Ok....apparently we are going full Forsaken.

[Lyrics Of War]

I’m still not seeing the issue. Beyond all that, the northwind was a major spirit in the end times novels, and not the same as wendigo.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

I’m still not seeing the issue. Beyond all that, the northwind was a major spirit in the end times novels, and not the same as wendigo.

I think others have explained it properly. It does not exist in a vacuum. Ironically the idea that "we don't really know what it means." would make sense if it was a separate ip like Forsaken but it's not. For that matter saying north wind was a different major spirit in the end times novels is an odd statement to follow up with the first one, particularly given the argument that this is a soft reboot.

[Lyrics Of War]

I think others have explained it properly. It does not exist in a vacuum. Ironically the idea that "we don't really know what it means." would make sense if it was a separate ip like Forsaken but it's not. For that matter saying north wind was a different major spirit in the end times novels is an odd statement to follow up with the first one, particularly given the argument that this is a soft reboot.

If the logic being used to be unhappy with the changes to wendigo is that it doesn’t exist in a vacuum, then the north wind also coming from the old edition applies.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

If the logic being used to be unhappy with the changes to wendigo is that it doesn’t exist in a vacuum, then the north wind also coming from the old edition applies.

That...makes even less sense than your previous post. Reread MrNatas' post. Particularly where they point out the direction White Wolf is trying to point towards as them explaining the setting and how they looks on relation to the context necessary for it to make any sense.

And in a greater context these criticisms of Parawolf don't exist in a vacuum either. We've seen the stumbles of V5, we've seen that they have some control over what makes it into video games but we still got Rage Whiskey Flask McFiannaFace, hell. we JUST got Fianna still the name despite the changes we knew were coming, we got Hunter trying to tell the PC they are this special "real" Hunter type and all those ones in old organizations are somehow not really a Hunter but also weirdly enough some of the suggested "real" Hunter type concepts..point you right back to the types they say don't have the real Hunter edge.

I am just glad I am so many years removed from the WoD that instead of being part of an angry invested fanbase, I just go as far as looking at the material and asking a question that has been asked before about 5e, what is it even trying to be as individual games and for whom? Because the design points all over the place.

[Ana Mizuki]

If the logic being used to be unhappy with the changes to wendigo is that it doesn’t exist in a vacuum, then the north wind also coming from the old edition applies.

The issue is that using the W-creature or even using its name is EXTREMELY taboo and not okay. So they changed it to North Wind to appease the people they wronged by using the W-creature.

So the tribe having the ban that reflects the nature of the W-creature is basically wanting to be progressive, but not wanting to give up on W-creature as a totem.

[Heavy Arms]

North Wind, in the old lore, was a spirit of Wisdom that granted bonuses to Enigmas and Occult, who's ban involved decorating one's self and home with items that make noises in the wind to remind people to stop and listen to the quiet secrets all around them.

So, not seeing where you're going here Lyrics.

Forsaken handled this fine, because it made hunting and cannibalism werewolf things. All werewolves deal with them. They're tied towards being an Uratha. WtA tied this stuff to a Tribe (though some cannibal stuff got put elsewhere and isn't great either) that was strongly linked to real world people. That context persists no matter how much people want to put their head in the sand.

------------

Also, Helur for someone that's saying people shouldn't prejudge things, don't wrap your head around the great version of W5 in you're assuming too earlier either. Most of us have more than adequately demonstrated that our skepticism of Paradox's design results is justified.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Honestly I still find myself scratching my head at the idea of removing the Get as playable despite knowing it was coming. Yeah, they had a rather unpleasant side to the Tribe but that wasn't the totality of the Tribe and there were those fighting against that and attempting to rehabilitate the Tribe and it's Nordic heritage which echos RL groups trying to rehabilitate such things that were co-op by Fascists.

Given what little has been said about what the Get are supposed to be in W5, I find myself thinking 'Why make it solely the Get?'. Why not make this new evil Tribe the Garou that have become completely fed up with Humanity and the damage they're doing to the world? The kind of fanatics and Garou-supremacists that have concluded that if Earth is to have a future, it cannot be in Man's hands anymore but theirs. They want to tear down the Wyrm, the Weaver and Humanity to save the world and if the blind weaklings of the Garou Nation get their way, they'll tear them down too.

In other words, make them the dark reflection of the Garou, twisted not by an outside force but by their own rage and bitterness. And that doesn't and shouldn't have to be solely a single Tribe. Make it members of all the Tribes defecting to this new Tribe/Nation.

[Heavy Arms]

And since they'd be out to purify the world of all of these things, call them the Pure too!
/s

The Get being removed does strike me as more odd after some thinking because, again, it doesn't seem like they're really putting in the energy to fix much in the re-whatever-ing instead of slapping fresh paint on it. It doesn't feel like it was motivated by anything deep, just surface level changes to sate some PR issues.

