V5 Nagaraja

[ShovelHeart3]

Salutations, I'm beginning VTM for the first time (and solo) and have been in the midst of brainstorming a character. I want to play as a Nagaraja and join the Circulatory System as something of a general problem solver for the organization, but I'm having a bit of back and forth in regards to the Nagaraja's overall identity in the game. For example, the starting disciplines are Auspex, Fortitude and Oblivion, but you can substitute Fortitude for Dominate or get all 4 as in-clan by exclusive merit. My conundrum is that I'm not sure I understand the direction for this bloodline. I really like the bloodline's abilities: can obfuscate to ghosts, eat flesh, plot murders, solve murders and what I really desire, the big bite with 3 damage. The problem is that the Nagaraja feels like a jack of all (and even that's debatable), master of none and without a clear direction. Obfuscating to ghosts is good, but isn't that more suited to the Samedi, since they actually get Obfuscate? And the bite is great, but why waste this opportunity to make Nagaraja a CQC specialist by having the Lamia instead get Potence and combat duties?

So, with Auspex, Dominate, Fortitude and Oblivion and the bloodline abilities, it feels like I'm almost there, but coming up short on a clear direction. Auspex is necessary; Fortitude suits the Nagaraja and seems indispensable, Dominate as well, since you're Masquerade violation bait and obviously Oblivion, but I don't see great synchronization with combat/physical abilities and they're certainly not soft power specialists. The Nagaraja just seems like a mediocre tracker/investigator without the aptitude for combat or stealth to back it up. Thematically, I do like having access to Obeah, though, because I like the implications of playing as a described "terroristic type" along with being part of an operation that trafficks in misery, whilst being able to turn around and heal folks. I have some philosophical and roleplaying stuff in mind for that.

Any thoughts?

[Black Fox]

It sounds like the problem is how V5 is shoehorning the Nagaraja into something they were never intended to be.

Originally the Nagaraja was a special bloodline created by Mages when humans were in control of the True Black Hand (Tal'mahe'Ra). These mages, who were from a magical tradition that would eventually become the Euthanatos, were interested in the secrets of death and the afterlife. The Nagaraja were important sorcerers for the True Black Hand, and were mainly responsible for helping the sect to maintain Enoch, the lost first city that now existed only as ruins in the Underworld (this is sometimes said to be an isle in the Tempest, but Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand explicitly states several times it is in the Shadowlands somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean - I think they might have been implying Enoch was part of Atlantis).

Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand was a very controversial sourcebook. A lot of people hated it. VtM has spent much of the past thirty years distancing itself from the concepts in Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand (often retconning them away outright or simply nuking other bits away in continuity), but still wanted to do something with the intellectual property. So they keep using the same names but reinterpreting or changing them that can be used outside the True Black Hand.

So the reason you are having trouble with the overall identity of the Nagaraja in the game is that it has been cut off from its origins and actual purpose. Outside of its membership of the True Black Hand and their duties to it, the Nagaraja have no purpose. Even their inclusion with the Hecata make no sense. Every other bloodline at least was originally a bloodline of the Cappadocians. The Nagaraja have no connection to the Cappadocians. But because they had knowledge of Necromancy, they became part of the Hecata just because.

So I would recommend either one of two things. The first is to abandon using the Nagaraja and pick some other clan or bloodline for your concept (if you really like the eating corpses bit, you can always use a Flaw that does the same thing). The second is to work out why the Nagaraja exist in your setting - do you want to go back to the original concepts of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand or come up with your own concept that explains them?

[Psicose]

It sounds like the problem is how V5 is shoehorning the Nagaraja into something they were never intended to be.

Originally the Nagaraja was a special bloodline created by Mages when humans were in control of the True Black Hand (Tal'mahe'Ra). These mages, who were from a magical tradition that would eventually become the Euthanatos, were interested in the secrets of death and the afterlife. The Nagaraja were important sorcerers for the True Black Hand, and were mainly responsible for helping the sect to maintain Enoch, the lost first city that now existed only as ruins in the Underworld (this is sometimes said to be an isle in the Tempest, but Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand explicitly states several times it is in the Shadowlands somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean - I think they might have been implying Enoch was part of Atlantis).

Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand was a very controversial sourcebook. A lot of people hated it. VtM has spent much of the past thirty years distancing itself from the concepts in Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand (often retconning them away outright or simply nuking other bits away in continuity), but still wanted to do something with the intellectual property. So they keep using the same names but reinterpreting or changing them that can be used outside the True Black Hand.

So the reason you are having trouble with the overall identity of the Nagaraja in the game is that it has been cut off from its origins and actual purpose. Outside of its membership of the True Black Hand and their duties to it, the Nagaraja have no purpose. Even their inclusion with the Hecata make no sense. Every other bloodline at least was originally a bloodline of the Cappadocians. The Nagaraja have no connection to the Cappadocians. But because they had knowledge of Necromancy, they became part of the Hecata just because.

So I would recommend either one of two things. The first is to abandon using the Nagaraja and pick some other clan or bloodline for your concept (if you really like the eating corpses bit, you can always use a Flaw that does the same thing). The second is to work out why the Nagaraja exist in your setting - do you want to go back to the original concepts of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand or come up with your own concept that explains them?

It reminded me that I once worked on a concept of making a hecata that descended from a Nagaraja and so it still had its teeth, as if it were an optional flaw, and the desire to eat flesh might be inherent but not mandatory, like he feels the urge to do it but it's not necessary, something akin to alcoholism.

[ShovelHeart3]

It sounds like the problem is how V5 is shoehorning the Nagaraja into something they were never intended to be.

Originally the Nagaraja was a special bloodline created by Mages when humans were in control of the True Black Hand (Tal'mahe'Ra). These mages, who were from a magical tradition that would eventually become the Euthanatos, were interested in the secrets of death and the afterlife. The Nagaraja were important sorcerers for the True Black Hand, and were mainly responsible for helping the sect to maintain Enoch, the lost first city that now existed only as ruins in the Underworld (this is sometimes said to be an isle in the Tempest, but Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand explicitly states several times it is in the Shadowlands somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean - I think they might have been implying Enoch was part of Atlantis).

Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand was a very controversial sourcebook. A lot of people hated it. VtM has spent much of the past thirty years distancing itself from the concepts in Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand (often retconning them away outright or simply nuking other bits away in continuity), but still wanted to do something with the intellectual property. So they keep using the same names but reinterpreting or changing them that can be used outside the True Black Hand.

So the reason you are having trouble with the overall identity of the Nagaraja in the game is that it has been cut off from its origins and actual purpose. Outside of its membership of the True Black Hand and their duties to it, the Nagaraja have no purpose. Even their inclusion with the Hecata make no sense. Every other bloodline at least was originally a bloodline of the Cappadocians. The Nagaraja have no connection to the Cappadocians. But because they had knowledge of Necromancy, they became part of the Hecata just because.

So I would recommend either one of two things. The first is to abandon using the Nagaraja and pick some other clan or bloodline for your concept (if you really like the eating corpses bit, you can always use a Flaw that does the same thing). The second is to work out why the Nagaraja exist in your setting - do you want to go back to the original concepts of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand or come up with your own concept that explains them?

I like the Nagaraja because of their pariah status. They are predators among predators. I don't want to play as any other Hecata because they don't interest me as PC's; I want big teeth, to eat flesh, be good at getting my hands dirty and I don't want the Kiss. Conceptually, I view the Nagaraja as starting over. They were created with a purpose, but that purpose is gone. What remains are simply outcasts on the periphery and their destiny is their own. I could choose another clan or bloodline or be Caitiff, but then I think it would feel just too easy to "belong". Thematically, I know what I want to do, but mechanically, I'm trying to figure out how to get there.

[Psicose]

Salutations, I'm beginning VTM for the first time (and solo) and have been in the midst of brainstorming a character. I want to play as a Nagaraja and join the Circulatory System as something of a general problem solver for the organization, but I'm having a bit of back and forth in regards to the Nagaraja's overall identity in the game. For example, the starting disciplines are Auspex, Fortitude and Oblivion, but you can substitute Fortitude for Dominate or get all 4 as in-clan by exclusive merit. My conundrum is that I'm not sure I understand the direction for this bloodline. I really like the bloodline's abilities: can obfuscate to ghosts, eat flesh, plot murders, solve murders and what I really desire, the big bite with 3 damage. The problem is that the Nagaraja feels like a jack of all (and even that's debatable), master of none and without a clear direction. Obfuscating to ghosts is good, but isn't that more suited to the Samedi, since they actually get Obfuscate? And the bite is great, but why waste this opportunity to make Nagaraja a CQC specialist by having the Lamia instead get Potence and combat duties?

