V5 Nagaraja

[ShovelHeart3]

He used a Lasombra of the style of the A20 version, there was no shadow cast at that time, but as a general rule oblivion shadows are vulnerable to bright lights, fire, magic, sunlight and the true faith, at least that's how I learned .

You don't have to give up just yet, try to explain to me exactly what kind of Nagaraja you want to be and we can try to balance something out.

The main thing is that I want to build on the bite. That is where the majority of the Nagaraja's distinctiveness comes from, after all. Looking at the disciplines, we have this:
-Auspex, Fortitude, Dominate, Oblivion

My initial plan was to take a predator type for Potence, get Arms of Ahriman and use that to hinder opponents' movement so I could grapple them and of course, Potence aids in this, too. Fortitude is good for grappling, so the main thing I'm concerned with is speed. Hypothetically, if I was dealing with a Toreador or Banu Haqim, I need to last long enough to get my hands on them. Another good Oblivion power I've noticed is Touch of Oblivion. You touch/grab someone for damage and injury and this too plays into this grappling archetype. And with Potence, I get that long jump. Have you ever played Left 4 Dead? Think about the Hunter pounce - jump and bite, plus that's great mobility utility.

If I choose Obfuscate as a PT, my ambush potential goes way up, but that's it. I lose toe to toe staying power.

So, my concept is a CQC biter. If Brujah are like martial artists, I want to fight like a literal animal - choke and chomp. Auspex, Dominate and Oblivion all seem like they offer sufficient utility for subterfuge and espionage for my Circulatory System Swiss-Army Knife Nagaraja, but it's combat I'm stuck on.

[Asmodai]

The main thing is that I want to build on the bite. That is where the majority of the Nagaraja's distinctiveness comes from, after all. Looking at the disciplines, we have this:
-Auspex, Fortitude, Dominate, Oblivion

Not from the fact that they were a magically created sect of Vampires from a group of apocalpytic Death Mages that found the mysteries of Death so engaging that they decided to become something else and eventually serve these Dead Masters of Death ? That their history ties into a whole holy war of sects that balance between life and death? That they are the true guardians of the biggest cosmic secret that may or may not usher into a New World?

[Psicose]

The main thing is that I want to build on the bite. That is where the majority of the Nagaraja's distinctiveness comes from, after all. Looking at the disciplines, we have this:
-Auspex, Fortitude, Dominate, Oblivion

My initial plan was to take a predator type for Potence, get Arms of Ahriman and use that to hinder opponents' movement so I could grapple them and of course, Potence aids in this, too. Fortitude is good for grappling, so the main thing I'm concerned with is speed. Hypothetically, if I was dealing with a Toreador or Banu Haqim, I need to last long enough to get my hands on them. Another good Oblivion power I've noticed is Touch of Oblivion. You touch/grab someone for damage and injury and this too plays into this grappling archetype. And with Potence, I get that long jump. Have you ever played Left 4 Dead? Think about the Hunter pounce - jump and bite, plus that's great mobility utility.

If I choose Obfuscate as a PT, my ambush potential goes way up, but that's it. I lose toe to toe staying power.

So, my concept is a CQC biter. If Brujah are like martial artists, I want to fight like a literal animal - choke and chomp. Auspex, Dominate and Oblivion all seem like they offer sufficient utility for subterfuge and espionage for my Circulatory System Swiss-Army Knife Nagaraja, but it's combat I'm stuck on.

I took a look, and what can we do? Basically you want to be able to fight at close range so what can be done is you need the disciplines, Potence, Fortitude at least, you also want Oblivion and I believe will need to take Domination to erase memories if needed, so what I advise in this case, first it has a quality that allows you to have a fourth favorite discipline in addition to the three of the clan, it costs 4 or 6 points, I don't remember now, I advise you to use it, stick with Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion and Dominate as your disciplines, it is also possible choose a favorite hunting method and this grants you some bonuses, if you choose alleycat you can have a point in Potence for free, 3 points with criminal contacts, but start with -1 of humanity now we are going to apply this in a build for you to use.

