V5 can anyone learn Dementation

[Zennis]

So I just read V5 and I’m pretty disappointed about this one thing. It seems there is no Dementation, has this changed since?

can just anyone learn the amalgam power called Dementation that is an obfuscate 2 dominate 2 power?

Did I miss something saying you had to have those two as in clans? In which case then it would be Malkavian only but if not anyone can learn it?

are amalgam disciplines only for those who have the parent powers as in clan powers or are amalgam disciplines available for anyone who has those disciplines???

[Baaldam]

So I just read V5 and I’m pretty disappointed about this one thing. It seems there is no Dementation, has this changed since?

can just anyone learn the amalgam power called Dementation that is an obfuscate 2 dominate 2 power?

Did I miss something saying you had to have those two as in clans? In which case then it would be Malkavian only but if not anyone can learn it?

are amalgam disciplines only for those who have the parent powers as in clan powers or are amalgam disciplines available for anyone who has those disciplines???

Amalgams are, afaik, for anyone with the required disciplines at appropriate levels, no matter if clan favored or not - since let's be honest if they are not favored the character is already dealing with a level of handicap through more expensive XP requirements anyway.

Don't know how V5 is doing it, but personally i would break down Dementation's individual powers, making some into Auspex + Dominate, Dominate + Obfuscate or other combos depending on what better fit thematically, that is basically what i already do in my V20 game, in fact. Along with requirements of possessing a derangement already (quite thematic and universal for Malks, but not unique to them in the least) and purchasing an "Enlightened Madness" loresheet/background/merit" (that also gives you a connection to the Cobweb/Madness Network).

But well, i'm a bit of a tinkerer, i love to rethink and retool bits here and there to enhance a certain style of play.

[Ragged Robin]

I'd just use it as an alternative Dominate/auspex lineup. I'd be up for other clans using them but with inherant risks of madness

[Heavy Arms]

Don't know how V5 is doing it, but personally i would break down Dementation's individual powers, making some into Auspex + Dominate, Dominate + Obfuscate or other combos depending on what better fit thematically,,,,

A big reason why V5 opts for replacing some of the more niche Disciplines with single Amalgams, is that Amalgams still count towards you maximum powers for the Discipline they're listed under. If you want less than five full powers for Dementation (which is understandable given the pre-V5 Discipline getting rather repetitive), if you make it three Amalgams that's three normal Discipline powers you have to give up to get all of them. In the older rules, it's easier because combo-Disciplines aren't capped in how many you can get.

[Baaldam]

A big reason why V5 opts for replacing some of the more niche Disciplines with single Amalgams, is that Amalgams still count towards you maximum powers for the Discipline they're listed under. If you want less than five full powers for Dementation (which is understandable given the pre-V5 Discipline getting rather repetitive), if you make it three Amalgams that's three normal Discipline powers you have to give up to get all of them. In the older rules, it's easier because combo-Disciplines aren't capped in how many you can get.

whatwhatwhatwha.... WHHYYYY?!?!?!


What kind of being in their right mind would waste time with such horrid nonsensical self-imposed suffering?! IT DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF AMALGAMS THAT IS LETTING THE DISCIPLINES GAIN BROADNESS AND VARIETY!!!!

There no "you only get to have one level 2 Ragabash Gift" in Werewolf the Apocalypse or "only one Life 3,Prime 2 rote ever" in Mage the Ascension.
This is "you need a 4pts merit to replace one of your animal forms with a different animal" straightjacket abuse from Clanbook: Gangrel all over again!

Ok, it needs to be said - someone among the V5 development team is obviously doing the WRONG kind of drugs, or none at all (and that's awful)

You guys (girls or what have you, writing is not gender dependant) need to get yourselves checked.

This unfun, insecure, paranoid controlling stuff does no one any good whatsoever in the table and has to stop - people must get stoned (the fun kind of stoning, with booze, rock & entorpecents preferably, pelting people with bricks and stuff is uncool and harmful) URGENTLY to deal with such terrible, terrible developmental problems.


Seriously, i'm shocked that after 2+ decades of the game around we still have to see this kind of travestry in any edition. I'm out to drive myself into a stupor. Try to have your own fun kids. Out.

[Psicose]

From what I'm told the clan can create amalgamations, and amalgamations like those of these disciplines are considered clan secrets, but yeah, it gives me a weird feeling to be honest.

[Zennis]

Fees like they scrapped the discipline and slapped on a bad solution.

