The Followers of Set as an enemy faction in Werewolf

[Asmodai]

This is a topic very near and dear to my heart, and one ai indulge in quite a bit. It was really interesting to see what others think about it.

For me the Followers of Set are brilliant antagonists for Fera and especially the Silent Striders. I like their core concept and have long since built them into an even more insidious cult in the CoC vein which is ruled by the vampires. While they coopt other faiths to get followers and pawns they are a fundamentally egyptian mythology based (with an addition of some Howardian crazyness because it suits the genre).

Sutekh/Set himself is an interesting quandry, one in which that I simply embraced the fact that we are not playing Vampire. Set and the whole Cain thing is a huge distraction, thusly I decided to make him an incarnated spirit that uses blood to keep himself tethered to the real world - a proper blood god. And that's why he organised all of his followers into a church - better to gather essence and belief of mortals to become an even more powerful God.

I've used the bane mummies once or twice as core antagonists of the plot - one was even the beloved of a Bubasti pc who was hoping he could redeem her and covered her up from the rest of the group until she decided to drown the nile delta and decided to stop he permanently. However, it never occured to me that they might be natural allies/competition of the Setites. I'd still prefer them as mainly independant actors, but I'm totally gonna be combining the two more for my upcoming northafrican Ahadi arc.

I'd love to hear more about the concepts you have for the seven.

Apophis is also interesting. I see Set as someone whose deeds and actions were seen by the Wyrm's avatars as the perfect messiah to bring the world fully into the maw of the Wyrm. And to that end they gifted him Apophis the Devourer, a Titanic spirit serpent that he was supposed to feed and nurture until it grew large enough to devour Gaia herself. Set however did not like that, he preferred to rule a world he corrupted to his liking. He can still command Apophis and use its aspects but he is not devouring the world anytime soon. This is seen as an affront to a number if wyrmish cults for he is denying them their glorious devourer. That's why some of them fight the Followers and seek to free Apophis. Others worship it and offer sacrifices to the great serpent hoping it can free itself from the chains of Sutekh.

Setite sorcery is cool and truly intriguing building up their prowess and allowing them for a broader base and covering for more CoC style summoning and Sorcery. I see the Followers as making their own kind of fomori - usually marked by signs of the snake,and they go from subtle charmers to monstrous scaly hairless giants. I had a necromancer among them once using ghosts to find out secrets and fuel the rites and ancient masters. I had a rough idea that the belly of Apophis might be connecting straight to Oblivion and as such might be a way for the Setites to gleam the secrets of the spectres and uncover ways to channel even that. Never built it up however.

Ushabti and constucts are cool, but I prefer to use them sparingly.

[Black Fox]

This is a topic very near and dear to my heart, and one ai indulge in quite a bit. It was really interesting to see what others think about it.

It's always great to hear your take on things. And I agree that as great as the Setites are for Vampire, that they've been neglected as foes for the other splats after a very big build up. It's somewhat disappointing to me that even in Vampire they've pretty much been supplanted by the Baali in their intended role.

Sutekh/Set himself is an interesting quandry, one in which that I simply embraced the fact that we are not playing Vampire. Set and the whole Cain thing is a huge distraction, thusly I decided to make him an incarnated spirit that uses blood to keep himself tethered to the real world - a proper blood god. And that's why he organised all of his followers into a church - better to gather essence and belief of mortals to become an even more powerful God.

That's a very interesting idea. The other blocs might still see "Set" as their leader, but interpret him as something ELSE than an antedeluvian vampire. It totally fits in the way Setites try to obscure and confuse the origins of Set, and that this has come back to bite them in the ass is a great idea. Having some fomori or sorcerer argue with a vampire about the nature of Set, using all the bullshit the Setites introduced around him is sweet. What are they going to do, turn around and say "Actually what you said is just lies we came up with in order to manipulate you"?

I'd love to hear more about the concepts you have for the seven.

The sourcebooks only described Amam the Devourer, leaving the other six to us. That is empowering, but also frustrating since it pushes so much on the ST when they already have so much to do. So no matter what people's ideas are, I think it helps STs to simply see what others might do. They can embrace, discard, or change whatever suits them. My own ideas are still very skeletal, but I learned from threads like this that feedback helps me develop a lot of ideas.