First you with the following disciplines: Potence 1, Oblivion 1, Dominate 2, you won't be able to start very strong without Fortitude, but Dominate will be necessary in the beginning if you need to get out of some trouble. Your skills will be: Cloud Memory and Compel from Dominate, Soring Leap from Potence and Shadow Cloak from Oblivion. So you already start jumping and attacking with strength, and you will have the advantage of Shadow Cloak which is very versatile against mortals, after that I think your next one, if you start as a Neonate you get 15 XP, so one option is to use these points to get 2 points in Fortitude. Now the attributes, I think you should choose either Strength or Stamina as your favorite, if you can't choose go for strength, 3 points in Dexterity and 3 in Manipulation or Wits depending on how you want to make your character. I think you won't worry too much about social status so you can choose charm as the worst status. Skills: 3 points in Brawl, Survival and Stealth, 2 points in Medicine, Occult, Awareness and Athletics, Intimidation and melee weapons would be good, but that depends on what you want to do. You can do what you like with the other points, but I recommend putting at least 1 point into Drive and Investigation, they can be useful. About the points to Arms of Ahriman you will need obtain then be the hard way. What do you think?

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Not from the fact that they were a magically created sect of Vampires from a group of apocalpytic Death Mages that found the mysteries of Death so engaging that they decided to become something else and eventually serve these Dead Masters of Death ? That their history ties into a whole holy war of sects that balance between life and death? That they are the true guardians of the biggest cosmic secret that may or may not usher into a New World?

I have to agree with this. Nothing about the concept as presented really screams Nagaraja to me. You could easily replace their Bloodline with any of the other Hecata Bloodlines and nothing would change. Even the whole cannibalism angel could just as easily apply to a Dunsirn for it adds to the concept.

Hell you haven't really talked much about the character, just all the various powers you want them to have which to be honest is a bit backwards. You really should start with the concept of who the character is and build up from there. Like who were they before the embrace? Why did a Nagaraja embrace them? Why are they in the Circulatory System? Stuff like that is far more important than their powers and abilities.

[Paramecius]

ShovelHeart3
As far as expanding combat capabilities goes, Trade Among Equals from the Low Clan Loresheet will get you access to any Discipline you want so long as it is a Clan Discipline for a member of a Low Clan; that'd be the Gangrel, Malkavians, and Nosferatu in the 'yes' category and the Brujah and Tremere in the 'maybe' category according to the Loresheet. That being said, it's easy to conceptualize the Loresheet in terms of winners and losers within the Hecata as well: the Giovanni are still more or less first among equals within the Hecata, and members of the Puttanesca basically find their niche doing dirty/grunt work for everyone else (they traditionally had the same Discipline spread as the Giovanni, which included Potence, but as far as Shifts in the Blood options are concerned it'd make sense to focus on Potence as their bloodline option). The Puttanesca are also probably the most likely subset of the Hecata to directly interface with the Circulatory since they tend to manage influence over the criminal underworld in Hecata territory, but that also means they're the most likely to be at odds within them if they want preeminence as far as managing human trafficking and the blood trade within their turf is concerned (in which case being an in-house coroner/trouble-shooter/corpse disposal unit for the Puttanesca would probably involve the same sorts of unsavory work). On the other hand, you contextualize the Low Clan connections as relating to Kindred you've encountered through the Circulatory System itself: it's not hard to imagine some Gangrel vagabonds doing work with them and being less likely to be put off by your mouth full of fangs and cannibalistic tendencies (Feral Weapons would probably fit the bill for this character fairly well as far as augmenting brawling capabilities go and having both Shadow Cloak and Eyes of the Beast would net you +4 dice to intimidation against mortals), or Nosferatu wardens who use Animalism and Potence to keep Circulatory System 'merchandise' in line. This would bar access to the Circulatory Loresheet assuming that your Storyteller is going with the usual restriction of one Bloodline Loresheet and one other Loresheet, but general Backgrounds like Allies, Contacts, Influence, Mawla, and Status can mechanically represent your growing connection to them well enough.

