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Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 "Not impossible for 2023 release"

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  • Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 "Not impossible for 2023 release"

    In an interview with Swedish website Privata Affärer (opens in new tab) earlier this month, Paradox Interactive CEO Fredrik Wester (who is also the company's resident Great Old One according to his Twitter bio (opens in new tab)) was asked about the status of the much-delayed Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2. Via Google Translate, he said that the company "will probably be able to set a launch date for this game reasonably soon" and called a 2023 launch "absolutely not impossible".

    When it was first announced, the Hardsuit Labs-developed vampire RPG had a release date of March 2020. We were excited for Bloodlines 2 when it was revealed, but a year later lead writer Brian Mitsoda and creative director Ka'ai Cluney had been fired, and senior narrative designer Cara Ellison left too, after which its release was delayed indefinitely.

    When that version of the game was canceled, the project was almost dropped completely, but publisher Paradox decided to give it a second chance on unlife with a new studio, though Paradox hasn't said yet what studio that is.

    "If you look at the pipeline, we've been a little cautious about announcing things because we got burned a little bit on Bloodlines 2", Wester told Privata Affärer, suggesting that its date was made public just a little bit early. "We've said we're not going to release anything until we're pretty sure of an absolute launch date or at least a launch month," he added.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 11-11-2022, 09:55 AM.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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  • #2
    My mind is telling me that this will turn into a crock of shit who will forever taint the memory of bloodlines and likely kill the franchise (even more than the tabletop did) as a whole but the heart is wishing for this to turn into a goty, dammit! why can't find another rpg franchise to simp for?
    Last edited by Newb95; 11-11-2022, 09:51 AM. Reason: Typos

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    • #3
      So it's absolutely not impossible that could maybe come out in 2023.

      Is it really wise to sound so confident?

      Honestly though with Mitsoda out of the picture, I don't know that I'll even want to buy it. I might wait a few years until it's on a $5 Steam sale or something unless it gets the most absolutely hyped up and rave reviews.

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      • #4
        I'm not even sure how I feel about this. After everything that V5 was and everything that happened to VtmB2's devlopment, it seems weird to me to say 'It could come out in 2023 even!' I think its wise to say they are not going to make a release date annoncment until its a month out but, its weird to then state a possible release date?

        "Absolutely not impossible" is by no means the strongest phrase to state but, it's still a date that 'could' happen at least according to this.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
          So it's absolutely not impossible that could maybe come out in 2023.

          Is it really wise to sound so confident?

          Honestly though with Mitsoda out of the picture, I don't know that I'll even want to buy it. I might wait a few years until it's on a $5 Steam sale or something unless it gets the most absolutely hyped up and rave reviews.
          I'm curious if Mitsoda's work has been reincorporated or not.

          And yes, it seems like they want to make sure people understand the game's work is continuing apace.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            knowing a little something about how games are made, I'm really not sure why they're having so much difficulty.


            Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
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            • #7
              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
              And yes, it seems like they want to make sure people understand the game's work is continuing apace.
              You'd imagine a company of their size would know that this is the opposite though. A very publicly delayed game, that's been moved into "yes we're still making it because we have to keep it top secret mode, and it'll be out sometime between 2023 and 2523, but hey, that means maybe 2023," is not actually reassuring to fans. Why should we trust that it's not going to get restarted again some time in mid-2023? Because Wester says so after... building up a bunch of hype last time and then failing to deliver?

              There's no way to have their cake and eat it too here. Either they need to be really open about development so people can see what's happening and trust that Paradox really is working on the game in earnest even if it will still be awhile, or they can tell us to wait and see and express confidence that the negativity of silence will be replaced by positive hype once the game is actually done.

              Trying to do both doesn't work. The silence mode isn't some sort of objectively wrong choice here.... but they need to have the discipline to stay silent about it even if that sucks because they know they have a good game and want to share to assure fans, but teasing things now will ruin the whole silent method.
              Last edited by Heavy Arms; 11-11-2022, 07:21 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                knowing a little something about how games are made, I'm really not sure why they're having so much difficulty.