Setite sorcery is cool and truly intriguing building up their prowess and allowing them for a broader base and covering for more CoC style summoning and Sorcery. I see the Followers as making their own kind of fomori - usually marked by signs of the snake,and they go from subtle charmers to monstrous scaly hairless giants. I had a necromancer among them once using ghosts to find out secrets and fuel the rites and ancient masters. I had a rough idea that the belly of Apophis might be connecting straight to Oblivion and as such might be a way for the Setites to gleam the secrets of the spectres and uncover ways to channel even that. Never built it up however.

The Call of Cthulhu RPG heavily influences my ideas and depiction of Wyrm cults. And since CoC has its own "Set" (Yig) and embraces Howard's Mythos creations, it certainly provides a lot of ideas and flavor if an ST wants to use them (which I do!). I use a lot of Howard's Serpent Men for my depiction of the Vhujunka, but Thoth Amon and such in Conan are definitely used for the Setites.

[Shadeprowler]

The sourcebooks only described Amam the Devourer, leaving the other six to us.

Actually in Mummy: The Resurrection Rulebook, p. 201-202 there is a nice description of them:

Amam, the Devourer
In life, Amam was evidently a pirest of Set, a corrupt being who lived on the fat of the fellahin and amassed vast wealth an power through graft and blackmail. Such was his reputation that, upon death, he was selected to be one of the Apepnu
Now Amam serves the Great Serpent as a scout, "repo man" and assassin. His unique physiognomy ensures that little remains of his victims. He has remarkably acute senses of smell and hearing (Preception 4, Alertness 5), but he is rather stupid and absent-minded (Intelligence 1). Typically Amam's sharper servitros guide this Bane Mummy gently in the direction of his mission
Powers: Amam's body is that of a powerful, muscular man. His jawbone and teeth are malformed and massive, however. In addition to its abnormal size, Amam's jaw-bone also detaches and extends like that of a snake, allowing Amam to swallow objects up to his size. (It taks about an hour for him to digest something so large.)
In combat, Amam may attack with his bit [difficulity 5; (Strength +3) lethal damage] To swallow an opponent, Amam must first grapple him untill he is immobilized, then bite him every turn.

Hau-hra of the Backward Face
A scribe in the Pharaoh's court, Hau-hra steeped himself overmuch in forbidden knowledge, then joined the cultists of Set in their freakish rites. Hau-hra used his position in the court to subvert the priesthoods of Ra and Osiris and elevate the cause of Set at every turn. Upon death, Hau-hra was raised into the ranks of the Chilren of Apophis. Of all the Bane mummies Hau-hra was the most loyal to great Set, and recent schism between the Followers and the Bane mummies has left Hau-hra uncertain of his direction. Hau-hra relieves stress by kidnapping women and children, then using his unusually flexible form to violate them in creative ways.
Powers: Hau-hra's face is indeed on the back of his head, but his elbows and knees are double-jointed, allowing him 180 degrees of motion so that may move forward or backward with equal facility. This flexibility provides Hau-hra with Dexterity 5 and Dodge 6. Additionally, Hau-hra is still an educated, droll creature with a dry - albeit twisted - sense of humor (Intelligence 5). He is more in touch with modern times than any of his fellows, save perhaps Tutu.