Whether you explain it in terms of a Puttanesca or Nosferatu ally, if you go the Potence route through Trade Among Equals, I'd suggest against Soaring Leap; you'll probably want a fair amount of Strength as a brawler and to invest in some Athletics for defensive and maneuvering purposes anyway, and between Viscus and Brutal Feed you won't be going too hungry in combat anyway, so just use Blood Surges to add a little oomph to your jumps if necessary. Lethal Body is probably more consistently usual since it allows you to ignore armor and applies to any other Brawl attacks you might want to make (Prowess is the only official level 2 Potence power and it does nothing for bite attacks since attack success margins and attack damage modifiers don't apply to them). Combining Viscus with Brutal Feed also means that you probably don't really need Ashes to Ashes to get rid of bodies as long as they're relatively fresh (or even if they're not if you get Iron Gullet); granted you'll probably leave bits and pieces of bodies behind, but you could just bag them for your pantry and hose down the place once you're finished. Brutal Feed's also pretty much the only way to increase your bite damage aside from Monstrous Bite courtesy of the Nagaraja Loresheet, which probably also means that you'd want it as soon as possible. Alleycat and Extortionist could get you that third dot at character creation, though if you go for Graverobber you could start out with Toughness and Prowess along with Iron Gullet, which would help with survivability in and out of combat. I'd also argue that Arms of Ahriman isn't really worth your time: it takes a whole turn to manifest in a system where the baseline assumption is that combat shouldn't last more than three turns, you can't do much of anything else while you're using it (a generous interpretation of its rules is required to even let you walk towards whoever you're using the tentacles against), and it's allergic to bright lights.

As far as investigation and reconnaissance go, if you get Share the Senses from Auspex and use it on a wraith minion, you don't really need Obfuscate at all: you're seeing through the eyes of an invisible spirit that can move through walls. This probably means you'd have to invest a fair bit in Oblivion too so that you can summon/exert more direct control over wraiths and the like, which may be rather hard to afford experience-wise in conjunction with the requisite levels of Auspex (even close to impossible if your Storyteller's going with the baseline v5 suggestion of 1 experience point per session).

[ShovelHeart3]

Not from the fact that they were a magically created sect of Vampires from a group of apocalpytic Death Mages that found the mysteries of Death so engaging that they decided to become something else and eventually serve these Dead Masters of Death ? That their history ties into a whole holy war of sects that balance between life and death? That they are the true guardians of the biggest cosmic secret that may or may not usher into a New World?

To me personally, no. You could create a bloodline and copypaste that exact same lore onto them. Before I read in depth about the Nagaraja, I got acquainted with them because of their teeth and diet. That's what made me want to learn more about them because that's what stuck out. Every clan and bloodline has intricate lore, but what do you think most people would think of predominantly associate with the Naga? Also, V5 is a soft reset. We don't know the metaplot of them at this point and there may not even be one. What we know is that they are pariahs with big teeth who live comparatively more difficult lives. That is far more distinctive and visceral to me than ostentatious lore.

I have to agree with this. Nothing about the concept as presented really screams Nagaraja to me. You could easily replace their Bloodline with any of the other Hecata Bloodlines and nothing would change. Even the whole cannibalism angel could just as easily apply to a Dunsirn for it adds to the concept.

Hell you haven't really talked much about the character, just all the various powers you want them to have which to be honest is a bit backwards. You really should start with the concept of who the character is and build up from there. Like who were they before the embrace? Why did a Nagaraja embrace them? Why are they in the Circulatory System? Stuff like that is far more important than their powers and abilities.

I thought I had given some little inferences about my character, but I will try to elaborate.

I'm primarily attracted to the Nagaraja because they are outcasts, debatably moreso than anyone else. They are too inhuman for the Camarilla, too alien for the Anarchs and their ideals and where the Sabbat has to make an effort at being vampiric "monsters", the Nagaraja simply are, without having to try. In short, I can relate as someone who has always been an extreme minority.

My rationale for partnering with the Circulatory System is simple: it's where the food is. It's where people disappear and cruelty is just a facet of business. I think this fits a Naga because their existence is both giving and receiving suffering. One idea I had was that I would create a Martyrs-esque theme (the film) of exaltation through suffering. Since my discipline thread would give me access to Valaren and Obeah, something I would do is observe the individuals passing through the System and see how they react in the face of extreme adversity. I would eat the people whose souls were broken and heal/memory wipe those with stronger spirits who endured. The Naga and Circulatory System are like peanut butter and jelly in regards to the dynamics and effects of pain. It is the synthesis of spirituality and economics.

[ShovelHeart3]

I took a look, and what can we do? Basically you want to be able to fight at close range so what can be done is you need the disciplines, Potence, Fortitude at least, you also want Oblivion and I believe will need to take Domination to erase memories if needed, so what I advise in this case, first it has a quality that allows you to have a fourth favorite discipline in addition to the three of the clan, it costs 4 or 6 points, I don't remember now, I advise you to use it, stick with Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion and Dominate as your disciplines, it is also possible choose a favorite hunting method and this grants you some bonuses, if you choose alleycat you can have a point in Potence for free, 3 points with criminal contacts, but start with -1 of humanity now we are going to apply this in a build for you to use.

