The Salubri moving forward

[Gimmisky]

Hello everyone!

First things first, huge Salubri fan here, if that isn't obvious. I wanted to do something for them that felt significant as I have a deep love for this setting and the lore, and even though I might never write for it in an official capacity, I really wanted to do something to showcase my appreciation for so many years of love and appreciation for muh Old World of Darkness. So this is is the little project that took form.

One of the first things I wanted was to kind of shake the Salubri status quo around. They have always been pretty cool in my eyes but their stories were mainly focused on them being victims of circumstance/Saulot/Tremere and the two castes being very solidified as separate entities forever destined to remain broken and apart.

So inspired by the little writing in Dark Ages that described a possible future where the Salubri were not hunted down to extinction, I was wondering if there was a possibility where they could organically rejoin in the future of the game/story. I came up with a lot of stuff, interactions between the Seven, Adonai, changes in philosophy and kind of shifted the Healers and Warriors into a more... Inquisitor/Paladin dynamic of some inquisition of Caine, abandoning their past (represented by Saulot, their fixation with Blooding) and moving forward with the Sabbat with a new (but history-based) identity.

Long story short, just wanted to show this: https://www.docdroid.net/Ee64HFk/vam...bri-spread-pdf

Thanks for reading! What do you think? Do the Salubri deserve a step forward? Are they cool as is? Do you like the clan?

[adambeyoncelowe]

I can only see the first page. How do I see the second one?

This seems cool. My only slight reservation is that their reunification feels a bit Hecata-esque. So perhaps you could make it a bit more unique somehow?

[Gimmisky]

I can only see the first page. How do I see the second one?

This seems cool. My only slight reservation is that their reunification feels a bit Hecata-esque. So perhaps you could make it a bit more unique somehow?

I did write way more but I didn't post it because I wanted to showcase the art and didn't think there would be a lot of demand for the text, but I can post it if you guys wanna read it!

That is a good point, maybe I could gestate it some more. In this timeline I had outlined in my head the Hecata had a similar origin but they never reunited with the other splinter bloodlines of the Cappadocians, so maybe it freed space in my head, idk! Instead they became one of the unofficial leaders of the Sabbat along with the Tzimisce and the Lasombra (as I didn't go with the V5 version of the Sabbat either). Thanks for the input, it is much appreciated! <3

[Reasor]

I like the concept and your writing style.

Is this something you would consider eventually putting on Storyteller's Vault?

[SetiteFriend]

I like your direction for them. I'd prefer if it wasn't so focused on their history and didn't tie them as bad to the Sabbat.

Thanks for reading! What do you think? Do the Salubri deserve a step forward? Are they cool as is? Do you like the clan?

Hate em. The Golconda focused ones are awful, with a focus far too narrow on a boring goal. Like achieving salvation as a clan thing sucks and sets them as the Good Vampires with the Vampire Jesus Antediluvian. Healing and stuff doesn't help. The antitribu are equally boring, taking the bland role of vengeful losers, something that was done (slightly) better by the Harbingers. Plus, I dislike the third eye and wish it wasn't a thing.

However, I do like the Salubri as "shepherds of humans", I think it is a far more interesting role.

[Prometheas]

Hate em. The Golconda focused ones are awful, with a focus far too narrow on a boring goal. Like achieving salvation as a clan thing sucks and sets them as the Good Vampires with the Vampire Jesus Antediluvian. Healing and stuff doesn't help. The antitribu are equally boring, taking the bland role of vengeful losers, something that was done (slightly) better by the Harbingers. Plus, I dislike the third eye and wish it wasn't a thing.

However, I do like the Salubri as "shepherds of humans", I think it is a far more interesting role.

I have to ask, How is it boring? People wanting to be a good person for the sake of doing the right thing isn't complex, but it's also genuinely the hardest thing a person Can do in places like the WOD.

I find it strange how people can't suggest the idea of just Having good guys in grimdark settings without there being anyone Super against it for some reason. The tau in 40k, the salubri/mummies/etc in WOD, Hooding in shadowrun, There's always some level of negative backlash when any sort of "good" faction or option is added to a traditionally dark setting.

Personally, I like the idea that there are groups out there with there shit together, who don't have some ulterior motive for everything. Having everything be dark 24/7 gets same-y to me without genuine heroes at least Trying to shine brighter(even if they get their teeth kicked in most of the time).

