Ok....apparently we are going full Forsaken.

[Asmodai]

Why keep Brujah or Nosferatu or Las-ombra ? That was basically Achilli answer in an older tweet. Various names are references from world cultures, but they are going to keep them anyway.

"Some words will remain, like Fianna, but others change, based on cultural consultancy research on them. (Other games have some non-English proper names, like Brujah, Gangrel, etc.). Tribe concepts change to undo dependency on real-world cultures, like we did with V5 Ravnos." Achilli

You do realise that the Fianna are the warband of Fionn MacCumhail, also known as Finn McCool ? Fian themselves were roving celtic warbands even before him, and ended up as a kind of Honor Guard of the High King. The whole reason the tribe has that name and that identity is the historical, mythological and cultural connection to those early Scottish and Irish people.

So Fianna having that name while the statement is cultural disconnecton is highly dubious.

[Helur]

You do realise that the Fianna are the warband of Fionn MacCumhail, also known as Finn McCool ? Fian themselves were roving celtic warbands even before him, and ended up as a kind of Honor Guard of the High King. The whole reason the tribe has that name and that identity is the historical, mythological and cultural connection to those early Scottish and Irish people.

So Fianna having that name while the statement is cultural disconnecton is highly dubious.

I perfectly know that, here in north Italy we study a lot celtic and gallic myths and history, and I asked him multiple times about the fianna name in w5 regarding cutting ethnic backgrounds.

Again, I'm reporting what I'm reading from him, not what I think, or what I would do.

[Ragged Robin]

The whole thing just feels lazy or cowardly, they want the wta product but don't want to do the hard work modernising it, so they're just making the tribes vague archeotypes to keep some clod writting a badly considered hit piece because they have zero faith in zoomers.

I'll probably pass unless word of mouth is amazing forsaken does what it does better and I've got a copy of w20. I'm dreading m5.

[Knightingale]

I've been thinking... If becoming a member of a Tribe occurs due to individual attributes and attitudes and is unrelated to culture and ethnicity... then how could any Tribe fall in its entirety? Wouldn't under that system every concentration of Garou become a varied assembly of most Tribes? And in places with smaller number of Garou, the assortment of what Tribes are there would be subject to constant change depending on what the new generation of Garou are like as individuals. So how could any Tribe exist as a social unit? Wouldn't this new system be more about an individual Garou's relationship with the Tribal Patron Spirit rather than a Garou's relationship with other members of his Tribe?

[Heavy Arms]

Individuals don't gain their sense of the world in a vacuum. If the local Garou have a Garou culture that predominantly aligns with a small selection of the Tribes, they're going to try to teach the next generation to have similar values and priorities, which creates a continuity that would allow certain Tribes to exist in an area more stably than not.

That's basically how Forsaken handles it: Any Uratha could end up in any Tribe, but if you're raised around werewolves you're way more likely to adopt the Tribe(s) they follow than not, and they're also likely to impact the selection of freshly changed werewolves that they find before someone else does.

[Helur]

I've been thinking... If becoming a member of a Tribe occurs due to individual attributes and attitudes and is unrelated to culture and ethnicity... then how could any Tribe fall in its entirety? Wouldn't under that system every concentration of Garou become a varied assembly of most Tribes? And in places with smaller number of Garou, the assortment of what Tribes are there would be subject to constant change depending on what the new generation of Garou are like as individuals. So how could any Tribe exist as a social unit? Wouldn't this new system be more about an individual Garou's relationship with the Tribal Patron Spirit rather than a Garou's relationship with other members of his Tribe?

I think all in a forsaken way. The patron spirits seems will influence the game a lot, and it's written how a garou often join a tribe hearing the call of the patron spirit, for various reasons, like personality, way of think, lifestyle and so on. So I suppose that a tribe is made up by garou heavily influenced by totem-ties/bounds.
But it's too early to answer questions like yours, I guess.

[Ana Mizuki]

So, yeah, Talons accept homids and Furies accept men.

I'm no game designer, but if the point is to have the tribes be open à la Forsaken, why keep the two tribes that are defined by their exclusivity?

[Helur]

https://twitter.com/jachilli/status/1578709068318838785"]So, yeah, Talons accept homids and Furies accept men.[/URL]

I'm no game designer, but if the point is to have the tribes be open à la Forsaken, why keep the two tribes that are defined by their exclusivity?

Are we sure Achilli means that ? The discussions seems to be around ethnicity

[Ana Mizuki]

Are we sure Achilli means that ? The discussions seems to be around ethnicity

I think if someone asks about two tribes defined by exclusion, what they mean should be pretty clear.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

The question was ambiguous, hence so was the answer. You really can't include the Talons and the Furies in the same question that pertains to ethnicity because the Furies had an ethnic tie, and the Talons never did. There need to be follow-up questions to get a better picture, which could have been avoided if the original question had included breed.

[tasti man LH]

Why keep Brujah or Nosferatu or Las-ombra ? That was basically Achilli answer in an older tweet. Various names are references from world cultures, but they are going to keep them anyway.

"Some words will remain, like Fianna, but others change, based on cultural consultancy research on them. (Other games have some non-English proper names, like Brujah, Gangrel, etc.). Tribe concepts change to undo dependency on real-world cultures, like we did with V5 Ravnos." Achilli

Those aren’t comparable.

Those Clans were never known for our written with being attached to the culture their names came from. Fianna we’re written with that cultural connection.

[Helur]

Those aren’t comparable.

Those Clans were never known for our written with being attached to the culture their names came from. Fianna we’re written with that cultural connection.

Those are his words , dunno what I can say since I have your same doubt and point about this specific topic.

[tasti man LH]

Those are his words , dunno what I can say since I have your same doubt and point about this specific topic.

I mean, just because it’s Word from God fun the lead dev doesn’t mean you can’t disagree with that word.

Nvm that in general the reasoning of “W5 is a reimagining not a continuation” feels less and less sorcerer the more you dig through things.

[Amethyst]

https://twitter.com/jachilli/status/1578709068318838785"]So, yeah, Talons accept homids and Furies accept men.[/URL]

I'm no game designer, but if the point is to have the tribes be open à la Forsaken, why keep the two tribes that are defined by their exclusivity?

Cause the Black Furies are defined by feminism and the Red Talons by their connection to their wolf side. Doesn’t mean men and homids can’t be members.

[Knightingale]

At least, when it comes to Breed, it seems very likely that that's dropped as a restriction for Red Talons. Breed in general won't really be a thing in W5. This is what Justin Achilli said about Breeds (in two separate tweets):

Breed is a trait from the legacy edition. W5 doesn't concern itself with the circumstances of what earlier editions defined as a Garou's Breed.

Human or wolf, player's choice. It just no longer defines certain characteristics as it did in legacy editions.