Intro and the Savage Age

[Coyoteintx]

Hi all,

Its been a while since I've been on these forums and its long overdue.

I'm the push behind The Savage Age books over on STV. We have a small team working on the next two books for the Savage Age / paleolithic Werewolf. I wanted to reach out to the community here to get some feedback on the "line" -- so that we can correct and improve the next two books (and if I am ambitious, go back and edit the exisiting books -- Khara, Naghaluu, and Savage Age Vol 1 [Accounting for the Dead]).

In the works right now we have Ceilican and Savage Age Vol 2 (the Rise of the Garou). Ceilican is farther along that Savage Age Vol 2 mostly because SA:2 requires a lot more coordination (and is going to be a much larger book).

Ceilican is about 90% done. Art is procured (I might buy more). I still need to work up a couple legends, clean up the totems, and it is in desperate need for a thorough edit. I am hoping to have it done by early next month.

I recognize that there are some rough edges with the Savage Age and would be happy to take constructive criticism in an effort to make the next two products stronger.

Savage Age is here: https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr...e-Age-Volume-1

Khara is here: https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr...ribebook-Khara

Naghaluu is here: https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr...ebook-Naghaluu

Also, just a head's up, but I am considering raising the prices for all three existing products by a few dollars before Ceilican drops. So, if you want them "on the cheap" and havent bought them yet, this is the time (especially with the sale on).

[Coyoteintx]

Ceilican is ready. I am building the STV entry and going to tweak it and the text of the book for a few days to tighten things up. That said, like Naghaluu, this one feels a bit like a gamble. Naghaluu was a totally new Fera type (direwolves) that I wrote up because I thought there was a gap in the 'biome' of Fera. I also did it because I wanted to flesh out pre-modern Americas a bit beyond the Three Brothers and the Nuwisha.

Ceilican is a bit of a gamble because I worry that the buyers want something specifically for modern chronicles and when they find out the background basically stops at the Ceilican's imprisonment in Arcadia -- well, I hope they are still happy with the product. I have tried to put all over the product that this is very much a Savage Age product first and foremost. I also tried to build the background and mechanics in such a way that they will be helpful in modern chronicles.

I hope to put Ceilican up the week of the 26th. If anyone purchases it and has thoughts, I'd love to hear them (good or bad).

[Coyoteintx]

Tribebook Ceilican is up on STV. The initial feedback from the readthroughs and playtests were quite positive... but there is always room to improve.

https://www.storytellersvault.com/product/301490/Tribebook-Ceilican

I would really love to get any feedback on these forums from fellow hardcore W:tA fans -- or, if you like it, some positive reviews (those are really appreciated and very important to the success of the book). I've been working hard over the last year to build the Savage Age into something worth people's money and time.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

A couple weeks ago I did pick up the Savage Age Vol1 book. I've only given it a quick glance as I bought it alongside a number of other books and I'm going through them first.

But I do like what I've seen so far. Though I do think that with this you should have started first with the last chapter, minus the last couple pages on character building and animals, as that kind of setting material is more of what you should have started with as not only does it flow better from the Introduction, but it fits with how WW/OPP handled historical setting books like this. Present the setting first, move onto the playable groups before going on to the crunch.

Also and this is probably more of a personal thing, but I really think this book should have focused on the Garou and laying down the foundation of the setting and playing in the Stone Age with later books bringing in the other Changing Breeds. While it is nice to see some of the Lost Breeds get all that love, it's called Werewolf: the Apocalypse for a reason. The Garou are the stars of the gameline. You probably should have started with them. Especially since if this is before the Impergium, then the Tribes don't exist which would be something quite interesting to see and explore.

[Guest]

Question

I read in the White Howler Tribebook that the Garou were divided into tribes as far back as the Ice Age. This seems really early to me and I’m pretty sure it contradicts what I read in Shattered Dreams that the tribes started much later. What do you guys think?

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Question

I read in the White Howler Tribebook that the Garou were divided into tribes as far back as the Ice Age. This seems really early to me and I’m pretty sure it contradicts what I read in Shattered Dreams that the tribes started much later. What do you guys think?

Honestly when we're talking about things that far back, I take the stance of whatever works for your game.

Though skimming through Shattered Dreams, it indicates that there were Precursor Tribes that would break apart and become the Tribes as we know them. So it is possible that the White Howler account could be correct it's just that in the ages since that time, the story has become muddled and they, like all the other Tribes, had forgotten those Precursor Tribes and turn the accomplishment of those Tribes into theirs.

That would be how I would handle it. Plus Shattered Dreams is the newer book so it does take priority over the WH TB in terms of canon.