Hemhemti, the Roarer
In life Hemhemti was the grossest and wealthiest member of the merchant caste - those who made their living trading grain, copper and slaves with distant regions such as Babylon and Crate. Hemhemti's reputation as a prize evulator of human trading stock was matched only his reputation for gastronomical excess of all sort. Rumors of the age painted Hemhemti as sufficiently blasphemous to order his servants to filch, cook and serve sacred crocodiles of Sobek and holy cats of Bast, as well as indulging in lesser (but still obnoxious) vice of eating his own slaves. To add to his insavory reputation, Hemhemti suffered from such severe stomach "problems" that he continually and uncontrollably befouled the surrounding air with the vaporous effluvia of his stomach and intensines.
Such a blesphamer was hardly to be overlooked, and Hemhemti was resurrected in to the service of Apophis. Now Hemhemti serves the Children of Apophis as a strategist and plotter. Although not overly familiar wiht the New Economy, he is wise enough in the ways of trade to keep founds rolling in bot for himself and thw Apepnu as awhole. He is fond of Amam the Devourer. The two Bane mummies often engage in cannibilistic eating contests, each seeking to stuff as many human sweetmeats as possible into his gullet in the shortest amount of time.
Powers: Hemhemti's bloated body retains and distills the gases of his decomposition, which roil and hiss continually in his internal cavities. When facing an enemy, he may vomit forth a could of pestilent gas from his rotting innards. (When so doing, Hemhemti emmits a deafening, flatulent belch, from which his sobriquet drives.) Victims sprayed this vile gas must make a Stamina roll (difficulity 6) or ne nauseated for [10- Stamina] turns. While he is nauseated, the victim suffers a two-die penality to all dice pools

Kharebutu, the Fourfold Fiend
In life, Kharebutu traveled in the same criminal circles that Tutu frequented. Although he was an accomplished bravo, thief and murderer, Kharebutu's reputation paled next to of the mighty Tutu, Prince of Tomb Robbers. Their obsessive rivalry in life spilled over into their service to Apophis. As such, when Tutu began ti be known by the sobriquet of "Doubly Evil One", Kharebutu insisted that all refer to him therafter as "The Fourfold Fiend".
Although none of his mystical traits have anything to do with the number four, Kharebutu has, over the centuries, become obsessed with his self-proclaimed sobriquet. This fascination with the number four carries over his plots and lifestyle. For example, Kharebutu might dispatch a foe with four eviscerating blows (refusing to continue fighting a foe who survives the foruth stroke), he might have four reapers as retrainers at all times, or he might try to seperate foes in to groups of four before dispatching them. In such a way, Kharebutu reasons, does he demonstrate his superiority over weak, twofold Tutu.
Powers: Kharebutu's powers differ little from those of the other Bane mummies. However, Kharebutu, ever obsessed with the number four, has developed a grisly necromantic ritual whereby he may graft the arms of decomposing corpses to his own torso, then animate the arms as though they were his own. Therefore, as lons as the arms reamin attache, Kharebutu effectively has four arms. These extra arms gives him four additional dice for dice pools, to be used only when taking multiple actions involving the use of his arms.

Qetu, the Evil Doer
In life, Qetu is rumored to have been the vilest of strumpets, a dancer-cum-whore who darkened the Pharaoh's court with her presence and brought about the ruin of many good officials. Her manipulative wiles attracted the attention of the priests of Set, who made her what she is. Now Qetu acts as agent provocateur for the servants of Apophis, and she has been responsible for the damnation of several mimmies over the millenia. Qetu has taken the rise of Amenti as an exciting challenge of her abilities to seduce and corrupt. Qetu sometimes tries to retain a veneer of sophistication, but she invariably adopts the filthiest language and crudest aphorism of whatever culture she finds herself in.
Powers: Unlike most Bane mummies, Qetu is outwordly beautiful (Manipulation 3, Appearence 5). However this beauty is but a ruse. Qetu actually wears the necromantically animated skin of a beautiful young woman over her true form - which is that of a decaying, corpslike hag. When one sees through her trickery, Qetu whips off the skin-disguise, using it like a matador's cape to distract and ensanre foes (On a successful Dexterity roll against an opponent, her foe suffers +2 difficulity to all physical actions that turn). Despite her secrepit budy, Qetu still retains a dancer's grace (Dexterity 5. Athletics 5, Dodge 5).

