W5 QA

[Asmodai]

Which is surprising considering its selling "Catholic space nazis vs football Hooligans and the bad guys from doom. to 12 year olds" as my gf says.

I think I really like your girlfriend, she makes very succint summaries. But yeah, GW is a great example of how to grow a brand into multimedia and how to make a ton of dough of everything but the core business. Their strict policy towards making sure their computer games look and feel right even if the gameplay is simple was a very good choice.

[Ragged Robin]

I think I really like your girlfriend, she makes very succint summaries. But yeah, GW is a great example of how to grow a brand into multimedia and how to make a ton of dough of everything but the core business. Their strict policy towards making sure their computer games look and feel right even if the gameplay is simple was a very good choice.

She's crushingly blunt and hot blooded. She's banned from most rpg forums for her 'concise' articulation. Some of the stuff she's said can crack stone.

Gw's big advantage according to her is faith in their own setting. Its has a very distinct flavour and leans into it unlike 5th which ultimately shies away from what it was.

"If they were in charge of 40k, they get rid of orks, tech priests, dark elves and the space dwarves because they hate fun."

She is however very kind to children and animals and is one of the few people who look good with the side buzz cut.

Edit-oh and her game bants are amazing one time she said while playing and order of hermes said " why yes child I am with dimberlydoo.....now get in the van."

[adambeyoncelowe]

Looking at my girlfriends 40k books they tend more towards a (really cool sounding) slogan/catchphrase than a verb and in turn cover incredably complex deep settings.

Setting-"In the grim darkness of the far future their is only war"

Space marines-"and they shall know no fear."

Chaos-"let the galaxy burn"

The books then uses this as an entry point to a far more elaborate specific setting. I'm looking at the introduction pages and it drips atmosphere and depth. This is a game with far broader success than wod and it seems to trust the 30 year old setting unique flavour in a way wod doesn't. Which is surprising considering its selling "Catholic space nazis vs football Hooligans and the bad guys from doom. to 12 year olds" as my gf says.

Okay, that made me laugh hard!

[Ana Mizuki]

40k also has a great example of how tribes can be boiled down to simple concepts, and then expanded with depth.

Space Marine chapters have simple premises, such as the Mongol Bike Clan, the Angry Red Rage Monsters, Wolf Wolf Wolf, Vampire Marines,etc. But then you read their history and it is expanded a lot.

Verbs don't do that, there is a reason we have 'concept' on the character sheet and not a verb. Verbs only work if there are multiple of them and if they have further context. For example, in many roleplays online, you give 9 personality traits about your character, 3 positive, 3 neutral and 3 negative.

Having a list of verbs without tying them to something more concrete does not work as well as a broad concept would. Red Talons Ward and Ruin, but what do they ward and what do they ruin? Silver Fangs inspire, but how? Meanwhile, concepts like "Wolf-focused tribe that sees humanity as a waste" and "Old world nobles past their prime" give you instantly an idea how.

[Ragged Robin]

Having a list of verbs without tying them to something more concrete does not work as well as a broad concept would. Red Talons Ward and Ruin, but what do they ward and what do they ruin?

It gets worse with ambiguities of English. Assuming you know nothing of Red talons when we say ruin do you mean they ruin everything? or they inflict ruin? Are they in ruin or the remains or greater days? How does this distinguish between the other tribes who could also be said to have all that going on wereas like you say something like "the Wolf tribe undiluted by concepts of humanity or civilisation." Immediately distinguishes from say "the reconciler tribe who seek harmony and peace" and draws you in.

To go back to 40k the space elves introduction is something like "the shadow of a once mighty empire brought low by hubris and depravity now raging against the dying light." (Thankyou to my girl again) How do you translate into 3 verbs- hubris, dying, fallen?

[Ana Mizuki]

To go back to 40k the space elves introduction is something like "the shadow of a once mighty empire brought low by hubris and depravity now raging against the dying light." (Thankyou to my girl again) How do you translate into 3 verbs- hubris, dying, fallen?