Thanks for reading! What do you think? Do the Salubri deserve a step forward? Are they cool as is? Do you like the clan?

Holy crap how long did you spend on the art? It looks charge-$50-an-image professional.

*minor issue with the Presence (healing) discipline.

[Gimmisky]

I like the concept and your writing style.

Is this something you would consider eventually putting on Storyteller's Vault?

Thank you so much, I appreciate it a lot! Mmm. I never considered the Storyteller's Vault, but maybe? Could be a fun thing to do.

I like your direction for them. I'd prefer if it wasn't so focused on their history and didn't tie them as bad to the Sabbat.

Hate em. The Golconda focused ones are awful, with a focus far too narrow on a boring goal. Like achieving salvation as a clan thing sucks and sets them as the Good Vampires with the Vampire Jesus Antediluvian. Healing and stuff doesn't help. The antitribu are equally boring, taking the bland role of vengeful losers, something that was done (slightly) better by the Harbingers. Plus, I dislike the third eye and wish it wasn't a thing.

However, I do like the Salubri as "shepherds of humans", I think it is a far more interesting role.

My reason for their ties with the Sabbat is because that sect is the place for clans and bloodlines that are less 'intuitive' and are more specific to the Cainite lore. The Salubri are not archetypical vampires and to understand them you kind of have to know a little bit of Noddist lore, etc, unlike the Ventrue, Nossies, Malkavians and other Camarilla/Anarch staples that are very intuitive. So new players would drift towards the Camarilla/Anarchs while the Sabbat clans are more heavy-handed with their ancient lore that defines the.

I do like the Salubri as shepherds of humans too. I feel there was space to ask how the clan was before Christianity became such a powerful focus of theirs. The judeo-christian mythos is very present in the old World of Darkness and presented as something quite real, but I feel that the trappings of human religion *could* have turned the Salubri into a clan of martyrs by Saulot. So I went there, and this would be their reclamation of their "destiny".

As for the Good Vampires + Jesus Antediluvian, I get where you come from. I feel a lot of people are put off from the Salubri because they are often portrayed in ways people consider one-dimensional!

Holy crap how long did you spend on the art? It looks charge-$50-an-image professional.

*minor issue with the Presence (healing) discipline.

Thank you very much! I put Presence there because I feel it better reflects their new archetype as inspiring/infectious cult leaders. I have this idea in my head that these new Healers would be the religious leaders of the clan so I feel Presence fit well there.

[CajunKhan]

I always thought their one-dimensionality was a feature, not a bug. They were the clan you played when you wanted to be a mystic seeking Golconda. The End. Not every clan has to be immensely flexable. There are plenty of flexable clans. Salubri are there to fill a very specific niche, and that's fine.

[Prometheas]

Thank you very much! I put Presence there because I feel it better reflects their new archetype as inspiring/infectious cult leaders. I have this idea in my head that these new Healers would be the religious leaders of the clan so I feel Presence fit well there.

Oh, I thought you meant the "(Healer)" tag to mean the branch of Obeah(or Valeren if using dark ages update "branches"). Presence doesn't have a branch discipline for healers after all so I thought it was a mistaken placement.

[Gimmisky]

I always thought their one-dimensionality was a feature, not a bug. They were the clan you played when you wanted to be a mystic seeking Golconda. The End. Not every clan has to be immensely flexable. There are plenty of flexable clans. Salubri are there to fill a very specific niche, and that's fine.

That is fine for sure! Like I've said, I'm a fan!

Oh, I thought you meant the "(Healer)" tag to mean the branch of Obeah(or Valeren if using dark ages update "branches"). Presence doesn't have a branch discipline for healers after all so I thought it was a mistaken placement.

It could be way more clear, I didn't even consider that! Thanks, I'll fix it.

[Black Fox]

I don't see how any clan/bloodline who define themselves as "shepherds of humanity" could be in the Sabbat. Too many Sabbat would want to destroy them, and they should want to destroy the Sabbat.

I've never been a fan of the Salubri. Vampires who heal isn't exactly an obvious concept. I see two ways in which they are used. The first is that they are essentially a footnote in the game to explain the back story of the Tremere. The second is if the ST has something specific in mind about Golconda and the mystery of Saulot, and want the PCs to explore that by making an NPC Salubri for them to meet in the game.