Saatet-ta, Darkener of the Earth
No records exist of Saatet-ta's life prior to her transformation, and little distinguishes her among the other Bane mummies even now. While Saatet-ta is a mighty being, tobe sure, she is the weakest of the seven Bane mummies, and she os often treated as the runt of Apophis' litter. This intolerable state quickly drove her insane after her rebirth, even more so than repeated deaths and trips to hell. In pathetic attempt to overcompensate, Saatet-ta alternatively dubs herself "Darkener of the Earth", "Queen of a Thousand Ravening Locusts" and/o "Ebon Horror of Khutu" among countless other melodramatic sobriquets. She often sets loose one megalomaniacal cheme after another in vain attempts to prove her superiority over her brethern.
Saatet-ta was once a truly beautiful woman, but Set's ritual changed her for all time. She stands just over five feet tall, with a body that is a reflection of her twisted soul. Her skin is blackened and cracked like a dried lakebed, and her once magnificent hair is a sparse tangle of steely gray. She is know to use Hekau to vile her body in a glamour of her lost beauty, but regardless of her form, Saatet-ta's eyes burn with a feverish light.
Powers: Saatet-ta has the powers and Traits standard to Bane mummies, but her form, while grotesque, provides no particular additional abilites. Additionally, her Hekau paths are one level less than those of the standard Bane mummy

Tutu, the Doubly Evil One
Tutu was a daring but ruthless tomb robber who would chance any curse to raid the tombs of the Pharaohs. Upon his eventual capture and decapitiation by outraged authorities, the priest of Set gathered his corpse, crudely sewed the head back onto the body and preformed the Rite of Rebirth. Now Tutu stalks the dark as a warrior and saboteur in Apophis service.
Powers:Tutu's neck has been fitted with a golden socket, whereby it is reattached to the spine from which it was severed. Tutu's control over his khaibit is so strong that he can channel his shadow-soul into his torso, then cause his head and spinal column (with hos other soul-parts) to detach themselves from the trunk while the khaibit animates the headless corpse. Thereupon, the head-spine can slither about like a skeletal cobra, while the trunk can also take actions. Effectively, Tutu becomes two characters, each with normal health elveles. The head-spine gains an additional two dice to Dodge, but he may take no actions that reuire digital manipulation. The body suffers a one-die penality to Preception and Dexterity rolls. If etiher part of Tuti is destroyed, the Bane mummy as a whole falls apart, while the soul descends howling to Apophis.
Sicne Tutu was an accomplished thief in life, add one to the base template's Dexterity, Alertness, Dodge and Stealth, and add Sreetwise 4.


Bane Mummy base template:
Attributes: Strength 6, Dexterity 4, Stamina 6, Charisma 0, Manipulation 0, Appearence 0, Preception 4, Intelligence 4, Wits 4
Abilites: Alertness 3, Brawl 4, Dodge 4, Intimidation 7, Linguistics 3, Melee 3, Occult 5, Stealth 4, Survival 5
Powers: Two Hekau paths at 5, one at 4, an at 3 and one at 1. Additionally, Bane mimmies' warped bodies often give them unique abilities. See the individal description for specifics.
Willpower: 5-10
Corruption: 7-10

[Asmodai]

Oooh I had no idea they wrote them up in The third Mummy book! Only ever browsed through it in a store and been using my Mummy 2 for reference.

Tutu may be my favourit of the lot. He sounds like an awesome antagonist.

[Black Fox]

I didn't know they were detailed later as well. So much for Mummy 2e's statement of:

A character profile is given only for Amam the Devourer, originally presented in the first edition of Mummy. This has been done because the final details of the Bane Mummies are best left up to the Storyteller, defining in advance all seven characters would, to be honest, take all the fun of creating villains.

Of course, while fun, it does put a lot of burden on the ST. Rather than detailing all seven, I probably would have liked an approach of having three very different kinds of Bane Mummies to be inspiring examples, while leaving the rest up to me. In any case, this is great information to share. Thanks Shadeprowler, I think many will find this very useful.

The real question are the six Bane Mummies newly detailed interesting enough to me to use?

After reading, my answer is "no". I just don't find them that inspiring, and they lack certain elements I would want to present in their description. I'll try to explain why.

First, what the writer of MtR does not seem to realize is that the names of the Bane Mummies are other names/form for Apep in actual Egyptian mythology. Set purposefully gave them their names after he performed the corrupted rite of rebirth. Furthermore, the names we are given in the sourcebook are actually the name and its translation. We say “Amam the Devourer” but that is because Amam means Devourer. Hemhemti means the Roarer. Saatet-ta means Darkener of Earth. And so on. The original writer of Mummy 1e, Stephan Wieck, clearly knew this. The writer or writers of MtR clearly did not. They think these are just nonsense names. (Stephan probably obtained them from a copy of the 1901 book “Egyptian Magic” by E.A. Wallis Budge.)

