Renegade publishes VAMPIRE 5E PLAYERS GUIDE

[Knightingale]

The preview is up on Youtube now as well.

I noticed that they forgot to mention Loresheets in the Advantages-step for the character-creation-summary. Although, I had totally forgotten how much of a mess V5 was and that something as simple as a clean character-creation-summary with XP-costs wasn't a thing in the V5-corebook. And in the Salubri-bit they showed, the three example archetypes are new while the Compulsion is a copy/paste from the V5 companion. The symbols for that two-page-spread that gives an overview of the Coterie-types don't seem that useful unless they added new mechanics linked to those. The one-paragraph-commentary on the Clan-Bane-variants is a good idea in providing some guidance on what aspect of the game the Clan-Banes focus on.

[Nicolas Milioni]

there's a preview here https://www.twitch.tv/worldofdarkness

[MarkK]

I would like to add that V5 also works to at least good enough and meaningful extent in regard to playing and portraying different types, kinds, and roles of Vampires. In regard to this the books clearly and defnitely have enough information and details given for both initiate and experienced players.

As long as those initial and experienced players aren't deviating from VtM 5th's at this point pretty explicitly intended core playstyle, this is an accurate enough statement. The actual system is very built around low scale "Hunger+Feeding+Maybe some low scale early vampire street level things in-between", and the main guidelines given for STs across multiple published books now for things like Touchstones are "have them be threatened by something" as far as their seeming place as more punitive mechanism to make sure a playstyle is being enforced than rp encouragement aid being offered.

I mean even the main devs for the game before moving on have said flat out that they think a narrower playstyle is something to be admired, so at some point this is just acknowledging what the writers themselves want with the game they made.

If you're trying to argue that VtM 5th has some wider playing range that compares favourably to that of other editions, the people who themselves were developing the game are not in agreement with you, as something you may wish to consider.

[Muad'Dib]

Pretty fair, like I said the game simulates early vampire life very well. It runs into trouble trying to replicate anything beyond that or deviating from specific styles of play.

I would like to add that V5 also works to at least good enough and meaningful extent in regard to playing and portraying different types, kinds, and roles of Vampires. In regard to this the books clearly and defnitely have enough information and details given for both initiate and experienced players.

[Ragged Robin]

Additionally, after the V5-scandal there have been a couple of times with WOD5E where things have gotten reshuffled in terms of who's developing what and who's publishing what. So not only did you have this flawed start with the V5 corebook but the big scandal then derailed the development of the whole WOD5E-game-line for a couple of years after that. Bloodlines 2 somehow landed in development-hell as well.

But I think stuff like more Coterie-specific rules are a great addition to the game. At least, that way players have more opportunities to customize their street-level adventures.

its been commented that the origional designers intended to expand beyond the core concept-along with quickly firing out w5 and m5. Obviously the reshuffle put an end to that but even with that in mind I'm unsure how much you can expand beyond. A lot of v5 thematic stuff is hard boiled in and I personally don't think the initial design team are actually very good writters for a number of reasons (their dislike of tech for vampires is a bug not a feature for example) but It would however have been interesting to see how they'd have developed stuff like Sabbat play or more powerful stable kindred post early neonate.

[Ragged Robin]

Vampire never had great game mechanics, stuff like the embrace having no cost, no equal/similar dice pools to resist, unbalanced powers etc... The most similar thing to good mechanics is the second edition of requiem/blood and smoke. However the game was PLAYABLE 6/10, easy to understand, and had a 11/10 setting + a 11/10 art that resembled the 90s comic books.

There was too much to love and if you did not like somethig you could homebrew it, the authors encouraged the golden rule a lot and it was one of it´s best selling points, eventually it became a modular experience. As a Storyteller i mostly use my own system and dice, adapted to whatever game i am playing, my players prefer it.

V5 math however is insulting,

• Some times the mechanical system openly ask a question, to not give the answer "like in the celerity section" how fast is fast, then telling you to imagine the answer. Why do we not have a speed chart or something similar?.
• Most things are described in a narrative way whitout a mathematical explanation.
• Elders are supposed to be strong however the difference between an ancilla or a meth like Ballard and Helena is like 3 dice.
• There is a lot of random and intrusive rolls that get in the way of roleplaying (Hunger Dice, Compulsions, bestial failures etc...)
• Again the system is so random that it cannot properly represent differences in powers that lead to players to avoid direct confrontation and instead win by using cunning strategies to circunvent obstacles. Example, I cannot defeat him in direct combat but fire or my ghouls during daylight surely can etc...
• Etc..