[elmerg]

So I just read V5 and I’m pretty disappointed about this one thing. It seems there is no Dementation, has this changed since?

can just anyone learn the amalgam power called Dementation that is an obfuscate 2 dominate 2 power?

Did I miss something saying you had to have those two as in clans? In which case then it would be Malkavian only but if not anyone can learn it?

are amalgam disciplines only for those who have the parent powers as in clan powers or are amalgam disciplines available for anyone who has those disciplines???

There are no 'clan locked' powers in V5. If you have the prerequisites to learn a power (in this case, Dominate 2 or higher to purchase it, and Obfuscate 2 or higher as the prereq) you can buy the power. They're set up so that they're easy for their 'iconic' representation to get them, but otherwise they aren't locked.

Also, other than things dealing with giving Derangements -- which don't exist in V5 -- all the thematics of Dementation exist in Dominate and Auspex, two things the Malkavians get. Auspex has their abilities to see the future/patterns/etc., Dementation itself is a Dominate power (and much much more powerful in V5, since it's one of the few ways to attack Willpower), and you can argue that some other powers like Mental Maze from other books would fit from Dementation.

The only things actually missing deal with the (often broken) giving other people Derangements. Which, Derangements don't exist in the system, as they removed a lot of the gamification of mental illness outside of the Malkavian bane (which is general, and doesn't HAVE to be tied to real world illness, which is a great change).

[Lysander]

I never cared for the Dementation discipline myself and prefer to use the in clan disciplines in damaging ways if needed with my Malkavian character. That is just my personal feelings on the matter and I won't begrudge anyone who can make Dementation work for themselves. But I don't see it fitting with my secondary character in the long run and most the local kindred really think he is a member of the Setites working a long con on some sort.

[Psicose]

I never cared for the Dementation discipline myself and prefer to use the in clan disciplines in damaging ways if needed with my Malkavian character. That is just my personal feelings on the matter and I won't begrudge anyone who can make Dementation work for themselves. But I don't see it fitting with my secondary character in the long run and most the local kindred really think he is a member of the Setites working a long con on some sort.

I know this has nothing to do with it, but what do you think of Dominated Malkavians?

[Lysander]

I know this has nothing to do with it, but what do you think of Dominated Malkavians?

It could make for a scary story situation if they are used as a weapon of distraction or violence. In Dark Ages Iberia they had a Malkavian character that Badr liked to use against her rivals with mixed results. Though in my mind trying to mentally dominate a member of the Moon clan might be playing with fire and they could use those terrible disciplines back on you and drive you mad.

[cgunning]

So I just read V5 and I’m pretty disappointed about this one thing. It seems there is no Dementation, has this changed since?

can just anyone learn the amalgam power called Dementation that is an obfuscate 2 dominate 2 power?

Did I miss something saying you had to have those two as in clans? In which case then it would be Malkavian only but if not anyone can learn it?

are amalgam disciplines only for those who have the parent powers as in clan powers or are amalgam disciplines available for anyone who has those disciplines???

I would say that Amalgam powers that are clan specific could be learned after drinking the blood from one of the clan members. Non-specific clan amalgam powers (Not sure that there are any without looking) could be learned without doing so.

[ShadowcatX]

whatwhatwhatwha.... WHHYYYY?!?!?!


What kind of being in their right mind would waste time with such horrid nonsensical self-imposed suffering?! IT DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF AMALGAMS THAT IS LETTING THE DISCIPLINES GAIN BROADNESS AND VARIETY!!!!

They're trying to pull away from the super powered super hero vibes of previous editions by reducing broadness and variety in powers. It's a radically different game feel and style and it has both good parts and bad.

But to answer the question of the thread, yes anyone with the proper prerequisites can learn the power, just as anyone could learn the discipline prior.

[Heavy Arms]

I doubt that's going to be a satisfactory answer to Baaldam, because part of the problem a lot of us have is that V5 doesn't replace what it removes with anything nearly as interesting. The "Superheroes with Fangs" playstyle didn't happen just because the pre-V5 Disciplines were all that powerful. Powerful vampires make for scarier vampires than weaker ones.

[Lysander]

I doubt that's going to be a satisfactory answer to Baaldam, because part of the problem a lot of us have is that V5 doesn't replace what it removes with anything nearly as interesting. The "Superheroes with Fangs" playstyle didn't happen just because the pre-V5 Disciplines were all that powerful. Powerful vampires make for scarier vampires than weaker ones.

I wonder what that says about us that we like playing such powerful beings?