Ok....apparently we are going full Forsaken.

[Crytash2]

The Fenris are my favourite clan, as I live around 20km from their Caern in the Black forest. I am disappointed and sad. I guess the World of Darkness that I know has now actually completely ended and was replaced with something I can not identify with.

[Ragged Robin]

Personally I'm still scratching my head about what specifically needed re-imagening. The setting has been largely consistant and is as culturally relavent now as it was in the 90's. What werewolf probably needs was a robust combat system and more sensitive writting for ethnic tribes, not a re invention of the wheel and get players getting screwed.

[Knightingale]

Aside from the cultural issues, it also strikes me how this Ban/Favor-dynamic can run into the same issue that H5 did with its Creeds and Creed-Fields. Because the Creed-Fields in H5 aren't balanced. There are clearly Creeds that let you use your Desperation-Dice more often than others. And W5 could run into the same issue with how the Bans are inconsistent in how limiting/punishing they are.

[Heavy Arms]

Well, the favor/ban model does seem like something destined to draw comparisons to Forsaken, as Forsaken 2e gives each Tribe (beyond the aforementioned favored Renown) a unique bonus when performing their sacred hunt, and a Ban.

Though, in all fairness, players of WtA have been asking for a ban model of Tribal weaknesses instead of the optional flaw model in WtA for at least 25 years. This a pretty obvious idea for helping flavor things in the base-line animist concept underlying the games.

-----------------

We knew the Fenrir and Stargazers were the ones most likely to get axed when we were told two were getting dropped. No new feel there, including who wasn't dropped.

The name changes for the two Brothers are fine.

The Patron changes are all iffy to me.

Moving the Black Furies to "Gorgon" feels odd. Gorgon describing three individual entities. It's an odd choice that's not nearly as broad as the rest, and not a specific thing one the other side either. It also feels like a red flag for reverting the Furies to their 1e ill-written stereotypes; esp. after how the Furies got treated in W20 Changing Ways, and with Pegasus's issues around gender identity no longer being part of the Tribe's path forward in a new era. I do not want to see Black Furies returning to be man-hating TERFs.

Spider just seems strange. Either the Glass Walkers are going full Weaver, or they're planning on changing the spiritual landscape of WtA so vastly to make Spider a viable Gaian Totem than no amount of disclaimers are going to keep "legacy" fans happy with what the game turns out to be while still barring the name Apocalypse.

Thunder and North Wind feel like an odd aesthetic fit, since they're the only two out of eleven that aren't an animal or mythological creature; so I'm not sure what the point of that really is.

And of course Horned Serpent is missing the point as much as North Wind is. Horned Serpent is certainly a better choice than Uktena, but Uktena is a specific Native name for the idea of Horned Serpent in the first place. They just translated the name into English so they can claim a broader spectrum of sources (Horned Serpent is a varied and wide spread mythological entity) with minimal actual look at why Uktena wasn't a good idea in the first place. But I guess the new Tribe names are good, if superficial, starts. They were willing to ax the Crinos-born completely rather than just change the name, but aren't willing to do more than adjust some names here?.

[Helur]

The Galestalkers' ban being dark is so much of a problem as going from "Western Depiction a Native American Spirit" to ... "Western Depiction a Native American Spirit." The Tribe and Totem not being called Wendigo isn't the heart of the issue.

"(If you’re a player familiar with legacy editions of Werewolf, this is a heads up to expect some noteworthy changes in both system and setting. W5 isn’t a continuation of those earlier editions, it’s a re-imagining of Werewolf built on the core themes of the original game.)"

This is a new game inspired by the original. Therefore those are not the wendigo and they have nothing to do with them. They have vague inspired vibes since the "north wind" and hunter like keywords.
Tribes are not even related to ethnic groups.

[Technoma]

At least I know for a fact that I will skip this "5th Edition" since it isn't a part of the previous editions nor a continuation. What a shame.

[Ana Mizuki]

"(If you’re a player familiar with legacy editions of Werewolf, this is a heads up to expect some noteworthy changes in both system and setting. W5 isn’t a continuation of those earlier editions, it’s a re-imagining of Werewolf built on the core themes of the original game.)"

This is a new game inspired by the original. Therefore those are not the wendigo and they have nothing to do with them. They have vague inspired vibes since the "north wind" and hunter like keywords.
Tribes are not even related to ethnic groups.

The problem is, that it still follows in the footsteps of the cannibal spirit. With the tribes no longer being tied to cultures, it also means that now a wider group of garou from all around are taking the mantle of the hungry spirit. This is exactly the problem people are having with the W-creature being used, it is being taken from its original context. Changing the name while keeping the ties is only giving it a new surface paint, not fixing the underlying issue of using the creature.

[Helur]

The problem is, that it still follows in the footsteps of the cannibal spirit. With the tribes no longer being tied to cultures, it also means that now a wider group of garou from all around are taking the mantle of the hungry spirit. This is exactly the problem people are having with the W-creature being used, it is being taken from its original context. Changing the name while keeping the ties is only giving it a new surface paint, not fixing the underlying issue of using the creature.

I dont see why worrying for a simple "Galestalkers must partake of fresh kill daily" right now, as we say in italy , don't wrap your head too early. What's wrong in werewolves eating their prey. Wendigo are not a thing anymore not even remotely. There are literally zero native American cultural reference.
North Wind could be something from every culture. The quote is clear. W5 its not even a reboot. Is re-imagined.

