Do you think VTM will ever become mainstream?

[Hello]

I have a hard time believing that something like that will ever happen as most people would rather play video games and may not be willing to sit down and play a TTRPG, even if it is through an online platform. Many people these days don't even know what a TTRPG is.

What about you?

[Thoth]

A better question to ask is what does a TTRPG bring to the table that a Video Game doesn't?

A video game, when competently made, offers a far superior experience when it comes to combat. The computer handles all the mechanics and rules interactions, you just click away to your heart's content. Now the question of FPS, Third Person Shooter, MOBA style, etc. is a personal taste thing, but overall, anything that takes the mechanics heavy lifting off the Players is a good thing.

What a TTRPG or Online TTRPG does better than a video game is narrative options. If you want to play out a story where it is horror, depression, and nothing but picking the lesser of a dozen evils, you can. But you can take the same rules and mechanics and run a game that is practically a vampire superheroes game, or run an anime inspired slapstick game.

But here is the problem, most people are tired, they are stressed out, they have limited time to themselves for gaming. When you are in that sort of state, you are looking for a round or two of Vampire Survivors which can be played with one thumb stick. They won't have the energy or interest in playing out a sprawling epic of empire building, sagas of love and betrayal, or whatever else players can't get out of playing a few rounds of Dota or Smite.

Be it VtM or D&D, the main issue is that to be truly mainstream, mechanics need to support both the brain dead just want to chill for an hour before going to sleep crowd and support those rarer individuals who can allocate the mental energy and time to run games for 6+ hours multiple times a week. If anything, this is why RP streams like Critical Role is popular, it allows a viewer to participate in a game without putting energy into it.

[Heavy Arms]

What are your metrics for mainstream? TTRPGs are more mainstream now than they've ever been. Even if most people have never played one, they can recognize D&D being played if it's happening in a film or TV show. Major IPs that have no need to branch out into the TTRPG realm to maintain their brands are getting TTRPG books right now.

Video game are more popular for a lot of reasons: one of which is that everything from Candy Crush to Dark Souls falls into that umbrella. Casual 'brain dead' games can be on your Steam account next to incredibly mentally intense ones. The more popular RPGs are more intense ones, and thus casual ones aren't really thought about by most people if they need something easy and lowkey; but those TTRPGs do exist.

Though I don't agree with Thoth's pessimism. People want social experiences with other people. The pandemic has made that more true, not less. Shifting values among younger generations are also shifting in the same direction: experiences over "stuff."

[Ragged Robin]

Lol no. Not in its current state anyway, they can't even generate mass appeal in their own fandom for 5th ed. 6th would have to be an absolute banger to even move towards that.

[Bluecho]

It would also help if VtM could get another major video game, to revive brand recognition. Much like how a whole generation of people knew about VtM through the original Bloodlines.

If the sequel ever actually materializes, it might do it. IF.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Humans have been telling eachother stories for thousands of years. These "Vidya games" are just a fad, like personal cars. (off topic: moving away from cars seems to be a small and positive trend)


VTM really is an amazing thing for a generation of doomers, but unfortunately the last edition has really succeeded in making a divisive product and sacrificed it's mass appeal. IF the WoD gets it's act together, I see no reason why it won't be a huge thing 20 years from now, but until then...

[Heavy Arms]

The appetite is certainly out there. Bloodhunt hit 29K people on its best day. It might not have lasted, but the brand brought a pretty big number of people into a new game in an insanely crowded part of the video game market. As I linked to in a different thread Swansong got panned last year; but lets be honest the "worst video games of 2022" really means, "the worst video games or games from brands that people have actually heard about." If there wasn't some desire for VtM out there, people wouldn't have noticed Swansong enough to care if it was good or bad.

While I think everyone here knows what I think of the odds of this happening are, this is currently actually a really good window for the WoD and VtM to get back in there. The OGL debacle has gotten a lot of attention to the idea that there are games besides D&D out there. VtM still has a lot of nostalgia value to it. Bloodlines 1 remains a regular game in the "cult classics everyone should try," lists out there. The right product before the window closes could do wonders for making VtM something talked about among bigger audiences.

[Hello]

While I think everyone here knows what I think of the odds of this happening are, this is currently actually a really good window for the WoD and VtM to get back in there. The OGL debacle has gotten a lot of attention to the idea that there are games besides D&D out there. VtM still has a lot of nostalgia value to it. Bloodlines 1 remains a regular game in the "cult classics everyone should try," lists out there. The right product before the window closes could do wonders for making VtM something talked about among bigger audiences.