                Mitsoda wrote all of the main quest dialogue and the storyline. Chris Avellone had written the side quests. Between the two of them they had written something like 90% of the game. Hardsuit Labs decided to throw their work out, which basically meant starting the game over from scratch. They still had art assets and music but that was about it. They needed to hire new writers to write a new story, new side content and new dialogue. But finding new writers on the spur of the moment and getting them to write dialogue and plot a story outline for a video game takes a long, long time. Meanwhile, everyone else was basically sitting on their thumbs waiting for the new writers to finish up. Then once the writing was done, then the artists could start tying existing art assets to the new story, and they could rehire voice actors to record the new dialogue.

                Getting rid of Mitsoda and Avellone and all of the writing and the storyline didn't mean that the studio was starting over entirely from scratch, since they still had the existing artwork and music done, but still it probably forced them to restart from around the 25% mark.

                Then, Paradox took the project away from Hardsuit Labs and gave it to a third company. It's going to take the new company months just to look through the code and figure out what they can use and what they want to scrap before they can even get started doing anything.

                Best case scenario is if the company has access to an earlier version of the game from before Mitsoda and Avellone's writing was removed, and access to script, and decides to simply continue the earlier version of the game, that could potentially get things done fairly quickly. But if they don't have access to that material and have to hire a new writing team and basically start from scratch, then I think 2023 is a very generous estimate for a release.

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                • #9
                  The last thing I had heard about Avellone unless I'm getting people crossed up was he wrote early material that was never actually used according to Paradox.


                  Not returning to the forums, just stopping in for a moment. CofD not getting books so we can get fed WoD5e is an insult.

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                  • #10
                    Could be. Whatever the case it sounded like the new developer was basically stuck recreating the game, if not from scratch, then pretty close to it. Finding new writers to come up with a storyline and get the dialogue and text written was definitely a major issue.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                      knowing a little something about how games are made, I'm really not sure why they're having so much difficulty.
                      Chris Avellone indicated the whole thing collapsed because they tried to remove his section of the writing after his controversy, apparently not bothering to note before they fired him he wrote most of the game.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #12
                        I double checked and yeah Paradox did have a statement saying that his material did not make it into the game. And while I have no love for Paradox, I'm not inclined to trust Avellone about much anything.

                        Edit: "Both things being true." doesn't really hold water as Avellone's and Paradox's comments about his content contribution are in major opposition to each other.

                        And I personally am not terribly interested in going deeply down a rabbit hole of speculation predicated on information we're not privy to. And again, as much as I don't care for Paradox I have no real reason to accept Avellone's self aggrandizing commentary.
                        Last edited by TyrannicalRabbit; 11-12-2022, 01:04 PM.


                        Not returning to the forums, just stopping in for a moment. CofD not getting books so we can get fed WoD5e is an insult.

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                        • #13
                          It's possible both things are true.

                          Avonelle was hired to do the side content and wrote all of it. They decided not to use his work but didn't have any other writers producing usable content so without his material they had nothing. Suddenly they had to scramble to find someone to write that stuff and, as Avellone said it took him about 2 and a half years to do all of that writing, it was going to take their new writer a comparable amount of time.

                          So Avellone could be correct in that the game imploded when they decided not to use his writing and then had nothing to use. And then Paradox could also correct when they say that Avellone's writing didn't make it into the game.

                          Avellone may not have known how much work had been done to incorporate his writing into the game, and may not have known how far into alpha or beta builds the game got, and so his saying that his writing was "removed" rather than "never incorporated" might not be entirely accurate. But I think the general idea that without Avellone's writing or Mitsoda's writing, there wasn't really much of a game and this ended up being the reason that the game imploded, is probably fairly correct.

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                          • #14
                            I hope it will turn out good. But I will believe when I see.

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                            • #15
                              I'm confused at how Hardsuit Labs could so completely misread the room about why people were going to play the game. Firing the creator (Mitsoda) is insane.

                              As for Avellone, how did they not figure this was a BIG DEAL.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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