Well, the way things are going;

Depraved,Whips,Pirates.

Because everyone has get a chance to be part of the group, so can't be TOO exclusive XD

[Heavy Arms]

This is part of why I got so annoyed at the "all verbs all the time" approach.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the Cypher system in Numenera, it shows how to make these sorts of thing work. "My character is an [adjective] [noun] that [verb]s," where each of those parts of speech is actually meaningful to the game is actually a very communicative setup. This is especially true if, as Justin has said, one set of verbs is supposed to communicate what you do, and they other how you do it. That's not really how language works. If you want a "what" and a "how" the how should be a modifier like an adverb. If you want to describe the differences between how two Silver Fangs lead, you don't add more verbs. "My Silver Fang Ragabash leads flamboyantly," vs. "My Silver Fang Phildox leads dispassionately" is how you start getting from those sorts of short punchy lists into inspiring player concepts. Words that naturally latch together start forming ideas in readers' minds.

[Knightingale]

To inform people on what has been going on since the forum went down to get an upgrade...

• Justin Achilli announced that W5 would be his last project with WOD5E.
• There will be a blog-post on the official WOD-site in the near-future talking about the new mechanics in W5 (since those were finalized/developed in Nov/Dec 2022 (with playtesting happening at the same time)).
• There will be a H5-supplement with "four stories". Maybe one of them will involve werewolves or maybe not. That supplement is just about providing ideas for mini-campagins or something like that.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

Also, all the games are locked into a very narrow definition of street-level personal horror and nothing else, because apparently anything above that would make it impossible to tell stories of personal import. Which I find to be exceedingly odd, as not even Shadowrun and Cyberpunk go that hard on the "you must play only street level!" ideology, and most war stories tend to mix personal and higher level stakes freely. And, well, W:tA had always been a story about a war up until now...

[Shakanaka]

W5 is still going to be released with Justin gone? What are the chances they just rewrite all the stuff in it?

[Saur Ops Specialist]

W5 is still going to be released with Justin gone? What are the chances they just rewrite all the stuff in it?

Likely zero squared. It was produced with all speed because they knew he was leaving.

[Ana Mizuki]

There was also something about Justin saying that young garou think most of the Litany is dumb.

The tenets used? Submission to those of higher station and leader may not be challenged during wartime.

[Heavy Arms]

If I was trying to highlight why a lot of young Garou don't like the Litany - even before W5 - those are pretty strong go to ones to pick. The games have frequently noted how much the leadership of the Garou Nation uses those to get their way and dismiss the younger members that haven't "earned" a say yet.

Of course, there's plenty of the Litany that would be very appealing to young Garou, and people that want a different game than what we're being told W5 is going to be, but Justin's posts and talks about all this haven't really engaged with any of the nuance in the legacy material.

[Knightingale]

But I'm also not sure why exactly complaining about the Litany would even matter in W5. The Garou-Nation is gone... so who cares? It would be more interesting if the young Garou were in the process of creating their own Litany or something along those lines. Whining about a Garou-society that is already in shambles anyway won't lead to anything, I'd imagine.

[Heavy Arms]

There's a whole lot "wait and see" I guess, because without knowing exactly how much the new game is a full reboot vs. using the metaplot to redo the game in a sweeping fashion that it feels like a reboot isn't really well communicated.

While I don't have my hopes up here, how much things make sense is really going to depend on how much the "legacy" setting was true in the past; even in a retconned form.

A big problem is that we're kinda stuck because it seems like there's a bunch of things that make sense or don't depending on that distinction. There's also a "when did things change" aspect. If the default is that most W5 PCs were cubs when everything changed, and thus were brought up within the Garou Nation with the Litany before that all fell to shit, then it makes sense that those are things they're trying to come to grips with now. If the default PCs were born/introduced to werewolf society significantly after all that so they never had any connection to it, it makes less sense for them to care.