So, with Auspex, Dominate, Fortitude and Oblivion and the bloodline abilities, it feels like I'm almost there, but coming up short on a clear direction. Auspex is necessary; Fortitude suits the Nagaraja and seems indispensable, Dominate as well, since you're Masquerade violation bait and obviously Oblivion, but I don't see great synchronization with combat/physical abilities and they're certainly not soft power specialists. The Nagaraja just seems like a mediocre tracker/investigator without the aptitude for combat or stealth to back it up. Thematically, I do like having access to Obeah, though, because I like the implications of playing as a described "terroristic type" along with being part of an operation that trafficks in misery, whilst being able to turn around and heal folks. I have some philosophical and roleplaying stuff in mind for that.

Any thoughts?

Look, I don't know much about Roleplay in this case, because I've never played Nagaraja, it would have to be an adventure specially made for him, I think. Now as for using a character in combat, my advice would be: you use an Auspex point and if possible take the quality of keen sense: Hearing, is possibly a weak point, but it will help you in many situations; in Domination you give two points, so you can erase memories if necessary, the rest you focus on Fortitude or Oblivion, I recommend the first, in my experience, Oblivion ends up failing unless you are in control, always appears light of one way or another, an option is to invest a point in Potence if you have any left over.

Another option and this one I recommend, is to give preference to ambushes, if you are a Nagaraja you will need to catch people so you will need certain skills, three points in stealth, at least three in dexterity, taking the Shadow Cloack skill can be useful. Maybe you need help so getting a ghoul or a minion might come in handy, in the case of the latter you'll need a character with good manipulation or a good understanding of psychology. If you prefer the easy way out, you can choose a character who works in a morgue.

Some ideas that can be useful is to use a disposable mask and cover your face if you need to walk in the street, if a mortal asks you to say that you are sick, that you have herpes or that you have a scar or bruise in the area, in the last case Dominion. In case some Kindred become suspicious and you need to hide your identity, just say you are a Nosferatu or Malkavian, preferably the latter, this theoretically justifies any strange attitude. Some of these you must have thought of on your own I guess, in which case sorry for taking your time.

[voidshaper]

If you want to make the search for identity part of the character, a somewhat incoherent Discipline spread and Jack of all Trades / Master of None status isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd say lean into it- and do some outsourcing. I'm not well versed in V5 rules, but by my understanding Necromancy has been folded into Oblivion. Using Wraiths can be incredibly versatile, especially for an investigator type. You could employ Wraiths for stealth and scouting, while complementing it with a greater focus on 'direct action' for your character. Retainers might be another option to fill in mechanical gaps. A reliable ghoul can be an incredibly valuable asset.

Edit:
To clarify, the idea here is: if you can't make a single character work mechanically as you would like, effectively playing three might do the trick.

[ShovelHeart3]

Look, I don't know much about Roleplay in this case, because I've never played Nagaraja, it would have to be an adventure specially made for him, I think. Now as for using a character in combat, my advice would be: you use an Auspex point and if possible take the quality of keen sense: Hearing, is possibly a weak point, but it will help you in many situations; in Domination you give two points, so you can erase memories if necessary, the rest you focus on Fortitude or Oblivion, I recommend the first, in my experience, Oblivion ends up failing unless you are in control, always appears light of one way or another, an option is to invest a point in Potence if you have any left over.

Another option and this one I recommend, is to give preference to ambushes, if you are a Nagaraja you will need to catch people so you will need certain skills, three points in stealth, at least three in dexterity, taking the Shadow Cloack skill can be useful. Maybe you need help so getting a ghoul or a minion might come in handy, in the case of the latter you'll need a character with good manipulation or a good understanding of psychology. If you prefer the easy way out, you can choose a character who works in a morgue.

Some ideas that can be useful is to use a disposable mask and cover your face if you need to walk in the street, if a mortal asks you to say that you are sick, that you have herpes or that you have a scar or bruise in the area, in the last case Dominion. In case some Kindred become suspicious and you need to hide your identity, just say you are a Nosferatu or Malkavian, preferably the latter, this theoretically justifies any strange attitude. Some of these you must have thought of on your own I guess, in which case sorry for taking your time.