If a new game from another company introduced a Galestalker werewolf tribe for a new setting, described as it is in the article, none would have even think about wendigo , cultural appropriation or whatever.

[Ana Mizuki]

I dont see why worrying for a simple "Galestalkers must partake of fresh kill daily" right now, as we say in italy , don't wrap your head too early. What's wrong in werewolves eating their prey. Wendigo are not a thing anymore not even remotely. There are literally zero native American cultural reference.
North Wind could be something from every culture. The quote is clear. W5 its not even a reboot. Is re-imagined.

If a new game from another company introduced a Galestalker werewolf tribe for a new setting, described as it is in the article, none would have even think about wendigo , cultural appropriation or whatever.

But we don't live in the world where Galestalkers are not clearly based on Younger Brother. No matter how you slice it, the ban -is- hinting of its past. Otherwise, why the heck would the North Wind ask its followers to constantly seek fresh meat? One would think it would ask them to brave the elements or never wear clothing that isolates the cold.

Instead, it is asking its followers to seek prey constantly and fresh prey at that. One of the aspects of the W-creature is its greed, it is never full and in many stories where it will eat its family members rather than eat stored food, going back to the fresh meat thing.

[Knightingale]

I dont see why worrying for a simple "Galestalkers must partake of fresh kill daily" right now, as we say in italy , don't wrap your head too early. What's wrong in werewolves eating their prey. Wendigo are not a thing anymore not even remotely. There are literally zero native American cultural reference.
North Wind could be something from every culture. The quote is clear. W5 its not even a reboot. Is re-imagined.

If a new game from another company introduced a Galestalker werewolf tribe for a new setting, described as it is in the article, none would have even think about wendigo , cultural appropriation or whatever.

But what has North Wind to do with a ban saying "The werewolf must eat a fresh kill daily."...? That part only makes sense in the context of this being a renamed version of the Wendigo from the old WtA. By invoking the "cannibalistic spirit"-idea it still clearly shows a link between the depiction of Wendigo in the old lore and this new version. And that's an issue. It's just very strange.

[MrNatas]

I dont see why worrying for a simple "Galestalkers must partake of fresh kill daily" right now, as we say in italy , don't wrap your head too early. What's wrong in werewolves eating their prey. Wendigo are not a thing anymore not even remotely. There are literally zero native American cultural reference.
North Wind could be something from every culture. The quote is clear. W5 its not even a reboot. Is re-imagined.

If a new game from another company introduced a Galestalker werewolf tribe for a new setting, described as it is in the article, none would have even think about wendigo , cultural appropriation or whatever.

So I'll answer your question with another question. Why is this a ban of the Clearly native American Coded tribe (Their glyph is a tee-pee.) Who is taking the place of Younger-Brother (regardless of rather or not the tribe is 'new' or a 're-envisioning' they are still taking it's place) are the ones that need to kill and eat something daily then say ... the Red Talons?

I don't accept the deflection that it's a reimagining as an answer in this instance. They clearly want to play upon the same imagery and ideas as the "legacy" setting but want to pretend they are not doing anything wrong by slapping a new name and calling it good. We shouldn't say that a name change is good enough when it comes to this. We shouldn't say that 'well wolves hunt so it's fine' because this is a ban from primal urges of their Patron Spirits. It's clearly invoking the imagery of a spirit of the North that must constantly eat and that is the heart of the issue.

[Mizu]

Well, at least it's clear now what to expect from W5. It says it right at the start:
(Emphasis added by me)

Good, at least they are being upfront with how they are doing a new thing now instead of pretending to be a continuation of the old games while making crazy changes like they did with V5 and Hunter.

[Lyrics Of War]

I don’t know why you lot are worried about the implications of the gale stalkers when we know functionally nothing of them beyond their ban.

Also werewolves downing prey seemed pretty damn natural to me. Maybe that’s from playing forsaken but seriously, wait and see what it is first. Unless I’m misunderstanding you lot.

Personally I like em.

[Lyrics Of War]

Good, at least they are being upfront with how they are doing a new thing now instead of pretending to be a continuation of the old games while making crazy changes like they did with V5 and Hunter.

I thought that was a good gesture, yeah.

[MrNatas]

I don’t know why you lot are worried about the implications of the gale stalkers when we know functionally nothing of them beyond their ban.

Also werewolves downing prey seemed pretty damn natural to me. Maybe that’s from playing forsaken but seriously, wait and see what it is first. Unless I’m misunderstanding you lot.

Personally I like em.

There is nothing wrong with that, in a vacuum. However, regardless of what they say we are not in a vacuum and the only tribe of werewolves that have a constant, and may I say even ravenous hungry is the tribe that has a Wind Spirit of the North. Which you might brush that off like it's nothing but, taken with the Fact that they lazily made Uktena into "Horned Serpent" creates an image of what they actually mean by "GaleStalkers" and "North Wind" and "Ban of partake of fresh kill daily." Since these bans are "based on the primal urges of their Patron Spirits" we can assume that it's only the North Wind that makes their Tribe do this. Implying that eating fresh kills a daily is part of the North Wind's Primal Nature, it has nothing to due with the Wolf nature of the Garou but this totem/Patron Spirit they follow that makes them hunt.