The original Salubri as described had very strange beliefs. Despite appearing innocuous, an ST could very well justify a more negative interpretation of them in the setting. In any case, if you want to be loyal to their original interpretation, it's very hard to overcome their very strange organization and beliefs and how that is either perpetuated or changed.

[CajunKhan]

Shepherds aren't really pro-sheep. They control sheep so that they can be harvested for wool or meat. If anything, the Tzims would have the best claim to being shepherds, followed by the Ventrue.

[Gimmisky]

I don't see how any clan/bloodline who define themselves as "shepherds of humanity" could be in the Sabbat. Too many Sabbat would want to destroy them, and they should want to destroy the Sabbat.

The idea behind it would be that just because you have someone take care of cattle for survival purposes they do not develop any sort of emotional connection or see food as anything but food! In this way they would be very different from your usual Sabbat but not exactly antithetical to the sect. Food/supplies are essential in any war, right?

That's just my take on them!

[Black Fox]

As originally written, the Salubri were extremely concerned about the state of people's souls. And one of the reasons the Salubri viewed the Sabbat as more evil than the Camarilla was that the Sabbat destroyed their own souls because of the evil they committed. Yes, the Salubri fed on humans, but only "willing" humans whom they heavily instructed in their philosophy. What are they going to do when they attend their first Palla Grande? And Golconda was their prime objective - which the Sabbat completely denies.

As written you've completely changed the Salubri in some very important ways. That's fine as an ST. We all have different tastes, and I change plenty of canon myself. But I think your writing is incompatible with the original Salubri.

You have very nice art though.

[SetiteFriend]

I have to ask, How is it boring? People wanting to be a good person for the sake of doing the right thing isn't complex, but it's also genuinely the hardest thing a person Can do in places like the WOD.

I find it strange how people can't suggest the idea of just Having good guys in grimdark settings without there being anyone Super against it for some reason. The tau in 40k, the salubri/mummies/etc in WOD, Hooding in shadowrun, There's always some level of negative backlash when any sort of "good" faction or option is added to a traditionally dark setting.

Personally, I like the idea that there are groups out there with there shit together, who don't have some ulterior motive for everything. Having everything be dark 24/7 gets same-y to me without genuine heroes at least Trying to shine brighter(even if they get their teeth kicked in most of the time).

Because as a Clan, and playable option, it doesn't make for a good setting. You have your average vampires, and then you have the vampires that are better by virtue of their embrace. No clan should be inherently more evil or good. You can have good vampires without a dedicated Good Guy clan.

Plus I don't do WoD as grimdark, as I don't think there is any gain from making the world worse than it already is. There are nice people out there, but they aren't generally members of the United Nice-People Faction (trademark pending).

My reason for their ties with the Sabbat is because that sect is the place for clans and bloodlines that are less 'intuitive' and are more specific to the Cainite lore. The Salubri are not archetypical vampires and to understand them you kind of have to know a little bit of Noddist lore, etc, unlike the Ventrue, Nossies, Malkavians and other Camarilla/Anarch staples that are very intuitive. So new players would drift towards the Camarilla/Anarchs while the Sabbat clans are more heavy-handed with their ancient lore that defines the.

I do like the Salubri as shepherds of humans too. I feel there was space to ask how the clan was before Christianity became such a powerful focus of theirs. The judeo-christian mythos is very present in the old World of Darkness and presented as something quite real, but I feel that the trappings of human religion *could* have turned the Salubri into a clan of martyrs by Saulot. So I went there, and this would be their reclamation of their "destiny".

As for the Good Vampires + Jesus Antediluvian, I get where you come from. I feel a lot of people are put off from the Salubri because they are often portrayed in ways people consider one-dimensional!

That goes into some of my problems with the Sabbat, but tis not the thread to get into it. To put it short, I don't think locking so much stuff to Sabbat only is good game design, nor is making stuff mainly defined by metaplot.

A vampire as a shepherd isn't the most straightforward archetype, but not hard with all the talks of Kine and herds done by vampires.

But yeah, if the Salubri had always been focused on herding the humans as their flock, healing them so they can continue feeding, they would have been far more likable.