You're not wasting my time at all; thank you for the suggestions. Would you mind elaborating on your negative experiences with Oblivion? Because I've seen a couple Oblivion powers that play right into grappling.

As far as ambushes go, I hear you...but that's part of my conundrum - do I take a predator type for Obfuscate and maximize on that? Because if I chose that over a type that could give me Potence, then I lose out on Arms of Ahriman and being able to leap far with Potence (think of a pouncing bite). They both seem crucial to getting combat utility of the Nagaraja's should-be strengths....

....but I'm stuck with Dominate and to be clear, I'm really opposed to using humans for general combat or a whole lot of other things. I'm not a Ventrue. I want to do things myself. I want blood on my own hands. The way this bloodline is designed is really frustrating. You're a walking Masquerade violation with no Kiss, yet you're given neither the tools to be stealthy or strong to survive. It's like they took a panther, broke it's legs and put a wizard....err, necromancer hat on it's head and said "done".

[ShovelHeart3]

If you want to make the search for identity part of the character, a somewhat incoherent Discipline spread and Jack of all Trades / Master of None status isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd say lean into it- and do some outsourcing. I'm not well versed in V5 rules, but by my understanding Necromancy has been folded into Oblivion. Using Wraiths can be incredibly versatile, especially for an investigator type. You could employ Wraiths for stealth and scouting, while complementing it with a greater focus on 'direct action' for your character. Retainers might be another option to fill in mechanical gaps. A reliable ghoul can be an incredibly valuable asset.

Edit:
To clarify, the idea here is: if you can't make a single character work mechanically as you would like, effectively playing three might do the trick.

I like this, but I'm having trouble with the "effectively" part. For example, here are some of my ideas I had for my role in the Circulatory System:

•If product goes missing, I can find them and retrieve. Or, I could track for transgressors against CS property - think of a vessel getting murdered.
•I could also play defense; Oblivion and physical prowess would be good for safeguarding CS assets, whether person or place.
•Finally, I want offensive utility. I want to be a problem solver for the organization and that means murder and assassination. I want to be able to be effective at wet work.

I have other ideas, but those are just what I see as the fundamental services to offer the System. Nagaraja seems like a great fit amongst the CS and that's where I would like to design from. Nagaraja are described in the Hecata material as intimidating, but they're mechanically not. Instead of being ghost wranglers, I envision them as embodying the visceral parts of spirituality - a bloodline that uses suffering to strenthen and nourish the soul.

[Shadeprowler]