Second, I like the idea that Set named Amam the Devourer because he swallows things whole. Likewise Mummy 1e told us in the only other brief description of another Bane Mummy that Hau-hra of the Backward Face is called because his head is twisted backwards. It isn't just evocative. It's meaningful. But MtR seems to imply that Hemhemti is called the Roarer because he belches loudly? Well, that is kind of meaningful, but more gross than scary. Saatet-ta is called the Darkener of the Earth for no reason at all. Kharebutu is called the Fourfold Fiend simply because he is a rival whose name is Doubly Evil, so he wants to be more than that.

Really? This is what we get? I have the feeling if the writer was given the task to describe Cenobites he'd tell us Pinhead loved playing pinball. Only Tutu the Doubly Evil One seems to make sense because he can essentially split himself in two. So even considering that MtR doesn’t understand the origin of these names, they don’t even make sense in the way the writer wants to use them.

Third, the other thing I liked about the description of Amam is that he was given a role - he was an assassin. That implied some level of specialization. This Bane Mummy would be good at this task, while another would excel at something else. That is something that inspires me as an ST. I only need to work out first what those roles might be. One might be a spy and information gatherer. Another a master of poisons and potions. Someone else could be a cult leader, or a spreader of rumors, lies, and propaganda. There is very little distinction or expertise separating these Bane Mummies except for Qetu who is given the very predictable seducing femme fatale role.

Fourth, the collective information we had about the Bane Mummies and their creation was that 1) they seemed to be created at or around the same time as Set immediately stopped using the Rite once he discovered he could not control the Bane Mummies, 2) they were all selected from the best of Set's human followers, 3) they were transformed in Alexandria in the first century BC (meaning the last few decades of the Ptolemaic Dynasty before Rome took over) and 4) they were the elite of Egyptian society - priests, warriors, and magicians were those included. To be selected was a great honor.

This does not seem to be the case of the MtR examples. We have a priest, scribe, merchant, two low class criminals and grave robbers, a whore, and a complete unknown. Only the priest and scribe could possibly fit the original description. We also don't get any idea that while these are native Egyptians, they are in a greatly Hellenized high culture. Everything seems very generic.

So for my own personal tastes, I think I'll just start over and come up with my own concepts that better fit what I was imagining. (If you think the MtR's descriptions are the bee's knees, good for you. Tastes differ.)

Does this mean I don't find anything interesting about the MtR's description? I do like the idea of a scribe learning forbidden knowledge. That's a classic concept. But if you do that, then you make him some kind of master magician of Hekau. I do like the idea of one of them wearing an animated skin of a beautiful women to wear over her actual grotesque body (although we'll need to invent a new fomori power to do that, that's OK). Tutu being able to split himself and two and the reasons why it works is also good. Those are probably the only things I'll try to keep in some capacity.

I'm compiling my various thoughts on what I think should be done with the Bane Mummies. I'll post them soon. They won't be complete characters, just ideas on the kinds of characters they could be. I hope it'll help some people.

[Bluecho]

It's not that I dislike the MtR descriptions of the Bane Mummies as antagonists. I just feel they're insufficient as THE Bane Mummies.

Bane Mummies are corrupt immortals inundated with unclean spirits, wielding the darkest magics of antiquity, that are so terrible and potent that even an Antedeluvian couldn't control them. They're a blight on the world, their very existence a transgression, and the only solace to be had is they're blessedly few in number.

The MtR versions are disappointingly mundane. Femme fatales, hungry idiots, and folks with inferiority complexes. Not bad antagonists, just not up to the task of fulfilling this role. They're too explicable. Too understandable.

For me, I'd prefer the Bane Mummies get little elucidation. It puts more work on the ST to flesh them out, yes, but it would preserve that essential mystery. Motives obscure and alien, primordial and terrible. Where if the PCs ever wind up in the same room, the simple presence of a Bane Mummy should radiate a palpable aura of dread and ill luck. Possessed of powers that violate natural laws.

