Intro and the Savage Age

[Coyoteintx]

I liked the Mokole in their Breedbook and truly hated the way they were retconned in PGttCB and CB20, as Red Talons with scales who plan to wipe out humanity. The only thing CB20 did right was make the wereturtles interesting instead of a joke, and show Mokole casually eating humans who attack them.

The Mokole Breedbook explains quite clearly why the Mnesis and their own history gives Mokole a connection to dinosaurs. It's straightforward and very cool. I loved the overall idea of the Age of Kings, of shapeshifter species millions of years older than humanity -- despite the problems with the Bird Kings, Pouch Kings, and Sal-Afsan concepts. PGttCB retconned all the Age of Kings to nothing but lies and hallucinations caused by mitochondria, besides badly messing up the Mokole form statistics, auspices, and Gifts. I would not want to buy a series that perpetuates those retcons and errors, or makes the Mokole all evil. They don't even have a reason to be as aggressive as the Garou, on average. Aloof, alien, callous, and not clear on why they suddenly need to cooperate with these new Bete, sure. Pure evil.... no. Why?

I like the idea of making them alien and reserved -- because their memories are ancient and function differently than the other Fera. Thats something I have wanted to push for a bit.

As for the Corax warform, they aren't warriors and they aren't weredragons. They're wereravens and scouts who are not designed to fight. Their warform should be 1. weak and 2. based solely on ravens. The Mokole archid form is unique because nobody else has Mnesis

The goal with looking at the Corax again is to reconcile their connect to archosaurs and dinosurs (specifically). Sure, now they are messengers... but the bird-dinosaur connection suggests they might come from a longer line of Fera with deeper roots than just their modern kin. I figure that might be something fun to explore and tweak a bit.

About canid shifters, I urge you to carefully research the animals involved before writing a book about Garou being an amalgam of wolves and "jackals". The widespread and dominant North African canid is Canis anthous, the golden wolf, not a jackal. For a long time it was mistakenly considered a golden jackal, but it is in fact a wolf. It is much more similar to the grey wolves than it is to the golden jackal, let alone the side-striped and black-backed jackals which should be in a separate genus.

I appreciate where you are coming from -- but it should be noted the Anupu are from jackals. The Anupu of the Savage Age are related to Canis aureus and C. adustus, not Canis anthus. Down the line, i was thinking about using C. anthus (and the himilayan wolf) as an lost branch of the Nuwisha... but thats a different book (it might fit as a hook for playing Nuwisha in Europe and the War of Rage for the player's guide).

The Nahau get some C. Anthus love since they are also, generally, from the region but the Anupu are very specifically jackals.

Ultimately, the Anupu in the Savage Age serve as a one of the examples of how the 'Garou" started off as a multi-Fera social club (so to speak). The founders of the Garou Nation include jackals, wild dogs, Beringian wolves, grey wolves, (some dholes), etc. Then, over time, the heterogeneity of the various members of the Garou Nation start to winnow down so that the likes of the Anupu and Kucha assimilate biologically and increasingly adopt lupus kin... leading us to the modern Garou Nation which blurs the lines between the boundaries of the social and biological nature of the werewolves.

Lastly, I reccommend that you avoid using anachronistic names from modern languages. "Kucha Ekundu", for example, is probably a word in a modern language and it refers to African wild dogs, not dholes. It doesn't make sense to me that you chopped the name in half and used "Kucha" for Ice Age dholes.

We decided to use nomenclature that people would recognize since trying to recreate language from 10,000 y/a isa bit of a fool's errand for a game book. For example, Kucha is a term that players steeped in the lore will immediately recognize and using that info, be able to make some connections about the Savage Age's presentation. Its the same reason we used 'Siberakh' - because it has very specific connections to W:tA. Basically, its a useful shorthand. Its also the same reason we use modern location names throughout the books -- its just easier and getting into the minutiae doesnt really help the book or people's understanding of whats going on (quite the opposite, actually). I bring this up the notes in Savage Age Vol 1.

Also, per your question about the Wild Dog and Dhole connection -- the two were likely derived from C xenocyon (or, at least, thats what the preponderance of science suggests). The complexities of the C. xenocyon to Cuon/Lycaon connection gets some wordcount in Savage Age Vol 2.

[Coyoteintx]

The Savage Age line keeps chugging along! Tools of Extinction: Volume Three is available now. Its all about deepening the resources available to players and Storytellers and is designed to complement (and enhance) existing characters and chronicles. New fetishes and talens. New types of totems. Essays. Stories. We designed it to be as useful for Apocalypse players as Savage Age ones.

Happy to answer any questions or issues that you all may have.

[Coyoteintx]

So, with Tools of Extinction out, I want to encourage any Werewolf players that might be interested in the line to pick it up.

Accounting for the Dead and Rise of the Garou are the two "big" books for the Savage Age. The first goes into depth about the progenitors to the Silent Striders (and, to a lesser extent, the Children of Gaia), the Apis, Grondr, and gives an overview of the Khara (were-sabretooths). There are also rules for playing Neanderthals. It serves as the entry point to the setting, with a lot of advice about how to mechanically represent the stane age/Pleistocene.