And I really like some of the concept, like Hunger becuase it is a great idea, it is just that mathematical execution is horrible making feeling somekind of a railroaded experience where you are expected to experience suffering, throught your character, which is supposed to be a cringy edgy vampire with his unlife and life out of control. What it is the appeal of hanging out with your friends to suffer? i prefer to play...

Note that this is a constructive criticism, otherwise i would not have bottered to write all this, V5 was the edition that could have been, a mechanical evolution with tons of resources thanks to papa paradox backing it. I was utterly hyped when it was announced.

Pretty fair, like I said the game simulates early vampire life very well. It runs into trouble trying to replicate anything beyond that or deviating from specific styles of play. For example it also struggles to work for unapologetically vampiric pcs and ultimately their will come a day both In game and out that feeding will become routine.

This edition of v5 really should have been the one to clean the game up such as implementing robust combat mechanics and balancing disciplines, instead the game backfooted itself by trying to be what the design team considered the 'true' version of the game. This error was compounded by later books however was not set in stone in the corebook. For example the poor lasombra write up wasn't neccissary, but the games thematic and stylistic choices (eg lasombra revel in vampirism and have unique powers) put them at odds so instead of expanding the game they trimmed the clan.

[Knightingale]

I think that the core mechanics of the game are "okay" it's a 6 out 10 experience. In contrast of Revised or 20th which is a 8 out 10. It's very very good at simulating early vampire life-you struggle to control your beast and the thirst is all encompassing, your powers don't compensate for your problem and so on. It's also worth noting that a lot of the bad habits of the edition are only in their formulative stages in the core book such as the no unique disciplines mandate, the antipathy for Sabbat protagonist (and fans) or the Ineligant approach to touchstones. V5 imo runs into trouble with the anarch book which locks in this reductive approach . If anarchs are carrying this edition they needed more going on than vampire fashion.

V5 as presented in core book could have worked with stuff like the players guide (whose imminant release is a positive) within 6 months of core book, loose some of the mandates and a willingness to expand or go beyond on what was set. As it is you effectively have a game that's been spinning its wheels for four years.


I will conceed the photoshoots are pure cringe.

Additionally, after the V5-scandal there have been a couple of times with WOD5E where things have gotten reshuffled in terms of who's developing what and who's publishing what. So not only did you have this flawed start with the V5 corebook but the big scandal then derailed the development of the whole WOD5E-game-line for a couple of years after that. Bloodlines 2 somehow landed in development-hell as well.

But I think stuff like more Coterie-specific rules are a great addition to the game. At least, that way players have more opportunities to customize their street-level adventures.

[Leandro16]

I think that the core mechanics of the game are "okay" it's a 6 out 10 experience. In contrast of Revised or 20th which is a 8 out 10. It's very very good at simulating early vampire life-you struggle to control your beast and the thirst is all encompassing, your powers don't compensate for your problem and so on. It's also worth noting that a lot of the bad habits of the edition are only in their formulative stages in the core book such as the no unique disciplines mandate, the antipathy for Sabbat protagonist (and fans) or the Ineligant approach to touchstones. V5 imo runs into trouble with the anarch book which locks in this reductive approach . If anarchs are carrying this edition they needed more going on than vampire fashion.

V5 as presented in core book could have worked with stuff like the players guide (whose imminant release is a positive) within 6 months of core book, loose some of the mandates and a willingness to expand or go beyond on what was set. As it is you effectively have a game that's been spinning its wheels for four years.


I will conceed the photoshoots are pure cringe.

Vampire never had great game mechanics, stuff like the embrace having no cost, no equal/similar dice pools to resist, unbalanced powers etc... The most similar thing to good mechanics is the second edition of requiem/blood and smoke. However the game was PLAYABLE 6/10, easy to understand, and had a 11/10 setting + a 11/10 art that resembled the 90s comic books.

There was too much to love and if you did not like somethig you could homebrew it, the authors encouraged the golden rule a lot and it was one of it´s best selling points, eventually it became a modular experience. As a Storyteller i mostly use my own system and dice, adapted to whatever game i am playing, my players prefer it.

