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  • I suppose it isn't worth noting that in previous editions of werewolf resoarces 5 wasn't actually that impressive compared to the raw might of a garou. A ferrari and bribe money is nice but the capacity to regenerate fatal injuries in seconds is way better.
    Last edited by Ragged Robin; 11-27-2022, 05:09 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
      I suppose it isn't worth noting that in previous editions of werewolf resoarces 5 wasn't actually that impressive compared to the raw might of a garou. A ferrari and bribe money is nice but the capacity to regenerate fatal injuries in seconds is way better.
      Hang on... valuing your werewolf physiology higher than human luxury...? That sounds like something a Get would say... And in W5 that would mean you're a bad guy... although pursuing that type of human luxury also makes you a bad guy...

      So the proper stance is for your character to be a werewolf who's poor and who hates being a werewolf. Have fun playing that .

      I assume that's how the W5 corebook will deal with stuff like that.

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      • Eh. 'Once per session' is as meaningful as 'to the end of the scene', in both cases it's more of an out of game based limit. Of course WoD could probably do better at defining what the intent is behind such limits, but it's not an issue it's alone with.

        My intent with '1/session/dot' is based in the idea that one session is roughly equal to an hour long installment of a TV show. In such a show I might expect 'the rich character' to pull out an expensive but useful item a couple of times, but probably not more than a half dozen times. It's an example I'm fairly certain doesn't exist, but it's like if Batman pulled out $500 and a new gadget every week because he's loaded. You might not agree with my intent, but it's something I can clearly explain. I have no issue with limiting abilities by purely real-world measures if I can understand why the designer is doing it.

        It's something that's been glossed over a lot to focus on the 1/session deal. Resources by Justin's rules essentially gives you a tool once per session, with more investment meaning a bigger tool. But why can't I split the dice? Why can't my Glass Walker have a 2-dice boost from her self-built laptop and another 2-dice boost from her tailored suit? I'd have no issue with every Background being reduced to granting extra dice per session or being leveraged as narrative weight, but the specific way Justin's Resources works is weird and there doesn't seem to be a justification beyond '1/session so it doesn't dominate' (which wouldn't be an issue if PCs could potentially run in influential circles and call in big favours).

        Justin is also just being weird in how prescriptive he's being. He wants to make it clear that certain things are Bad and that you Shouldn't Play Them, but he's only banning some of them. He could just as easily make Resources 5 solidly middle class, but instead he wants you to know that if you have it you're Playing It Wrong.


        Blue is sarcasm.

        If I suggestion I make contradicts in-setting metaphysics please ignore me, I probably brought in scientific ideas.

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        • Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
          Justin Achilli announced on Twitter that he thinks player-characters with 4 or 5 dots in the Ressources Background are a problem and the system needs to help STs "rein them in". And his solution is that starting with W5 (and he thinks that is how Ressources should work in general now) the Ressources Background gives you extra dice for a roll... once per session.
          Wow...all I am going to say is that I hope he doesn't see M20 The Rich Bastard's Guide to Magic, he might get a stroke.

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          • Originally posted by Technoma View Post
            Wow...all I am going to say is that I hope he doesn't see M20 The Rich Bastard's Guide to Magic, he might get a stroke.
            Which obviously raises the issue of how exactly he's going to try and stop a mage being loaded in m5.

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            • I don't understand what this guy's deal is with wanting player characters to be perpetually broke losers, It doesn't make sense in werewolf and it sure as hell doesn't make sense in vampire.

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              • Originally posted by Newb95 View Post
                I don't understand what this guy's deal is with wanting player characters to be perpetually broke losers, It doesn't make sense in werewolf and it sure as hell doesn't make sense in vampire.
                In another thread, there was a twitter quote that boiled down to this about V5; "The PCs are most likely going to be Anarchs and the most important thing in their minds is where to get their next meal."

                Aka, it is much more of a 'personal and 'street'' story if the PCs are constantly starving and always on the bottom rung of society. Hence so much of gutting of W5 and inserting things from Forsaken wholesale, the purpose is to limit your abilities so you can't help but play the street level game.




                My gallery.

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                • Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                  In another thread, there was a twitter quote that boiled down to this about V5; "The PCs are most likely going to be Anarchs and the most important thing in their minds is where to get their next meal."

                  Aka, it is much more of a 'personal and 'street'' story if the PCs are constantly starving and always on the bottom rung of society. Hence so much of gutting of W5 and inserting things from Forsaken wholesale, the purpose is to limit your abilities so you can't help but play the street level game.


                  That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, personal horror is definitely more than being broke, this fetish for "street level" (which is nothing new really since most vampire and werewolves games were always street level) is utterly incomprehensible, hell, in forsaken you can make a millionaire character straight out of character creation and it would be perfectly within the established lore.