When I think "Bane Mummies", I envision a shriveled cadaver bound in wrappings writ with curses. Flames and electric lights guttering and dying in their presence. Hexes radiating from them passively by proximity, much less at their touch.

The MtR characters have, like, one unique power each, and they're not too impressive. You could accomplish most of them with Fomori or some Sorcerer's ritual. A bit of gross-out body horror is all we get. Again, good for a mid-campaign villain squad. Not so much for terrors that have bedeviled the world for millennia.

[Shadeprowler]

I just don't find them that inspiring, and they lack certain elements I would want to present in their description.

It's not that I dislike the MtR descriptions of the Bane Mummies as antagonists. I just feel they're insufficient as THE Bane Mummies.

Sad but ture
They are in the MtR version is a bit... B category villains
But then again, the Amenti in MtR are not the Avanger-type heroes either
Anyhow, personally I think Imhotep from the Mummy franchise is what a Bane Mummy should be like, but that is just my two deben

[Bluecho]

You know what it is? MtR's version of the Bane Mummies seem a lot more like the named character goon squad of an ACTUAL Bane Mummy. The kind of lieutenants that are permitted to have gimmicks and personality, so the Big Bad can remain solidly in the shadows and mysterious. The PCs learn about the Bane Mummy through these guys as proxies, who give clues as to what their master wants and establish how beguiling/threatening they are.

Before the character is nearly defeated, and a voice croaks out from nowhere, saying, "you have failed me for the last time". And then they turn into a pillar of salt, or they're dragged into the shadows my dozens of mummified hands, never to be seen again. That kinda shit.

[Asmodai]

The real question are the six Bane Mummies newly detailed interesting enough to me to use?

After reading, my answer is "no". I just don't find them that inspiring, and they lack certain elements I would want to present in their description. I'll try to explain why.

<snip>

Second, I like the idea that Set named Amam the Devourer because he swallows things whole. Likewise Mummy 1e told us in the only other brief description of another Bane Mummy that Hau-hra of the Backward Face is called because his head is twisted backwards. It isn't just evocative. It's meaningful. But MtR seems to imply that Hemhemti is called the Roarer because he belches loudly? Well, that is kind of meaningful, but more gross than scary. Saatet-ta is called the Darkener of the Earth for no reason at all. Kharebutu is called the Fourfold Fiend simply because he is a rival whose name is Doubly Evil, so he wants to be more than that.

Really? This is what we get? I have the feeling if the writer was given the task to describe Cenobites he'd tell us Pinhead loved playing pinball. Only Tutu the Doubly Evil One seems to make sense because he can essentially split himself in two. So even considering that MtR doesn’t understand the origin of these names, they don’t even make sense in the way the writer wants to use them.

So for my own personal tastes, I think I'll just start over and come up with my own concepts that better fit what I was imagining. (If you think the MtR's descriptions are the bee's knees, good for you. Tastes differ.)

It's not that I dislike the MtR descriptions of the Bane Mummies as antagonists. I just feel they're insufficient as THE Bane Mummies.

Bane Mummies are corrupt immortals inundated with unclean spirits, wielding the darkest magics of antiquity, that are so terrible and potent that even an Antedeluvian couldn't control them. They're a blight on the world, their very existence a transgression, and the only solace to be had is they're blessedly few in number.

The MtR versions are disappointingly mundane. Femme fatales, hungry idiots, and folks with inferiority complexes. Not bad antagonists, just not up to the task of fulfilling this role. They're too explicable. Too understandable.

For me, I'd prefer the Bane Mummies get little elucidation. It puts more work on the ST to flesh them out, yes, but it would preserve that essential mystery. Motives obscure and alien, primordial and terrible. Where if the PCs ever wind up in the same room, the simple presence of a Bane Mummy should radiate a palpable aura of dread and ill luck. Possessed of powers that violate natural laws.

When I think "Bane Mummies", I envision a shriveled cadaver bound in wrappings writ with curses. Flames and electric lights guttering and dying in their presence. Hexes radiating from them passively by proximity, much less at their touch.