What is this OGL debacle?

[Lysander]

I have a hard time believing that something like that will ever happen as most people would rather play video games and may not be willing to sit down and play a TTRPG, even if it is through an online platform. Many people these days don't even know what a TTRPG is.

What about you?

I think there will always be room for both myself.

[Thoth]

Though I don't agree with Thoth's pessimism. People want social experiences with other people. The pandemic has made that more true, not less. Shifting values among younger generations are also shifting in the same direction: experiences over "stuff."

What part of my post was pessimistic?

Hard times and social isolation make people want to strengthen social connections, but at the same time the worse the times are, the less time you have for indulgences, so after working two jobs, fixing food for the family, doing chores, catching up on bills, etc. the only thing you will have energy to do is sleep.

[MrNatas]

I'm really confused to what you mean by "mainstream" here? Like TTRPGs are pretty mainstream like you have massive shows like Critical Role and even VtM has one in L.A. By Night. VtM got a TV show made, it only lasted a season but hey it still was on TV. D&D is getting that movie and in the past other movies have used 'offbrand' TTRPGs to how Nerds having fun.

Is VtM ever going to be at a point to over take D&D? I think we are at an interesting point where D&D is on its last legs. With WotC pushing D&D to be a billion dollar property and thus monetizing every part of it to try to squeeze out every buck they can, I think other TTRPG IPs have a chance to gain a lot more time in the spot light.

[Heavy Arms]

What is this OGL debacle?

Hasbro/WotC is making a new OGL for D&D Beyond, but they want to have it invalidate the old OGL. An early draft of the new one got linked and was full of horrible stuff that Hasbro/WotC have walked back, but they're still trying to make all old OGL material "invalid" as OGL. This lead to huge backlash among the vast third party industry around D&D, from people that make custom monster blocks, to big players like Critical Role. There has been a sizeable number of cancellations of D&D Beyond accounts in response (to the point where WotC changed the website to make it harder to cancel your subscription to stem the tide), and despite attempts to mollify the community with press releases about the new OGL, all of the voices with platforms that made this something that got to bigger audiences for D&D are still telling people WotC is not doing right by the community and fans.

Paizo has already jumped in with "ORC" their own open license, with a lot of support from other prominent OGL-based RPG companies, and even ones that don't use d20 for their flagship games, and is poised to reclaim their status as actual competition for WotC based on how poorly this has been going on the PR front.

What part of my post was pessimistic?

It's general very of macro-economics, how poverty doesn't actually stop people from seeking entertainment because it's a vital part of emotional heath, and so on.

[Hello]

I'm really confused to what you mean by "mainstream" here? Like TTRPGs are pretty mainstream like you have massive shows like Critical Role and even VtM has one in L.A. By Night. VtM got a TV show made, it only lasted a season but hey it still was on TV. D&D is getting that movie and in the past other movies have used 'offbrand' TTRPGs to how Nerds having fun.

When I say mainstream, I mean something most people will know and understand. Many people I have talked to dont seem to have actually heard of VTM, but a few have heard of DND. However, it seems that many who have heard of DND dont seem to actually play it. I have only met a few who actually have played the game.

Is VtM ever going to be at a point to over take D&D? I think we are at an interesting point where D&D is on its last legs. With WotC pushing D&D to be a billion dollar property and thus monetizing every part of it to try to squeeze out every buck they can, I think other TTRPG IPs have a chance to gain a lot more time in the spot light.

Very few people, the ones I have spoken with anyway, seem to even know what a TTRPG is, coupled with the fact that not everyone will be able to align their schedules to play a session. Its kind of similar to when you are trying to get a study group together, people will have difficulty finding a date that suits everybody.

Perhaps other TTRPGs could gain a lot more spotlight, but I dont really know how probable it is, especially these days.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

I don't think it will be despite the fumblings of Paradox but I don't think it's a bad thing if it doesn't either.

[Hello]

It would also help if VtM could get another major video game, to revive brand recognition. Much like how a whole generation of people knew about VtM through the original Bloodlines.

If the sequel ever actually materializes, it might do it. IF.

Hopefully bloodlines 2 is actually good, but its already 2023 and im pretty sure a lot of they hype is gone by now.