It is not that impossible to find place the Nagaraja in V5 - even with a bit of strech of logic, the Heakata
The Nagaraja originated in a magical tradition, the Chakravanti (the Tradition of Chakravat was a fellowship of Indian eath mages, who later became part of a larger Tradition. The core notion in the Chakravanti philosophy is the Wheel of Fate, upon which the entire multiverse turns. The three cosmic mechanisms which keep the Wheel turning (when the three are in balance) are Dynamism, Stasis, and Entropy, and as a collective the mechanisms are called the Metaphysic Trinity. Theists among the Chakravanti deify the three mechanisms of the Wheel of Fate as Brahma the Producer (Dynamism), Vishnu the Preserver (Stasis), and Shiva the Purifier (Entropy). The Chakravanti perceived that there was a growing imbalance toward Stasis in the world, so they sided with Entropy in order to rectify the balance)
They were originally the Idran, one of the proto-euthanatic sects in ancient India, a faction of the Chakravanti that succumbed to Jhor (The Underworld carries its own potent Resonance: the energy of death itself. Mages who dabble too much in such studies can be afflicted with Jhor, the Resonance of death energy. Jhor can be considered as a form of Quiet, albeit one that affects death mages instead of the Marauders.) during the Himalayan War.
Fascinated by necrosynthesis, they began to experiment with vampiric vitae and the energies of the Underworld.
Seeking victory over their enemies, they sought the enlightenment of deathlessness beyond death, following legends of true immortals. Their quest took them to Egypt, where they met the immortal (porbably a Mummy) Inauhaten, who offered them the secrets of the Spell of Life in return for sharing his duty as guardian of Enoch. The Idran accepted the bargain, Inauhaten giving them the spell, but they found that for whatever reason they could not fully comprehend it, so they combined parts of the spell with their own magicks to create their own version,
As the battles against the Akashics grew more intense, they used a fragmented version of the Spell of Life, combined with their own necrosynthetic magicks and Vitae to transform themselves into Liches, in order to further combat their enemies.
Abhorring what the Idran had become, other death-mages began to fight against them too, driving them off further into the Himalayas. Convinced that they could prove the karmic value of their necrosynthetic ways to their fellows, they began a new ritual that horribly backfired also, the assistance of the liches was insufficient against the forces of the Followers of Set, who sought Enoch that they might exalt their Antediluvian and bring on an eternal night. Reluctantly, the Idran involved themselves in vampiric politics for assistance, but discovered that new vampiric enemies awaited them. They needed to create their own brood of vampires to fight their foes, fighting fire with fire. The Idran collected blood from their Setite enemies, and called upon their gods to destroy all its impurities, save for the curse of vampirism. Some of the mortal Idran then cut their own throats and sank themselves in the blood, arising as the first Nagaraja. However, the purification of the blood could not erase the karma of choosing vampirism - whitch also destroyed their avatar - , and so they arose with a hunger for human flesh,
They fled into the Underworld to escape the wrath of their brethren and the old Idran renamed themselves Nagaraja – the Serpent Princes (Naga Raja ... sigh, yeah, WoD, don't ask) – in anticipation of the ultimate enlightenment they would find once they had left life and death behind.
So basically thes were created to fight the Followers of Set, so the Nagaraja feel an inherent antipathy to them and their derivative bloodlines. They are compelled to attack them and although some have enough self-control to contain their hate, tensions are always high.
This gives them a bit of porpuse in the V5 setting, a devoted enemies of the Followers of Set/Minsitry a bit of a poor man's Children of Osiris way, not to mention a reason to be in the Hecata; except Lazarus's brood, the Followers of Set and the Cappadocians, the Clan of Death never really loved each other. Hated each other and the Followers did everything to keep the bony hands of the Gravrobbers away from Duat, their Underworld - even when allowed Lazarus to stay in Khem, they barred him of the knloedge she craved; tho' tought him some Serpentis to keep him quiet. Based on this ancient enmity, the Nagaraja could fit in the Hecata (with a very amazing mental gymnatsitc, but.. could work)
So in V5 their porpuse could be this; to be the enemy again of the followers of the Lord of Storm as the members of the Hecata
(Originally, after the destruction of Enoch, a group of them fled to Korea and was granted protection by the Green Court, the local Kuei-Jin "government", welcoming them as honored guest and gave them protection under the condition they share their knowledge of Death and the Yin Word, the realm of the Ebon dragon; the Underworld/Dark Umbra and never sire again), Still, a few dozen Nagaraja persist, gathering the unholy secrets of death sorcery and creeping among the periphery of vampire society; in V5 these remnants joined the Hecata I guess)

[AnubisXy]

In his guise as the Capuchin, Lazarus had fairly extensive dealings with the Tal'mahe'Ra, and that would have included the Nagaraja. After the destruction of the Tal'mahe'Ra, he was in a powerful position to offer the surviving Nagaraja sanctuary and provide them an invitation to the Family Renuion. He also had extensive dealings with the Followers of Set, which could give him a better understanding of the Nagaraja's condition than nearly anyone else in the World of Darkness.

We know the Baali have a ritual that can turn vampires of any clan into Baali. It's plausible that Lazarus could have created a similar ritual that allowed him to turn the Nagaraja into Hecata. Ultimately the Nagaraja receiving a place at the table in the Hecata isn't anything too wildly implausible. The pieces are mostly there. My only real issue is with the Hecata as a single clan, with everyone sharing the same weakness, when I'd rather it be treated like a small sect with several different clans and bloodlines available to play in order to create more options for player characters.

[voidshaper]

I like this, but I'm having trouble with the "effectively" part. For example, here are some of my ideas I had for my role in the Circulatory System:

•If product goes missing, I can find them and retrieve. Or, I could track for transgressors against CS property - think of a vessel getting murdered.
•I could also play defense; Oblivion and physical prowess would be good for safeguarding CS assets, whether person or place.
•Finally, I want offensive utility. I want to be a problem solver for the organization and that means murder and assassination. I want to be able to be effective at wet work.

