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  • I don't understand Achilli's point on equipment stuff.

    Sounds really '' If you are specialized, of course you have your equipment, that's why in H5 you need 4 fucking success on arsenal to have a damn rifle even if you are a Martial combat monster driven by pure fucking hateful vengeance that is supposed to be specializend in bringing slaughter and carnage. ''
    Last edited by Helur; 11-23-2022, 05:51 PM.


    -'' We are the unsullied.
    We are the inheritors.
    We are the Pure ''-

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    • Correct me if I'm wrong but if w5 is going to be 'street' shouldn't playing the money guy be a completly viable option, especially as urban combat is now something to skip so the muscle seems redundant.

      Just what exactly am I supposed to play?

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      • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
        Correct me if I'm wrong but if w5 is going to be 'street' shouldn't playing the money guy be a completly viable option, especially as urban combat is now something to skip so the muscle seems redundant.

        Just what exactly am I supposed to play?
        You are supposed to play a low to middle class garou who goes to work as much as they can, lives with their human family and struggles to balance that out with their werewolf nature and duty to Gaia. You seem to be focused on creating change like a human would, while guarding a caern that is more a club than a church.

        At least, that is what I'm getting from this all.


        My gallery.

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        • Why not just a pre-defined pack of equipment? Your choice of a set!

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          • Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

            You are supposed to play a low to middle class garou who goes to work as much as they can, lives with their human family and struggles to balance that out with their werewolf nature and duty to Gaia. You seem to be focused on creating change like a human would, while guarding a caern that is more a club than a church.

            At least, that is what I'm getting from this all.
            ....and yet they removed kinfolk and cultural links in tribe, which would have really helped with that.

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            • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

              ....and yet they removed kinfolk and cultural links in tribe, which would have really helped with that.
              Hmm, I believe what they're going for is that your werewolf-character is human first, Garou second in terms of culture and mentality. The ones who are really into Garou-culture are the elders and they're the losers who are responsible for Gaia being dead/dying and that's where the generational conflict between the young Garou you play and these elders comes from.

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              • Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
                Hmm, I believe what they're going for is that your werewolf-character is human first, Garou second in terms of culture and mentality. The ones who are really into Garou-culture are the elders and they're the losers who are responsible for Gaia being dead/dying and that's where the generational conflict between the young Garou you play and these elders comes from.
                There is something utterly heinous about making a game set in an active apocalypse, where nature is dying and evil is all but assured in its victory. And the PCs are weekend warriors who do what they can between work and family.

                EDIT: Also, as much as W5 borrows from Forsaken, most uratha don't stick with their human lives much. They might live -with- humanity, but from all the NPCs I've read of, most have still given up their families for the People.

                So W5 is even more depowered than Forsaken.
                Last edited by Ana Mizuki; 11-23-2022, 04:16 PM.


                My gallery.

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                • Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
                  Hmm, I believe what they're going for is that your werewolf-character is human first, Garou second in terms of culture and mentality. The ones who are really into Garou-culture are the elders and they're the losers who are responsible for Gaia being dead/dying and that's where the generational conflict between the young Garou you play and these elders comes from.
                  So what were talking about is a werewolf game where Justin doesn't really want you to play a werewolf or really engage with the formally rich setting but instead do stuff you should probably be doing irl minus the cool wolf stuff anyway.

                  Jokes on him I already volunteer at a food bank I don't need to pay him 40 quid for that lol.
                  Last edited by Ragged Robin; 11-23-2022, 04:35 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                    There is something utterly heinous about making a game set in an active apocalypse, where nature is dying and evil is all but assured in its victory. And the PCs are weekend warriors who do what they can between work and family.

                    EDIT: Also, as much as W5 borrows from Forsaken, most uratha don't stick with their human lives much. They might live -with- humanity, but from all the NPCs I've read of, most have still given up their families for the People.

                    So W5 is even more depowered than Forsaken.
                    Yeah something sickens me about how cowardly this attitude is. Reminds me of a lot of people irl, I cannot imagine how badly it would reflect on me if I had that power and knowledge at my command and I was only willing to use it to keep the local community centre open.
                    Last edited by Ragged Robin; 11-23-2022, 04:27 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                      There is something utterly heinous about making a game set in an active apocalypse, where nature is dying and evil is all but assured in its victory. And the PCs are weekend warriors who do what they can between work and family.

                      EDIT: Also, as much as W5 borrows from Forsaken, most uratha don't stick with their human lives much. They might live -with- humanity, but from all the NPCs I've read of, most have still given up their families for the People.

                      So W5 is even more depowered than Forsaken.
                      Especially if the newer generations that you're likely to be courting with this new version likely don't have those things in their real life human lives, or at least, not like people used to in the US. Families? Houses? The pittance from even overwork can't cover those like they did in the 90s. Those likely aren't going to be the same anchors in the minds of players that Justin seems to think that they will be. It feels like there's going to be a much stronger impetus in the new PCs to face the Garou Nation - such as it is - and walk backwards to the Get.

                      (Noting, once again, that they and the Fianna likely shouldn't be a thing.)