[Asmodai]

https://www.worldofdarkness.com/news...bes-and-renown

Honestly there's very little substance here. The disclaimer at the beginning was interesting and may be the first flat out confession of Parawolf that they are doing something else.Good, more of that than claiming these are continuations is a good move and should be embraced, guess they're willing to live with the three siloses.

I'm finding it weird that they focus again on the flesh eating tribe eating flesh, even if it's not specifically long pig. Spider for Glass Walkers is... headache inducing since it pretty much ignores what the spiders are and who they belong to. Also, why Gorgon for Furies? Why one? Which one? Wouldn't the Moirai be a better choice for them since we're reimagining them? The verbs are weird and I'm not sure what their intent is.

Regrettably, it reminded me of all the times that pre-Revised typed out the term "Garou gene". (^VVVVV^)

Hah true, but there was also a pretty amazing wolf fighting stuff as well as an evil corporation creating monsters, so it's not like it was just scientific goobledeygook trying to justify the setting

[Saur Ops Specialist]

Honestly there's very little substance here. The disclaimer at the beginning was interesting and may be the first flat out confession of Parawolf that they are doing something else.Good, more of that than claiming these are continuations is a good move and should be embraced, guess they're willing to live with the three siloses.

I'm finding it weird that they focus again on the flesh eating tribe eating flesh, even if it's not specifically long pig. Spider for Glass Walkers is... headache inducing since it pretty much ignores what the spiders are and who they belong to.

Spider-spirits are not necessarily weaver-spirits. The actual animal spirit naturae are Gaian, if likely given to meticulous pattern creation. Also, they're likely related to the net spider spirits that GWs use to hack through computer systems like they weren't there.

Also, why Gorgon for Furies? Why one? Which one? Wouldn't the Moirai be a better choice for them since we're reimagining them? The verbs are weird and I'm not sure what their intent is.

One wonders if they're going to keep the same term for Wyld-possessed beings.

Hah true, but there was also a pretty amazing wolf fighting stuff as well as an evil corporation creating monsters, so it's not like it was just scientific goobledeygook trying to justify the setting

And also Godzilla references. Can't forget the Godzilla references!

[Asmodai]

Spider-spirits are not necessarily weaver-spirits. The actual animal spirit naturae are Gaian, if likely given to meticulous pattern creation. Also, they're likely related to the net spider spirits that GWs use to hack through computer systems like they weren't there.

Right, sure... and then we walk into the Ananasi teritory and cause all kinds of weirdness, and let's not even get into the whole Ananasi Vs. Anansi

And also Godzilla references. Can't forget the Godzilla references!

I knew you'd mention them, so why do it twice?

[AnubisXy]

The goal of the Galestalkers bane is to ensure that they're rural, rugged, survivalists (it's hard to hunt something every day in the city). And there's a big difference between hunting, killing and eating animals and hunting, killing and eating people. I don't really see it as a problem. I also suspect that the North Wind spirit will be more in line with the North Wind from the North Wind and the Sun fable - blusterous, harsh and demanding, rather than the one we saw in earlier editions.

[Heavy Arms]

Technically the preview just says they have to partake in a fresh kill each day. No current wording prevents them from being rich assholes that send others out to kill something for them.

The connection to cannibalism is rather simple: many predators, including humans, rarely catch a fresh kill everyday. A "rugged survivalist" might make a kill a week and have plenty to feed themselves and family (depending on the size of the prey). Imagine you and a group of friends are forced to walk from one place to another, and it's going to take you three days to get there. What happens if one of your friends is a Galestalker, and nobody found any fresh prey to hunt and kill that day? They have to try to eat one of you (or suffer whatever the consequences are for breaking this ban, since we don't know what that is yet). It's not forced cannibalism because there just wasn't enough food. It's North Wind's demands you eat from a fresh kill.

[werewolf43]

Well they sincerly admitted that's different game. I think that originally a game was supposed to be pure continuation. However during the creation process they realized that they start to diverge from old concept. In addition probably they were informed about dissatisfied from older group of players, so they decided to call it something new. It dissapointed me a lot. Launching boardgame kickstarter in november kills me because it might be a very good game but it's not werewolf I knew anymore. I don't understand the changes in tribes, deletion of Get and Stargazers, I am afraid that renown system has been copied from WtF, which I don't like. I am disgusted how probably Onyx Path has been decived, because Chronicles of Apocalypse seems to hold onto the old Werewolf with iconic characters like Margrave and Albrecht and I can not imagine implementation of old WtA heroes to new game, thought it is possible, but not fine for me. Shame.

[Helur]

I don't see skepticsim but more like total pessimism and the will to attack the new edition because just yes. But not my business. I am totally happy about being excited for a re imagined werewolf and living it with positivity.

Honestly I'm still very happy about those GaleStalkers tribe. Your comparisons looks forced to me but I have no intention to discuss something you seems extremely sure about it in an empirical way.
I regard creativity and artistic freedom above all else, and that is why I really like what I saw yesterday.