obfuscate is a thing, except that the there is always the question of who has invested more in what. Very few vampires tend to specialize in Auspex, many will have one dot due to it being a clan discipline, but it is usually a rainy day discipline for extra xp, rather than something to focus on. By comparison if you are buying into Obfuscate, you tend to make infiltration your specialty.

The clans that have Auspex naturally are a mixed bag. The Malkavians are unreliable, so even if you do sneak in and spy on them, you have no idea if what you are hearing, seeing, or stealing is real or fanfiction. The Toreadors in general terms aren't big secret types, they might invest in auspex to gain greater appreciation of their arts, but what is there to steal from them? The upcoming song lyrics, the plot synopsis for their next book, etc.?

The Tremere on the other hand have tons of fun and useful secrets, except between their warding, their magical servitors, and whatever else they have on hand, you will need way more than just a high Obfuscate score to get at it.

So that leaves the Tzimisce, which can have some interesting secrets to learn. Thus they make for excellent difficult targets to spy on. Just security minded enough to be a challenge, but not stacked with arcane tricks to make it absurdly difficult.

[blailton]

I agree. Potence is not good.

[Hades]

I agree. Potence is not good.

Best Comment

[Dogstar]

I don't know why someone would play VtM when all they do is complain about every aspect of it.

[Vilenecromancer]

Nosferatu disciplines are mediocre, but Obfuscate and Animalism are still the best spy disciplines outside of Auspex. Even then, disciplines aren't everything for vampires, in fact in Camarilla society they're discouraged from public use. As CajunKhan said, Nosferatu shines because they're culture is more tight knit. Also they embrace modern tech because they know their limitations. If the ninja were vampire clan, it would be nos. They use any tool they can get, and are underestimated by everyone, while still being used by everyone.

Also, everyone overestimates the camera problem, news flash they're not a big deal here. Yes cameras are everywhere, but almost nobody is watching them 24/7. More then half of the cameras you see are fake, and the other half only get their footage pulled if a serious crime occurred in the area, aka watch your hunting.

Another thing, you all underestimate Animalism. Remember, animals are everywhere in a city. From ravens, rats, and flies; animals are great spies.

[Vilenecromancer]

I don't know why someone would play VtM when all they do is complain about every aspect of it.

You can still enjoy something, but still point out it's many, many flaws.

[Sergeant Brother]

You make some good points. In terms of Disciplines, there are a number of Clans that would make better spies. I was involved in a LARP once where I was a Giovanni and I used ghosts to spy on people and it was super effective. Combine that with Dominate and I was a mastery of both gaining information and disseminating true or false information.

Any Clan with Auspex can just about make Obfuscate obsolete for spying - not just negating it but Auspex 5 allows you to be an extremely stealthy spy who can also read minds.

Nosferatu have a few reasons why they would be better spies than Disciplines alone would indicate. One is that all Nosferatu would be highly motivated to mastery Obfuscate. Not all Malkavians or Settites are going to try to become experts in Obfuscate, but almost every Nosferatu is because they need to in order to experience the world outside of their havens.

Also, they are a tightly knit Clan and can share information with each other. Then again, the Giovanni and the Tremere are even more tightly knit and have better information gaming Disciplines, they are probably more likely to keep their information to themselves or demand high prices for it.

One reason why the Nosferatu might be such good information brokers is that it’s one of the only options they have for gaining power and influence. Their terrible appearance makes mortal interactions far more difficult and even spending time with other vampires can be harder. Though since nearly every Nosferatu has Obfuscate and they are tightly knit, they trade in information because that is the one thing that they can do well, even if it’s not as well as others potentially could.

I agree. Potence is not good.

“Tell me everything that you know!”

“I’ll never tal… Ow! Ow! OWWW! Ok, ok I’ll talk!”

[Hello]

Their powers are mediocre at best for spying. What makes them good spies is their clanwide information socialism. Nosferatu spread information freely among other nosferatu. Whereas most clans horde information as individuals, Nosferatu only horde information as a clan. It's understood that while giving information on Baton Rouge freely to a Nos in New Orleans grants no immediate profit to the Nos from Baton Rouge who supplied it, it will eventually give indirect profit when that Nos from New Orleans freely gives information on New Orleans to the Nos from Baton Rouge.

This constant information socialism more than compensates for the mediocrity of individual Nos abilities.

But how will a nos in Baton Rouge uncover information that's useful for the nos in new orleans? Say they uncover information about a buusness deal between 2 elders, how will they know wether or not its useful for the nos in a certain location, like new orleans?

[CajunKhan]

They don't know. Which is why they constantly spread information exhaustively. A lot of what gets constantly spread across the Nos grapevine might never prove useful. But if something does, the information will be known. The Nos even use, irrc, mimetic devices to remember tons of triva. At least I think that's why the Nos clanbook said. It's been a while since I read it.

[Hello]

The clans that have Auspex naturally are a mixed bag. The Malkavians are unreliable, so even if you do sneak in and spy on them, you have no idea if what you are hearing, seeing, or stealing is real or fanfiction. The Toreadors in general terms aren't big secret types, they might invest in auspex to gain greater appreciation of their arts, but what is there to steal from them? The upcoming song lyrics, the plot synopsis for their next book, etc.?

Depending on the song and plot synopsis, you may have just struck gold. That upcoming song may be the next biggest thing since Justin Biebers "baby". That plot synopsis may be the outline for the next twilight saga.

[Mizu]

I think you are underestimating animalism, it isn't like they have to rely on local rats to spy on you. They send their own into your walls and then have them leave. And most buildings have plenty of room for animals to get about in the walls.

[Thoth]

Depending on the song and plot synopsis, you may have just struck gold. That upcoming song may be the next biggest thing since Justin Biebers "baby". That plot synopsis may be the outline for the next twilight saga.

How is that helpful to the thief?

A song is based on the performance, not the just the lyrics, hence why no one is throwing huge music contracts at drunken karaoke singers. A plot synopsis may get you some clout on the internet for spoilers, but it's not like that is monetizable. Maybe you could do something where you constantly leak the lyrics/plot to the public, making them public domain before the artist can publish or record, thus constantly destroying opportunities for them, but that is more personal vendetta than business.

The closest thing I could think of regarding stealing a "toreador" type secret and benefiting is knowing who is in business with them and manipulating market forces somehow, but that is really stretching it given how "fad based" many toreador interests are, especially when looked at from the immortal undead perspective.

[Hello]

How is that helpful to the thief?

A song is based on the performance, not the just the lyrics, hence why no one is throwing huge music contracts at drunken karaoke singers. A plot synopsis may get you some clout on the internet for spoilers, but it's not like that is monetizable. Maybe you could do something where you constantly leak the lyrics/plot to the public, making them public domain before the artist can publish or record, thus constantly destroying opportunities for them, but that is more personal vendetta than business.

The closest thing I could think of regarding stealing a "toreador" type secret and benefiting is knowing who is in business with them and manipulating market forces somehow, but that is really stretching it given how "fad based" many toreador interests are, especially when looked at from the immortal undead perspective.

It seems the nosferatue are big on personal vendetta, they have a culture of embracing "cleopatras", these attractive mortals who are turned into nosferatu out of spite.