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                      • Of course, I'm speculating here but from what we know so far, what I imagine when I envision the kind of game Justin wants it's a game about activists with very human lives. Be it the environment, social justice, going against the state - your characters have an interest in dealing with those issues. And those problems have an ally in the form of the Wyrm and so there are supernatural forces attached to them that the werewolves have to deal with. But while your character is getting angry and is fuelled by their Rage to do something, they have to make sure they stay human.

                        And everything else is pushed to the side: Garou-culture. Bad. Garou-Nation. Bad. Being a warrior. Bad. Being rich. Bad. Trying to save the world. Bad. Just as important as making sure you play the game Justin envisions, it'll also put in an effort to lecture you on why you shouldn't deviate from that vision.

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                        • Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                          Especially if the newer generations that you're likely to be courting with this new version likely don't have those things in their real life human lives, or at least, not like people used to in the US. Families? Houses? The pittance from even overwork can't cover those like they did in the 90s. Those likely aren't going to be the same anchors in the minds of players that Justin seems to think that they will be. It feels like there's going to be a much stronger impetus in the new PCs to face the Garou Nation - such as it is - and walk backwards to the Get.

                          (Noting, once again, that they and the Fianna likely shouldn't be a thing.)
                          Yep, I'd say with the new generation, touchstones should not be people but communities or causes. Especially as boomers are more and more held in contempt and trust in the system is at its lowest.

                          For example, to borrow my favourite Tzimisce template, a Silver Fang might have a slum town as a touchstone and they focus on keeping that place safe from both Wyrm and police. Is it classist? Yep. But the Lord of the Area is a good concept for a high and mighty werewolf. A Black Fury might hold the LTGBAQI community as their touchstone and help in local places where they can.


                          Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
                          Be it the environment, social justice, going against the state - your characters have an interest in dealing with those issues. And those problems have an ally in the form of the Wyrm and so there are supernatural forces attached to them that the werewolves have to deal with. But while your character is getting angry and is fuelled by their Rage to do something, they have to make sure they stay human.

                          And everything else is pushed to the side: Garou-culture. Bad. Garou-Nation. Bad. Being a warrior. Bad. Being rich. Bad. Trying to save the world. Bad.
                          One might ask why this was not included in Hunter, given these are things I'd say Hunters would do the best with.

                          With the way WtA has been structured for years, I feel there needs to be some abstraction of the issues for the game to work. Garou are spirit warriors and furry blenders, their straightforwardness is both their greatest weakness and biggest strength. Yes, destroying a gym selling tainted protein powder might not remove the reason why it exists, but by destroying the spirits of taint and cleansing the area the garou are removing an infected wound that might cause sepsis if left alone.

                          Besides, even people who absolutely hate what the garou are like as werewolves (hippies is a common insult) still like that werewolves are brutal and violent. The ability to become a raging monster that kills with ease is a major draw of a werewolf.

                          But W5 is not committing to either the raging monster or the spirit warrior. It forces the PCs to be tied to humanity but still keeps the 'born a werewolf' aspect. It says that giving your connections up for the war is bad, but it makes clear the apocalypse and the Wyrm are very real. It wants you to do good, but not too much.

                          W5, to me, would have worked much better if becoming a werewolf was not inborn and the apocalypse and the Wyrm were something vague that garou told themselves. That way the Fenrir's Haglust would be clearly extreme and the PCs holding onto humanity would make sense. Do they believe what the tribes say, or do they see it as propaganda?







                          My gallery.

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                          • Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
                            Of course, I'm speculating here but from what we know so far, what I imagine when I envision the kind of game Justin wants it's a game about activists with very human lives. Be it the environment, social justice, going against the state - your characters have an interest in dealing with those issues. And those problems have an ally in the form of the Wyrm and so there are supernatural forces attached to them that the werewolves have to deal with. But while your character is getting angry and is fuelled by their Rage to do something, they have to make sure they stay human.
                            As someone who got into the protest movement and volunteering for the past few decades at least partially due to WtA the main message I'm getting from W5 is theres no point to direct action and its best to just sit in your patch and think about stuff ( and maybe ' like' stuff on socials ) but god forbid ever actually getting off your arse and doing something.

                            Which is just not WtA to me......hell, its not even WtF....

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                            • Originally posted by BadFurryFanFic View Post

                              As someone who got into the protest movement and volunteering for the past few decades at least partially due to WtA the main message I'm getting from W5 is theres no point to direct action and its best to just sit in your patch and think about stuff ( and maybe ' like' stuff on socials ) but god forbid ever actually getting off your arse and doing something.

                              Which is just not WtA to me......hell, its not even WtF....


                              Twitter-the doomscrolling.

                              From some of justins posts on irl politics and the constant flirting with nihilism w5 seems gearing up for. I'm beginning to think this edition might be a case study for the importance of game designers touching grass.
                              Last edited by Ragged Robin; 11-24-2022, 02:03 AM.

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                              • I just don't recognize how W5 might look like. It's so unbelivable how it might be far from the game I know that's just making me confused and sad. I hardly swallowed WtF and new werewolf might be too much for me.

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