V5 math however is insulting,

• Some times the mechanical system openly ask a question, to not give the answer "like in the celerity section" how fast is fast, then telling you to imagine the answer. Why do we not have a speed chart or something similar?.
• Most things are described in a narrative way whitout a mathematical explanation.
• Elders are supposed to be strong however the difference between an ancilla or a meth like Ballard and Helena is like 3 dice.
• There is a lot of random and intrusive rolls that get in the way of roleplaying (Hunger Dice, Compulsions, bestial failures etc...)
• Again the system is so random that it cannot properly represent differences in powers that lead to players to avoid direct confrontation and instead win by using cunning strategies to circunvent obstacles. Example, I cannot defeat him in direct combat but fire or my ghouls during daylight surely can etc...
• Etc..

And I really like some of the concept, like Hunger becuase it is a great idea, it is just that mathematical execution is horrible making feeling somekind of a railroaded experience where you are expected to experience suffering, throught your character, which is supposed to be a cringy edgy vampire with his unlife and life out of control. What it is the appeal of hanging out with your friends to suffer? i prefer to play...

Note that this is a constructive criticism, otherwise i would not have bottered to write all this, V5 was the edition that could have been, a mechanical evolution with tons of resources thanks to papa paradox backing it. I was utterly hyped when it was announced.

[Ragged Robin]

Most of the problems of V5 are present in the core book, since the preview and the playtest. (Bad Mechanics, Bad Writting & Pretentious Photographic Artstyle).

As said in other comments the developers just choose to ignore the customer base, when the franchise was resurrected by V20 giving people what they actually wanted: a good product with a reasonable price and lots of content.

One of the problems of suplements and the players guide is that they are built upon a bad foundation which is the V5 core.

I think that the core mechanics of the game are "okay" it's a 6 out 10 experience. In contrast of Revised or 20th which is a 8 out 10. It's very very good at simulating early vampire life-you struggle to control your beast and the thirst is all encompassing, your powers don't compensate for your problem and so on. It's also worth noting that a lot of the bad habits of the edition are only in their formulative stages in the core book such as the no unique disciplines mandate, the antipathy for Sabbat protagonist (and fans) or the Ineligant approach to touchstones. V5 imo runs into trouble with the anarch book which locks in this reductive approach . If anarchs are carrying this edition they needed more going on than vampire fashion.

V5 as presented in core book could have worked with stuff like the players guide (whose imminant release is a positive) within 6 months of core book, loose some of the mandates and a willingness to expand or go beyond on what was set. As it is you effectively have a game that's been spinning its wheels for four years.


I will conceed the photoshoots are pure cringe.

[Nicolas Milioni]

Could you provide a link for that please?

No amount of my google fu brings anything up ^^'

hii,they announced it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOT09Yv9Vpk. about 10-15 miinutes in

[Spacedigger]

Well,for those who are looking forward to the PG. It is gonna be released march 27

Could you provide a link for that please?

No amount of my google fu brings anything up ^^'

[Nicolas Milioni]

Well,for those who are looking forward to the PG. It is gonna be released march 27

[Leandro16]

A bit harsh but 5th ed is definitely an edition buried in its supplementary materials rather than corebook.

Most of the problems of V5 are present in the core book, since the preview and the playtest. (Bad Mechanics, Bad Writting & Pretentious Photographic Artstyle).

As said in other comments the developers just choose to ignore the customer base, when the franchise was resurrected by V20 giving people what they actually wanted: a good product with a reasonable price and lots of content.

One of the problems of suplements and the players guide is that they are built upon a bad foundation which is the V5 core.

[Ragged Robin]

A bit harsh but 5th ed is definitely an edition buried in its supplementary materials rather than corebook.

[videopete]

Having bought the 2nd Inquisition and Sabat book. I have come to the conclusion that VtM5e is currently dog shit. And I loved the stuff that Onyx Path put out. Renegade is too focused on making silly card games ,D20 nonsense and making the World of Darkness more mainstream by removing/softening the problematic elements forgetting that youre playing a bloodsucking horrible murder monster. VtM was originally a very punk game. Combined that with a lack luster release schedule, and a fear of doing the obscene with God awful photo art. This game has a brilliant game hidden in its poorly organized lay out and tacky photo art. This modern revision has no balls. Chicago by night, Blood Cults, God dammit Onyx Path all your books have so much overies and balls to drown the whole world in awesome and we are stuck with pillow handed Renegade as the stewards of this franchise after your kick ass outings with the 20th anniversary material.
complete and total bull shit.
P.S. I love your stuff Team Onyx. Forever yours
Me