Rise of the Garou is designed as a solid companion piece to Accounting for the Dead. It covers the creation of the Garou nation and what it meant to be "Garou" before the Tribes were the Tribes. It talks about the progenitors to the Get, Shadow Lords, Silver Fangs, White Howlers, Fianna, Children of Gaia... as well as the Saaksom Aknami (were CaveBears). There

Accounting for the Dead (volume 1) for $10: https://www.storytellersvault.com/br...unt=9ce1622319

Rise fo the Garou (volume 2) for $8: https://www.storytellersvault.com/br...unt=922586ac47

There are a number of projects in the works right now...

Tribebook Wlewa: Werecavelions -- the key opponents to the Garou during the War of Rage. They pay the ultimate price.

Tribebook [Unnamed]: Werebats -- We are going to look at the Camazotz back before they were "region locked." Their schtick is that they defend Gaia from hostile "star entities" -- creatures from the Deep Umbra that seek to hurt Gaia and advamnce their own alien agendas (lots of Rage Across the Heavens goodness).

A Look At the Umbra -- just as it sounds. The Triat is VERY different in this age, with the Wyld being the primary challenge and the Weaver making important inroads to civiliation and agriculture. Likewise, the Destroyer Wyrm isnt completely annihilated.

Rage Across the Stone Age -- will touch on the canon shifters we havent discussed so far. The other Bastet, the Mokole, the Nagah, the Ratkin, etc.

[Up-to-Eleven]

Hi. Just found this topic after being a long time follower of you on the Vault. I've really enjoyed all your stuff so far and I'm looking forward to the future projects you described (especially the werebats. RAtH ftw!).

Thank you for your work!

[Coyoteintx]

Hi. Just found this topic after being a long time follower of you on the Vault. I've really enjoyed all your stuff so far and I'm looking forward to the future projects you described (especially the werebats. RAtH ftw!).

Thank you for your work!

I really appreciate hearing that. The Savage Age has been a labor of love (and not insignificant cost I probably will never recover).

...and yeah, the Bats are going to be cool. I do a lot of horror freelancing, and am going to channel some of that. Its also a great way to explore the really dark areas of the deep celestial Umbra. Shoot an email to us at the weaponizedink address and I will make sure you get a head's up when it releases (its still months away, though)

[Coyoteintx]

...and we now have a jumpstart/quickstart for the Savage Age! We designed this to make it easy to get right into a chronicle.

https://www.storytellersvault.com/product/336263/The-Savage-Age-Epic-Jumpstart-The-BrokenBrother

[Erinys]

Hi Christopher,

I wanted to just remind you about the issue with the Khara book, that I mentioned over on its DriveThru page (posting as Ellen S.)

Also I'd like to ask about these Cave Lions and Cave Bears -- how similar are they to the canon/modern Simba and Gurahl?
And... have you considered making Bastet tribebooks for the Eurasian Qualmi/Werelynxes, and the Miracinonyx of North America? Or the Okuma?

EDIT: I feel like I already asked you about your Ceilican but I can't find where. Are yours based on "maneless lions" or on some kinda wildcat?

[glamourweaver]

A Look At the Umbra -- just as it sounds. The Triat is VERY different in this age, with the Wyld being the primary challenge and the Weaver making important inroads to civiliation and agriculture. Likewise, the Destroyer Wyrm isnt completely annihilated.

Really excited for this! Is your team open to any new contributors on these projects?

[Crazyjabberwock]

I have recently dived into all the Savage Age lore and will likely include elements of it in my modern Chronicle, thanks to a Major Caern I'm using being a Museum secretly run by a sept of Glass Walkers and Children of Gaia, the inner part being exhibits based mostly around the savage ages, as well as the possibility of memory quests or even using Shattered Dreams Time Travel

It's inspired me to similarly take elements from Shattered Dreams and Expand them more, in my case the Age of the Dragon Kings, Do you have any suggestions to offer on how to flesh out the era? Or did you have plans for that era?

on my end the things I wanted to address were matters like
while the sea reptiles, pterosaurs and Dinosaurs all got encompassed, what of the extant lizards and Crocodiles that were already there and clearly still encompassed by modern Mokole?
What of the Snake Varna that eventually became the Nagah?
Or the one that would eventually become the ancestors of all Bird Fera including the Corax?
Attempting some stats for the varieties Saurid Varna
maybe fleshing out other Era unique Fera, Primative mammals, amphibians of the times.
How did they tackle the rise and fall of so many Species over the eons?

back to Savage age, I came across apocryphal mentions of Falcon and Eagle Fera, Otters, Fresh Water fish and Were-Megatheriums, did you have any plans for them or would I be free to attempt a treatment of such things?

[Coyoteintx]

back to Savage age, I came across apocryphal mentions of Falcon and Eagle Fera, Otters, Fresh Water fish and Were-Megatheriums, did you have any plans for them or would I be free to attempt a treatment of such things?