First you with the following disciplines: Potence 1, Oblivion 1, Dominate 2, you won't be able to start very strong without Fortitude, but Dominate will be necessary in the beginning if you need to get out of some trouble. Your skills will be: Cloud Memory and Compel from Dominate, Soring Leap from Potence and Shadow Cloak from Oblivion. So you already start jumping and attacking with strength, and you will have the advantage of Shadow Cloak which is very versatile against mortals, after that I think your next one, if you start as a Neonate you get 15 XP, so one option is to use these points to get 2 points in Fortitude. Now the attributes, I think you should choose either Strength or Stamina as your favorite, if you can't choose go for strength, 3 points in Dexterity and 3 in Manipulation or Wits depending on how you want to make your character. I think you won't worry too much about social status so you can choose charm as the worst status. Skills: 3 points in Brawl, Survival and Stealth, 2 points in Medicine, Occult, Awareness and Athletics, Intimidation and melee weapons would be good, but that depends on what you want to do. You can do what you like with the other points, but I recommend putting at least 1 point into Drive and Investigation, they can be useful. About the points to Arms of Ahriman you will need obtain then be the hard way. What do you think?

All sounds good and I'm still mulling it over. I'm also thinking about how to integrate wraiths into combat. I definitely can't take Alleycat, though - I don't have the Kiss and attempting to feed like that would be an immediate Masquerade breach once someone gets bitten and starts screaming bloody murder or bleeds all over the and leaves a body.

Paramecius thanks a lot for the elaborate and thoughtful post. I'm considering all your suggestions and there's some good ideas. I'll probably take Extortionist or the Kidnapper/Incarcerator PT for Potence. Brutal Feed is really cool and I still like Soaring Leap, Obdurate and Uncanny Grip. I do want to be kind of an athletic, parkour vampire. I'm leaning heavily into Potence at this point, but are you sure about Arms of Ahriman? I've read a few good things about it.

[Paramecius]

Paramecius thanks a lot for the elaborate and thoughtful post. I'm considering all your suggestions and there's some good ideas. I'll probably take Extortionist or the Kidnapper/Incarcerator PT for Potence. Brutal Feed is really cool and I still like Soaring Leap, Obdurate and Uncanny Grip. I do want to be kind of an athletic, parkour vampire. I'm leaning heavily into Potence at this point, but are you sure about Arms of Ahriman? I've read a few good things about it.

Uncanny Grip's literally worse than a level one Blood Sorcery ritual (Clinging of the Insect); there is, of course, the question of if you can get it at all (even if users of Blood Sorcery often need a steady supply of blood and may be viable 'friends' to make through Circulatory System affiliations as a result), but if you can, even at out of Clan Discipline costs you'd save 8 experience (and however many sessions it takes to gain that much) getting that first dot in Blood Sorcery to access that ritual (as the first one it's free) and gain another power in the process. Since you're talking about Discipline powers from Winter's Teeth, getting Shape the Sanguine Sacrament as that level one power means you wouldn't even need that hose I mentioned to clean up after yourself when you're done making a body into an impromptu snack, while getting Corrosive Blood instead would let you melt through locks and other inanimate objects with your blood. Pretty niche powers, but another bonus on top of being able to do everything Uncanny Grip allows with the ritual without leaving potentially Masquerade-breaking finger holes in walls and ceilings to mark your passage.

If you're planning on going all the way with Potence, though, you could circle back for Lethal Body as your power from your fourth dot; I'd personally have trouble swallowing that experience cost for a level one power, but you mentioned you're planning on self-sufficiency, so you'll still get more use out of it than Draught of Might.

You can do some tricky things with Arms of Ahriman if you also have Shadow Perspective, especially if you also have Shadow Cast to twist your shadow around corners and things like that, but the stuff about it taking an entire turn to summon the arms is unambiguously from the rules as stated and the biggest issue is that using it prevents you from doing pretty much anything else while it functions. I'll quote the relevant section (bolding for emphasis):

The vampire can do nothing else except control the arms while this power is active. They can also be used to perform simple actions (such as opening doors and pulling levers) but nothing as advanced as typing or controlling vehicles.