Also, I had forgotten just how much material Shattered Dreams had on the early history of the Fera. I may have to partially retract my previous comments about the lack of the Garou in Savage Ago Vol1.

[Guest]

I like the Precursor Tribes idea.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

I like the Precursor Tribes idea.

Yeah though they don't really explore them at all, just bring up their involvement in major events and the Tribes they break into. Which is understandable given the amount of content already in the book but still would have been nice to have a section exploring the precursors to the Tribes as we know them.

[Guest]

AkatsukiLeader13 I'll have to reread that part. Thanks. So I guess that overrules the stuff in the White Howler Tribebook about the modern tribes being around back during the Ice Age?

[Guest]

AkatsukiLeader13 I like your quote. And you're British. I can tell by the way you spell "defenceless."

[AkatsukiLeader13]

AkatsukiLeader13 I'll have to reread that part. Thanks. So I guess that overrules the stuff in the White Howler Tribebook about the modern tribes being around back during the Ice Age?

Pretty much. Though like I said, it could a case of the story being changed over the ages given that it would have been passed by oral tradition. So you could have a situation where the White Hunter, the proto-Tribe that would become the White Howlers, Fianna and Get of Fenris, was a part of the group that would eventually become the White Howlers and their descendents retroactively making them a White Howler.

AkatsukiLeader13 I like your quote. And you're British. I can tell by the way you spell "defenceless."

I'm not British, I'm Canadian. My sig is a quote from one of my favorite scenes in Doctor Who as well as a link to said scene on Youtube.

[Guest]

Hmm. That totally makes sense. I forgot about the White Hunters. Thanks .

[Coyoteintx]

Honestly when we're talking about things that far back, I take the stance of whatever works for your game.

Though skimming through Shattered Dreams, it indicates that there were Precursor Tribes that would break apart and become the Tribes as we know them. So it is possible that the White Howler account could be correct it's just that in the ages since that time, the story has become muddled and they, like all the other Tribes, had forgotten those Precursor Tribes and turn the accomplishment of those Tribes into theirs.

That would be how I would handle it. Plus Shattered Dreams is the newer book so it does take priority over the WH TB in terms of canon.

Also, I had forgotten just how much material Shattered Dreams had on the early history of the Fera. I may have to partially retract my previous comments about the lack of the Garou in Savage Ago Vol1.

First off -- thanks for picking up the Savage Age. Happy to answer any specific questions.

I worked up Savage Age in part as a response to Shattered Dreams. SD has a lot of inconsistancies, especially in terms of the paleobilogy. So, I wanted to try to retcon and correct some of the issues, as well as expand upon some of the best ideas therein. What started as a limited project to correct the things i didnt like about Shattered Dreams, has developed into a mini-line of its own.

At this point, The Savage Age basically ignore the material in Shattered Dreams. its just too hard to shoehorn back in, and I think the stuff that we highlight in The Savage Age is a bit more interesting and dynamic. ...this includes the proto-Tribes. Without backgrounds and detail, they are just names without any sense of why they were. So, The savage Age is taking a very different track and focusing on what the canid-shifters looked like before the Garou Nation formed and what events occured to bring the canid-shifters into something like a cohesive community.

There are similar elements. As you note, WH tales about ur-Tribes breaking apart. That is present in our version as well. The Nahau, Bilai, Anupu, Siberakh, Tengger, and Kucha all fragment to various extents to create the foundations of the various Tribes. In particular, the Nahau become the CoG, GW, and BF. The Anupu evolve into the SS. The Kucha are the ones that stay the most true to their forebears and become the RT. The Siberakh become the Get, SF and SL. The Bilai becomes the F, WH... and contribute to the Get. The Tengger become the SG, and three brothers. The BG evolve on their own as an amalgamation of the nearby tribes.

Savage Age vol 2 is going to be all about the Garou and the formation of the Garou nation. we are working on it now.

[Coyoteintx]

Question

I read in the White Howler Tribebook that the Garou were divided into tribes as far back as the Ice Age. This seems really early to me and I’m pretty sure it contradicts what I read in Shattered Dreams that the tribes started much later. What do you guys think?

So... you hit on an issue i am having with Savage Age vol 2. In this, we have a lot of sifferent canid-shifters that are more like their own Fera breeds than Tribes. The naming conventions get all weird.

Though, for the Savage Age timeline, right around 10k years ago, the Tribes start to become entities that look like the Tribes. This occurs only after the Garou nation is formed.

[Guest]

Coyoteintx that's pretty much what it says in Shattered Dreams.