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                  • Originally posted by Newb95 View Post


                    That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, personal horror is definitely more than being broke, this fetish for "street level" (which is nothing new really since most vampire and werewolves games were always street level) is utterly incomprehensible, hell, in forsaken you can make a millionaire character straight out of character creation and it would be perfectly within the established lore.
                    Yep, it also makes little sense given the ties between organized crime and supernaturals. Unless the PCs have to be law-abiding citizens and any organized crime is Wyrmy now. Money is not exactly a rare thing when it comes to shadier parts of the world.

                    The fact that so much is taken from Forsaken seemingly to limit the PCs to one spot of land and still things are limited further, gives a sense that W5 is really going to be best at one shots.

                    And the ultimate irony of it all is, that there is now even more reason to climb high and DO something, since the Apocalypse is underway.


                    My gallery.

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                    • Originally posted by Newb95 View Post


                      That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, personal horror is definitely more than being broke, this fetish for "street level" (which is nothing new really since most vampire and werewolves games were always street level) is utterly incomprehensible, hell, in forsaken you can make a millionaire character straight out of character creation and it would be perfectly within the established lore.
                      Plus money is as street as it gets, look at something like the wire or sopranos and you'll see the dirty messy aspects of urban life tend to quite focussed on money. I've got a budgeting meeting this afternoon to deal with a surplus for community support (I know).

                      Between this and the ethnic/institution free street,Anyone else get the impression the authors have no idea what street life is actually like? It's not just a bunch of poor people worrying about the community centre.
                      Last edited by Ragged Robin; 11-28-2022, 08:34 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                        Plus money is as street as it gets, look at something like the wire or sopranos and you'll see the dirty messy aspects of urban life tend to quite focussed on money. I've got a budgeting meeting this afternoon to deal with a surplus (I know).

                        Between this and the ethnic/institution free street,Anyone else get the impression the authors have no idea what street life is actually like? It's not just a bunch of poor people worrying about the community centre.
                        Well, for as long as I can remember, WoD has had a bit of an issue equating lower supernatural status with extremely low human social status. I.e. Ronin are often entirely homeless and at the mercy of the elements, even though nothing in their creation rules says they cannot own things and just not interact with the Nation. Bone Gnawers are assumed to be completely without money or any sort of human status, with creation rules discouraging resources for them. And since the way most people in the US see poverty is in urban centres, street is often used as a byword to describe it.

                        And I feel JA is following this same mentality, where low status among supernaturals equals low status among humanity. Therefore, in any game set in a city, your PCs of low status have to be living on the street and struggling for cash.


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                        • I feel like some people never let up on that whole "rollplayer vs roleplayer" thing...

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                          • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                            Plus money is as street as it gets, look at something like the wire or sopranos and you'll see the dirty messy aspects of urban life tend to quite focussed on money. I've got a budgeting meeting this afternoon to deal with a surplus for community support (I know).

                            Between this and the ethnic/institution free street,Anyone else get the impression the authors have no idea what street life is actually like? It's not just a bunch of poor people worrying about the community centre.

                            Yeah, V5 seemed like it was written by a preppy college kid that asked his pot dealer about street life, it is so absurd and devoid of realism even for WoD, especially considering the established lore which, to be fair, kinda make sense since the imperative for new editions seem to shit on everything that came before, hell, how the fuck are the glasswalkers supposed to do their stuff without owning companies and having a substantial budget?

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                            • Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post
                              And I feel JA is following this same mentality, where low status among supernaturals equals low status among humanity. Therefore, in any game set in a city, your PCs of low status have to be living on the street and struggling for cash.
                              I think there's also an influence of punk style (not necessarily substance) at play here. While far more prominent in H5 (so far), punk subculture has always struggled with the idea that getting too successful somehow tainted a band. Becoming "sellouts" was the bane of punk and other counterculture music genres. The only way to stay on the correct side of things is to eschew material wealth and status lest they corrupt your creative output.

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                              • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                                I think there's also an influence of punk style (not necessarily substance) at play here. While far more prominent in H5 (so far), punk subculture has always struggled with the idea that getting too successful somehow tainted a band. Becoming "sellouts" was the bane of punk and other counterculture music genres. The only way to stay on the correct side of things is to eschew material wealth and status lest they corrupt your creative output.
                                Thank you for reminding me. Yeah, that might be the core reason. The hipster paradox, you want to support a band, but you want them to stay underground enough not to 'sell out.'

                                The 'preppy college kid's view of street' is what makes it ring so hollow, because so much of punk rose from people who were already IN that state before they started writing music. They did not choose to live like that.

                                Trying to willingly live in poverty and ascetism because it makes you more 'deep' and 'real' has always felt extremely selfish to me. Because you are making the desperation of others into a lifestyle and proof of autheticity.


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