It's even worse than I remembered; being able to move, speak, reload, or whatever while using the power actually requires flat-out ignoring its stated restrictions. Admittedly, though, you could have the tentacles drag people toward you, depending on the lighting and landscape (remember that the arms need surfaces to travel along like normal shadows).

Shadow Cast is probably more useful overall since it helps out with Oblivion's weakness against bright lights. You could get Arms etc. as your level three power, but Shadow Perspective is a more practical follow-up to Shadow Cast, especially given your interest in being a competent investigator since it aids with stealth (requiring others to have Sense the Unseen or similar powers to even see you) and with surveillance (Shadow Perspective allows you to use Shadow Cast to slide your shadow under doors and see what's on the other side, for example, or have figurative eyes on the back of your head).

All that said, it's worth hashing this out with your Storyteller to see how they handle Arms of Ahriman or if they're willing to work with you to make it more usable within reason in various ways, like letting you actually use it during the turn in which you summon it and maybe at least retaining the ability to walk at a semi-brisque pace while concentrating on it. The same applies to Uncanny Grip, really; it'd actually be a pretty good choice for a biter if it provided some benefits to grappling like being able to choose a second grappling option when you Blood Surge or roll a critical win. All of what I said only applies to the rules as written as a default, and there's much less of an expectation of strict adherence to them with VtM than, say, D&D on average.

[Asmodai]

To me personally, no. You could create a bloodline and copypaste that exact same lore onto them. Before I read in depth about the Nagaraja, I got acquainted with them because of their teeth and diet. That's what made me want to learn more about them because that's what stuck out. Every clan and bloodline has intricate lore, but what do you think most people would think of predominantly associate with the Naga? Also, V5 is a soft reset. We don't know the metaplot of them at this point and there may not even be one. What we know is that they are pariahs with big teeth who live comparatively more difficult lives. That is far more distinctive and visceral to me than ostentatious lore.

It feels to me that them being Nagaraja is irrelevant to you. You may as well be a Caitiff with a Merit or a weird mutation that could be mapped out by that loresheet. Considering how much extra work you're putting on your Storyteller to include a reason why someone would even embrace such a character AND to flesh out this person as a NPC for the campaign seems like overkill when you won't care about who they are and why they do what they do. You're picking the rarest of the rare and then just ignoring everything about what and why makes them rare. Clans and bloodlines choose who joins them, especially bloodlines that are essentially elaborate cults that seek the perfect members to inherit the mastery of Death as given by the Idran.

Suffice to say, most Storytellers wouldn't be thrilled by a player inflicting this level of work for a whim. There's a reason why in the olden days the Nagaraja were tucked away in the Storyteller's Handbook.

[ShovelHeart3]

It feels to me that them being Nagaraja is irrelevant to you. You may as well be a Caitiff with a Merit or a weird mutation that could be mapped out by that loresheet. Considering how much extra work you're putting on your Storyteller to include a reason why someone would even embrace such a character AND to flesh out this person as a NPC for the campaign seems like overkill when you won't care about who they are and why they do what they do. You're picking the rarest of the rare and then just ignoring everything about what and why makes them rare. Clans and bloodlines choose who joins them, especially bloodlines that are essentially elaborate cults that seek the perfect members to inherit the mastery of Death as given by the Idran.

Suffice to say, most Storytellers wouldn't be thrilled by a player inflicting this level of work for a whim. There's a reason why in the olden days the Nagaraja were tucked away in the Storyteller's Handbook.

I'm a solo player and I personally disagree with you about what makes the Nagaraja unique. By function, they are outcasts. Their existence is more visceral and survival is a different game to them. In V5, they have no established lore. All anyone knows is that they are outsiders that cannot be related to and have an intimate relationship with Death and their bloodline abilities further reinforce this connection to violence. Sure, I could be a Caitiff with a mutation, but again, all that cosmic lore can also be copy and pasted onto any new Hecata bloodline. You have to look at the sum of the parts, not just the parts themselves.

A Naga has Auspex because they have a deeper experience with the relationship between both sides of existence, Life and Death.

A Naga has Fortitude because their unlives are more difficult, so a stout body and mind is required to push through a world that is against you.

And a Naga has Oblivion because their soul is stained by shadows, just as their hands are stained with blood.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, a Nagaraja feeding alone in the corner of a secluded room, hiding away from the world, with a face caked in flesh and blood says more to me than a page full of verbose lore ever will. The True Black Hand is gone. The Naga can write their own story.

[adambeyoncelowe]

(See below. Reposted due to tripping the spam filter.)