I have other ideas, but those are just what I see as the fundamental services to offer the System. Nagaraja seems like a great fit amongst the CS and that's where I would like to design from. Nagaraja are described in the Hecata material as intimidating, but they're mechanically not. Instead of being ghost wranglers, I envision them as embodying the visceral parts of spirituality - a bloodline that uses suffering to strenthen and nourish the soul.

To put it bluntly and in a way most STs wouldn't like it to hear being phrased, with a Ghoul retainer and your pet ghost, you get to fill out three sheets worth of dots instead of one. This allows you to focus the traits you prefer on your character while keeping auxiliary abilities on your allies. I feel too out of my depth with V5 to get into specifics, so I will leave that to others. But I think the tracking work would be a good candidate to put on a retainer, since they can be active during days. A ghoul also brings a dot of Potence to the table.

I'm guessing there isn't too much detail yet for Wraith abilities in V5? Because if you want to be intimidating and do some wet work, a Haunter buddy would do wonders.

[Psicose]

You're not wasting my time at all; thank you for the suggestions. Would you mind elaborating on your negative experiences with Oblivion? Because I've seen a couple Oblivion powers that play right into grappling.

As far as ambushes go, I hear you...but that's part of my conundrum - do I take a predator type for Obfuscate and maximize on that? Because if I chose that over a type that could give me Potence, then I lose out on Arms of Ahriman and being able to leap far with Potence (think of a pouncing bite). They both seem crucial to getting combat utility of the Nagaraja's should-be strengths....

....but I'm stuck with Dominate and to be clear, I'm really opposed to using humans for general combat or a whole lot of other things. I'm not a Ventrue. I want to do things myself. I want blood on my own hands. The way this bloodline is designed is really frustrating. You're a walking Masquerade violation with no Kiss, yet you're given neither the tools to be stealthy or strong to survive. It's like they took a panther, broke it's legs and put a wizard....err, necromancer hat on it's head and said "done".

I myself haven't played a character that uses oblivion, but I've had a partner that used a Lasombra, although sometimes he can use this power creatively, mostly he only used it against mortals messing with electronic equipment. In a city there are always lights at night, everyone uses cell phones with a flashlight or may even have lighters so getting light is not difficult and the other vampires and hunters always seemed to know about Oblivion's weakness which greatly limits the discipline, so it could only be used with preparation in a controlled environment, it pissed my partner off because something always went wrong and he was helpless, and considering what you're going to do, you have to be perfect or you'll get caught. Also grappling powers are a amalgam with potence

Obfuscate is good for infiltration and to some extent evasion, as you can only disappear from someone chasing you at higher levels, but in your case maybe is better reconsider, I've used it as nosferatu and it works, but I've never had to leave with a victim. It has happened that she has died in public places, but that would be enough to run away and disappear with the body or simulate an accident, for a Nagaraja it would be more difficult to do. As for the potence jump, I presume it's useful for finishing weak targets with a bite, but you'll need to think about what you're going to do after that, which brings me to the topic of you having a ghoul partner. He won't do the work for you, he'll help you with what you can't do, a pretty girl to lure guys to secluded corners, a getaway driver for when the going gets bad, someone to take care of the blood and body parts during the day (assuming you intend to have extra stashed away) and of course you'll need to carry a body this will be much better with two people, so something for you think.

[ShovelHeart3]

I myself haven't played a character that uses oblivion, but I've had a partner that used a Lasombra, although sometimes he can use this power creatively, mostly he only used it against mortals messing with electronic equipment. In a city there are always lights at night, everyone uses cell phones with a flashlight or may even have lighters so getting light is not difficult and the other vampires and hunters always seemed to know about Oblivion's weakness which greatly limits the discipline, so it could only be used with preparation in a controlled environment, it pissed my partner off because something always went wrong and he was helpless, and considering what you're going to do, you have to be perfect or you'll get caught. Also grappling powers are a amalgam with potence

Obfuscate is good for infiltration and to some extent evasion, as you can only disappear from someone chasing you at higher levels, but in your case maybe is better reconsider, I've used it as nosferatu and it works, but I've never had to leave with a victim. It has happened that she has died in public places, but that would be enough to run away and disappear with the body or simulate an accident, for a Nagaraja it would be more difficult to do. As for the potence jump, I presume it's useful for finishing weak targets with a bite, but you'll need to think about what you're going to do after that, which brings me to the topic of you having a ghoul partner. He won't do the work for you, he'll help you with what you can't do, a pretty girl to lure guys to secluded corners, a getaway driver for when the going gets bad, someone to take care of the blood and body parts during the day (assuming you intend to have extra stashed away) and of course you'll need to carry a body this will be much better with two people, so something for you think.