First off, I love hearing about people's ideas - especially when those ideas blend Apocalypse and Savage Age.

Of that list, were-raptors are coming at some point (the Rapax) - which will be a book about "redeeming" the corax and expanding on their story options. Its a project "in the pipe" - so I have no idea when it will really evolve. We do have a Player's Guide in pretty good shape, which will talk about the canon Fera and how they fit into the Savage Age (including some notes about the Corax/Rapax).

As to the others? Not so much. I have a few rules for new Fera for Savage Age -- one of which is that they generally need to come from apex predator stock. We will have some anwers about, ay, the were-otters, but it will be due to a case of mistaken identity rather than existing on their own.

That said, its a big tent. They might not fit for Savage Age, but they could easily fit in an Apocalypse chronicle.

[Crazyjabberwock]

I actually had a rough treatment for birds of prey before that, I'm sure yours is better, but this is what I had Raptryx: Warriors of the Sky

tasked with Protecting and guiding messangers and spirits
Fera derived from birds of prey such as the, Owl, Osprey, Vulture, Condor, Hawk, Falcon, Eagle or Secretary Bird, Of the ones who exist, they are divided by the specific types of raptors they are into various tribes,
Once also had Flightless “Terror” bird breeds that have also gone extinct around the same time as the Khara, this demise was seen as a punishment for abandoning the sky
The Earliest of them branched off from the Dragon kings when Avian Dinosaurs started evolving to fly and compete with the Pterosaurs, In the Modern Day Metis Raptyx will often resemble these prehistoric proto-Birds
forms
the standard Homid, “Raptid” (full bird) and Icharid(War Form), but also a charismatic “Harpid” form bearing a human face and a flightless but fearsome “Dromid” form derived from some of the same ancient dreams the Mokole taught them about.

I'm open to criticisms and if you like the ideas, you are free to them

[glamourweaver]

If we assume a single World of Darkness, it’s always possible that any given rumored Changing Breeds are game of telephone references to other supernaturals. Fae most commonly.

That’s certainly what I’d assume with otters and freshwater fish.

[grimjaws]

I have recently dived into all the Savage Age lore and will likely include elements of it in my modern Chronicle, thanks to a Major Caern I'm using being a Museum secretly run by a sept of Glass Walkers and Children of Gaia, the inner part being exhibits based mostly around the savage ages, as well as the possibility of memory quests or even using Shattered Dreams Time Travel

It's inspired me to similarly take elements from Shattered Dreams and Expand them more, in my case the Age of the Dragon Kings, Do you have any suggestions to offer on how to flesh out the era? Or did you have plans for that era?

on my end the things I wanted to address were matters like
while the sea reptiles, pterosaurs and Dinosaurs all got encompassed, what of the extant lizards and Crocodiles that were already there and clearly still encompassed by modern Mokole?
What of the Snake Varna that eventually became the Nagah?
Or the one that would eventually become the ancestors of all Bird Fera including the Corax?
Attempting some stats for the varieties Saurid Varna
maybe fleshing out other Era unique Fera, Primative mammals, amphibians of the times.
How did they tackle the rise and fall of so many Species over the eons?

back to Savage age, I came across apocryphal mentions of Falcon and Eagle Fera, Otters, Fresh Water fish and Were-Megatheriums, did you have any plans for them or would I be free to attempt a treatment of such things?

The Age of the Dragon Kings is one of my future projects for the Savage Age, need to clear the decks first.

I plan on touching on the marine reptiles pre WonderWork, what we are calling Deep Time, in my oceans supplement, but yes there are separate Varna for the ichthyosaurs and sauropterygians. Ao and Kratii (sea snakes) varnas will show up in the Players Guide (coming soon), and we have made the Nagah part of the Mokole who split off a long time ago.

Corax are being workd on as well, but I am not part of that project so you would need to get details from Coyoteintx .

The apocryphal Fera, I think, we are leaving alone for the most part, for now.

[Crazyjabberwock]

Noted, I'll hold off on my own takes until I see what you make and probably incorporate it into my own projects later

[Erinys]

Hi Christopher,Also I'd like to ask about these Cave Lions and Cave Bears -- how similar are they to the canon/modern Simba and Gurahl?
And... have you considered making Bastet tribebooks for the Eurasian Qualmi/Werelynxes, and the Miracinonyx of North America? Or the Okuma?

EDIT: I feel like I already asked you about your Ceilican but I can't find where. Are yours based on "maneless lions" or on some kinda wildcat?

Could you please clarify these for me?

There were some very cool were-raptor projects started on ShadownEssence. The interpretations of their purpose for Gaia varied but always included being warriors of the skies, compared to Garou and Ajaba as warriors on the ground. One version included a strong prophetic part to their purpose: they are the primary recipients of prophecies of the future, and in addition to using that information for their own battles they were supposed to share that info with other Fera as necessary. I also connected my version to the Phoenix.