[adambeyoncelowe]

As a bit of fun, here's the same character in V20:

Attributes:
Strength 2
Dexterity 5
Stamina 3
Charisma 2
Manipulation 3
Appearance 1
Perception 2
Intelligence 3
Wits 3

Abilities:
Athletics 1
Awareness 2
Brawl 3
Intimidation 3
Streetwise 3
Subterfuge 1
Firearms 1
Larceny 1
Melee 3
Stealth 3
Survival 1
Medicine 2
Occult 3

Backgrounds:
Generation 5
Herd 1 (Morgue)

Disciplines:
Celerity 1
Necromancy (Vitreous Path) 4
Obfuscate 1

Rituals:
Preserve Corpse
Parting the Veil
Death's Head
Impregnable Soul

Virtues:
Conviction 2
Self-Control 3
Courage 4

Path of Death and the Soul 5
Willpower 4

Flaws:
Haunted 3
Hunted 4

It took me a fraction of the time to make this character, but I think they would be far more capable. Note that you could switch one of the Discipline dots for Potence if you prefer, but breathing death on people is kinda cool.

[adambeyoncelowe]

Out of interest, if running the character as a Lamia in V5, you'd only need to change the Disciplines, Ceremonies and Advantages to get something similarly combat-proficient:

Auspex 1 (Heightened Senses for combat, or Sense the Unseen if you'd like to be more necromantic)
Oblivion 2 (Ashes to Ashes, Shadow Cloak, though, again, you could swap the latter with Oblivion's Sight for something more necromantic)
Potence 1 (Lethal Body)

Advantages:
Backgrounds: Haven 2 (Hospital Crypt)
Bloodline: The Gorgons

• Medusa's Gaze 5

Flaws: Archaic (you've recently awoken, but hail from the days of the Giovanni purge against the Cappadocians, which makes things... interesting)

You could also take Sandman as a Predator Type with a Lamia, giving you a specialty in Stealth (Break-ins) or Medicine (Anesthetics). That may help with the healing and sneaky elements you wanted. That would also let you swap Auspex for Obfuscate, if you wanted.

Medusa's Gaze is great for stopping people in their tracks. It can be used both in and out of combat, resulting in a very vulnerable opponent.

[adambeyoncelowe]

Ah, my attempt at doing the character in V5 tripped the spam thingy. I've reposted it here and edit the earlier post if it ever gets taken out of the approvals list.

Here goes:

Hmmm. I've read your posts, and while I think you're asking for a lot (and you probably can't have all of it), there are things you can do to make the character more effective. Just don't be tempted by all the shiny things -- and honestly, that is still a problem I face even after 25 years. VTM just has so much shiny stuff.

But firstly, a disclaimer: the Nagaraja are not a core character type. They're advanced. And they are one of the more lore-intensive bloodlines. And you have to buy them as part of a LOREsheet, which does, in fact, signal that there will be some focus on VTM's lore (as rich and as maddening as it is).

V5 may or may not have done their introduction justice, but the lore actually helps explain some of the discrepancies. If you choose to ignore the lore when it's pointed out, it's no wonder the bloodline still doesn't make sense to you. And that part's on you. (Also, the Tal'mahe'Ra was and is still canon, even though it was nuked. It's even mentioned in V5 books, albeit obliquely.)

But onto your query.

The Nagaraja have never been combat monsters, but vampires were always much better equipped at overpowering humans in earlier editions. So the "serial killer" bit worked as a cool side thing for extra flavour, even though they weren't CQC specialists. Think of them as desperate, creepy carrion-feeders more than thugs.

In V5, vamps are generally weaker versus humans, which makes it harder to play a mystic character that's also a serial killer on the side. But as I say, they were never a martial clan, and even in V5 they aren't really.

They're outsiders (as you note) because they have arcane and deathly interests, but not the same ones as the rest of their "clan". They're survivors not because they're soldiers but because of that arcane knowledge and the power it brings (e.g., in older editions they could literally eat ghosts, which is great for hiding out in the Underworld).

So yeah, this character could be done much more easily as a Lamia (who also have a horrific bite, BTW), as you note. They're the standard "sort of deathly but mostly bodyguards and assassins" bloodline. They used to have a Necromancy bite power that doubled their aggravated damage, too. If you converted that to V5 Oblivion, you'd be set. But I've digressed enough...