I see, thanks a lot for the explanation. I was under the impression that with Shadow Cast, you get a shadow that can only be destroyed by sunlight and that was a partial circumvention of the problems you touched on. Did your partner have Shadow Cast and still face constant limitations? I also saw Stygian Shroud which is supposed to bathe an area in darkness; did that ever come into play? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, so if I get tedious, feel free to ignore them.

Anyway, I've been reading a little bit more on peoples' experiences as Nagaraja in V5 and it's becoming evident that they're poorly designed, unfortunately. And with Potence and Obfuscate being out of clan, it's seeming difficult to salvage my idea for a Nagaraja I want to play. Unless the new Player's Guide makes some helpful changes, I don't see playing as one to be tenable and am getting to the point of scrapping the idea and play as something else (with far less enthusiasm).

Again, thank you for all the helpful suggestions and insight.

To put it bluntly and in a way most STs wouldn't like it to hear being phrased, with a Ghoul retainer and your pet ghost, you get to fill out three sheets worth of dots instead of one. This allows you to focus the traits you prefer on your character while keeping auxiliary abilities on your allies. I feel too out of my depth with V5 to get into specifics, so I will leave that to others. But I think the tracking work would be a good candidate to put on a retainer, since they can be active during days. A ghoul also brings a dot of Potence to the table.

I'm guessing there isn't too much detail yet for Wraith abilities in V5? Because if you want to be intimidating and do some wet work, a Haunter buddy would do wonders.

I'll read up more on the Wraith aspect when I get time, but I'm also generally opposed to having to use ghouls and ghosts, especially to be intimidating or effective. I'm interested in a very capable autonomous character. I like the idea of ghosts supplementing my abilities, but not having to primarily rely on them. That is essentially the opposite of what I want. I'm sure this is heretical to the established lore, but honestly I think the Nagaraja are too married to all the spooky shit and it's actually detracting from the overall uniqueness of an otherwise peculiar bloodline.

[Psicose]

I see, thanks a lot for the explanation. I was under the impression that with Shadow Cast, you get a shadow that can only be destroyed by sunlight and that was a partial circumvention of the problems you touched on. Did your partner have Shadow Cast and still face constant limitations? I also saw Stygian Shroud which is supposed to bathe an area in darkness; did that ever come into play? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, so if I get tedious, feel free to ignore them.

Anyway, I've been reading a little bit more on peoples' experiences as Nagaraja in V5 and it's becoming evident that they're poorly designed, unfortunately. And with Potence and Obfuscate being out of clan, it's seeming difficult to salvage my idea for a Nagaraja I want to play. Unless the new Player's Guide makes some helpful changes, I don't see playing as one to be tenable and am getting to the point of scrapping the idea and play as something else (with far less enthusiasm).

Again, thank you for all the helpful suggestions and insight.



I'll read up more on the Wraith aspect when I get time, but I'm also generally opposed to having to use ghouls and ghosts, especially to be intimidating or effective. I'm interested in a very capable autonomous character. I like the idea of ghosts supplementing my abilities, but not having to primarily rely on them. That is essentially the opposite of what I want. I'm sure this is heretical to the established lore, but honestly I think the Nagaraja are too married to all the spooky shit and it's actually detracting from the overall uniqueness of an otherwise peculiar bloodline.

He used a Lasombra of the style of the A20 version, there was no shadow cast at that time, but as a general rule oblivion shadows are vulnerable to bright lights, fire, magic, sunlight and the true faith, at least that's how I learned .

You don't have to give up just yet, try to explain to me exactly what kind of Nagaraja you want to be and we can try to balance something out.

[Lysander]

Good luck with your Najaraga character. I've been intrigued by there origins and creepy factor and I didn't mind that they joined the Hecate in the new setting. I wrote it off as desperation makes for strange alliances and they want to survive & thrive and I'm in the camp that the Last Supper was Augustus Giovanni being sacfariced in an estoric ritual the desperate groups who find the underworld being more unpredictable or such and they need to work together to better there chances of surviving in this new dangerous world.