Lore and character concepts aside, the main obstacle to building this character, as I see it, is that V5 chargen is much more restrictive and all the Disciplines have essentially been broken up into smaller parts, which means you need twice as many to be proficient. That's why you're struggling to get everything you need for the concept you want.

Difficulties are also quite high in this edition. The expectation seems to be that you'll get a lot of "win at a cost" results, and thus have to settle for a steady stream of complications.

E.g., the "average" difficulty is 3, but most published powers and the like are 4+, meaning you'll only reliably succeed with 8 or more dice in your pool (6 for difficulty 3). You'll be much more likely to roll 1-3 successes, and therefore have to accept a cost.

It's also intentional that you can't buy Arms of Ahriman straight out the gate, because that was always, traditionally, a Lasombra power. V5 has decided clans shouldn't get their own Disciplines completely, but they've rejigged how Disciplines work so only certain clans can get those powers that were previously unique at the start of play (a bit of a compromise).

Nagaraja CQC specialists suffer especially because you can't just sink freebie points into combat Disciplines like Potence and Celerity like you could in earlier editions (where you'd have been able to get three dots in out-of-clan Disciplines at chargen with 21 freebies). You need to pick the right Predator Type and squint a bit. You also can't just use vitae to buff your attributes for a scene anymore, either.

The intent seems to be that amalgams should feel somewhat restrictive. So if you're investing in an out-of-clan set of amalgams like Obtenebration (Arms of Ahriman, etc), you are sacrificing the option to invest in others (like Obeah and Valeren). That's the system working as intended.

Once you accept that, you actually free yourself up to focus in on what you can do. I think you're needlessly wasting valuable dots, for instance, on trying to get Auspex and Fortitude so that you can get Obeah later, when in reality, this vampire could just ghoul a human and make them heal themselves.

If you have enough sources of flesh (and the one-dot Nagaraja Loresheet effect allows them to gain vitae from corpses, which is a lot better than it seems), and ways to dispose of flesh-stripped corpses (something Oblivion allows you to do at the first level), it's pretty easy to top yourself up to then feed your vitae to humans, who can then heal themselves as ghouls.

Better still, you could drop the magical healing aspect, and just take First Aid as a Specialty. Leave that to someone else. Nagaraja are more about death than life, after all.

Personally, I'd also scrap the Arms of Ahriman thing, too. Oblivion causes stains whenever you roll a 1 on the rouse check (in addition to any extra Hunger gained), and this power has a serious weakness on top: against bright lights, you'd need to make a Wits + Oblivion roll to dodge, or the arms get banished. It also uses your action to attack this way.

Doing one type of attack well is better than trying to do several and failing. In V5, you can't really be broad in the same way as in V20, where two dice gave you a 75% chance of success.

That all said, here's how I'd do it:

Predator Type: Alleycat (flesh eating isn't essential, so you can do this for most victims and reserve the flesh eating for a fancy treat), providing Brawl (Grappling), Potence 1 (or Celerity), Contacts (Criminal) 3, -1 Humanity,

Attributes:
Strength 4
Dexterity 3
Stamina 3
Charisma 1
Manipulation 2
Composure 2
Intelligence 2
Wits 3
Resolve 2

Secondary Attributes:
Health: 6
Willpower: 4
Humanity: 6

Skills:
Brawl (Bite, Grappling) 4
Occult 3 -- but technically, you could drop this in V5, as it's not used in Oblivion at all; so consider Awareness 3 instead (for ambushes), opening up one dot for Science or Survival
Melee 3
Stealth 3
Medicine 2
Intimidation 2 (+1 success when using your maw, +2 dice when using Shadow Cloak)
Athletics 2
Streetwise 1
Awareness 1
Subterfuge 1

Disciplines:
Dominate 1* (Cloud Memory)
Oblivion 2** (Ashes to Ashes, Shadow Cloak)
Potence 1*** (Soaring Leap, or Lethal Body if you want more CQC options)

*Using alternate rule to swap Dominate for Fortitude.
**Turn mutilated corpses to ash after you've finished with them. Use Shadow Cloak for a +2 bonus to stealth and for intimidation against mortals.
***Consolidating your CQC options by either closing distances to attack or doing more damage. With Lethal Body, your bite becomes less essential, making you more versatile, but that may detract from your intended focus.

Ceremonies:
The Gift of False Life (raise undead servants; only because the other level one ceremony doesn't seem as useful, but you could easily swap these around as this isn't central to the concept either way)

Advantages:
Background: Contacts (Criminal) 3
Loresheet: Circulatory System

• Tap into the System 1

Bloodline: Flesh-Eaters

• Viscus 1
• Monstrous Bite 5

Flaw: Repulsive (your minging maw, mate...) -- DON'T take Organovore

Key pools (take half):
Sneaking: Dexterity + Stealth 6 (3) or 8 (4) with Shadow Cloak
CQC: Strength + Brawl 8 (4)
Grappling: Strength + Brawl 9 (5)
Biting: Strength + Brawl 9 (5), and no called shot penalty
Intimidation: Strength + Intimidation 6 (3, 4 when using your maw) or 8 (4, 5 when using maw) when using Shadow Cloak
Feeding Pool: Strength + Brawl 9 (5) / Wits + Streetwise 4 (2)
First Aid: Wits + Medicine 5 (3)

This character can sneak up on people, attack them, grapple them and bite them hard. Technically, any attribute can be used with any skill, so if you use your maw and display your strength to intimidate people, you can use that instead of another dice pool. Otherwise, drop a couple of dice to use Resolve (browbeating, I guess?) or Manipulation (verbal threats, blackmail, etc). Likewise, First Aid may need Intelligence (drop one die), but there's an argument for using Wits in the heat of things.

Anything with a "take half" of 4 or 5 is solid. Anything with a 3 is the minimum you need to succeed often enough not to have to worry about setbacks all the time. The 2s will do in a pinch, but you may want to develop those areas with time and XP.

If you're getting any XP (e.g., playing a neonate instead of a fledgeling), you can afford to purchase the 4pt. Merit to get Auspex as well, if you really, really want to. But I would consider Oblivion 3 (Touch of Oblivion) instead, so you can inflict crippling injuries AND blind your target, making them ripe for your bite next round...

I don't think the Nagaraja count as a Low Clan. They didn't historically. So I wouldn't bother trying to get an extra Discipline that way -- especially as you probably want the Circulatory System Loresheet more.

You may also want to consider a Haven, such as a crypt in a hospital cemetery. If you can get a Herd, make it the hospital and attached morgue. Feast like mad on the dead bodies! Ashes to Ashes would also work really well if you made your haven in a crematorium, too, and would probably save you lots of money on business costs.

This character isn't perfect, but can do a few things pretty well. You can focus on rounding them out with XP as the game progresses.

[ShovelHeart3]

adambeyoncelowe
1st of all, I'm genuinely touched by all the effort you put into these posts. You went hard as fuck and I really appreciate it, lol. So, with the help of all your input, I actually feel like I had an epiphany.

For combat, I'm going to do like you said and scrap the Arms of Ahriman idea and instead use a chain for grappling and my primary weapon! Here's the plan: In a couple 3rd party supplements, there's a kidnapper PT that also confers a haven merit, grappling specialty and Potence. I feel this synchronizes well with the Naga's nastiness and the System theme. So, instead of being a bargain bin Lasombra, I'll focus on Soaring Leap and Obdurate, the latter of which is conveniently an amalgam with Fortitude. I'll use a chain to ensnare and Obdurate for keeping balance/reeling in and Soaring Leap for a quick hook and pounce. I also like that I can use the chain's wide swinging arc against Celerity users. GET OVER HERE, bitch. I'm going to look through the material and see if I can bind a wraith to it for any extra bonuses, too. Plus, I can use it for climbing and I wonder if I can use Potence to swing it fast enough to partially deflect projectiles.......

That being said, I think I finally found a cool compromise to bridge the gap between VTM's idea of the bloodline and my individual take. I definitely won't be taking Repulsive (I don't think a mouthful of fangs detract that much from attractiveness, personally) and want to break from the Naga stereotype type by focusing more on Athletics and having some Charisma and social skills, especially with the nature of the System. Oblivion also looks like it provides more than enough general utility and I'll be getting my Shaman King on. I'm going back and forth on taking the 4 dot merit to open Dominate as a 4th in clan, though. It's obviously incredibly useful, but it almost feels 2 EZ to me and Covid has made mask wearing normal in the West, so IDK.

Anyway, lemme know what you think if you feel inclined. Without you, I might not have had the chain idea and probably would've moved on to a different clan (still planning on making a Thin-Blood, though, let's go Blood Sigils!). Thank you very much for all your help.

*bows respectfully*