The MtR characters have, like, one unique power each, and they're not too impressive. You could accomplish most of them with Fomori or some Sorcerer's ritual. A bit of gross-out body horror is all we get. Again, good for a mid-campaign villain squad. Not so much for terrors that have bedeviled the world for millennia.

I would like to preamble the following comment with the statement that I agree with both of you that the presented mummies are amazingly pedestrian. When I was making my own the key concepts were magic, favoured by sutekh and the capacity to be an ingoing threat.

Tutu captured my imagination for being an amazing visual gimmick, and i totally see him using two bodies to great effect. His backstory as a wyrmish indiana jones makes for excellent plot introduction.

Now, while I do agree with both of your conclusions, I feel that you are starting off with the wrong question. The written up mummies all came not from the description of what the Bane Mummies are, they came from the Devourer as a baseline.

Let's look at him again - he is an unkillable idiot that eats people whole as Set's assassin. Considering what we know of the Setites, he's not all that impressive. Already here in the original source he is defined not as a cunning antagonist but as a freakish brute with a huge mouth. All of the written up Bane mummies are essentially the same - one note freaks.

The first one we were introduced to was lacklustre and this was never really questioned by the MtR writers. The big question is why there was a disconnection between the writeup of the mummies as immortal terrors and major villians and the sample is a simpleton whose claim to fame is that he can open his mouth so much as to eat people whole!

If we seek the bane mummies as immortal terrors and grand villians we can probably just go from the description and the names and ignore what the book shows us as a sample. For me, he was a crappy prototype or fluke and that's why he is written up like that, the others have to be more.

First, what the writer of MtR does not seem to realize is that the names of the Bane Mummies are other names/form for Apep in actual Egyptian mythology. Set purposefully gave them their names after he performed the corrupted rite of rebirth. Furthermore, the names we are given in the sourcebook are actually the name and its translation. We say “Amam the Devourer” but that is because Amam means Devourer. Hemhemti means the Roarer. Saatet-ta means Darkener of Earth. And so on. The original writer of Mummy 1e, Stephan Wieck, clearly knew this. The writer or writers of MtR clearly did not. They think these are just nonsense names. (Stephan probably obtained them from a copy of the 1901 book “Egyptian Magic” by E.A. Wallis Budge.)

I had no idea about this, it is an amazing detail. Where could one dig up more?

I'm compiling my various thoughts on what I think should be done with the Bane Mummies. I'll post them soon. They won't be complete characters, just ideas on the kinds of characters they could be. I hope it'll help some people.

Looking forward to it. I can offer the notes on the one I made for my game if that would be of any interest?

[Elphilm]

I had no idea about this, it is an amazing detail. Where could one dig up more?

The names of the Bane Mummies come from the list of the 42 assessors of Maat, minor Egyptian deities charged with judging the souls of the dead. The Wikipedia page is a good starting point if you are interested in learning more, and includes a translation of the full list of names.

The same list (albeit in a different translation) was also included in the back of Mummy 2nd Edition, on page 141. However, I'm not sure the authors of the 2nd Edition update realized that the Bane Mummies are derived from the list of the judges of Maat. The Bane Mummies were named by Stephan Wieck in the original Mummy supplement. The 2nd Edition revision carries over these names, but the book also includes a list where the same names are translated (and transliterated) differently, with no apparent connection made between the two. For example, Tutu the Doubly Evil also appears on the 2nd Edition list as Tututef, and has no translated title, even though his name literally means "Doubly Evil." Similarly, Hau-hra of the Backward Face reappears as Hraf-haf, He Whose Face is Behind Him.

It would be one thing if the 2nd Edition authors chose to include multiple translations and transliterations of the names of mummies to display some of the various ways in which Ancient Egyptian can be rendered in the Latin alphabet, but to my eyes the book seems to be oblivious to any connection between the two sets of names. I think it's another example of what Black Fox alluded to above when talking about the Mummy: The Resurrection writers missing the obvious about the Bane Mummy names (their titles are literally what their names mean). It often happens in the development of roleplaying games that the context intended by an original author is quickly lost when other developers revise his or her work while being unfamiliar with the original source material.

[Black Fox]

If we seek the bane mummies as immortal terrors and grand villians we can probably just go from the description and the names and ignore what the book shows us as a sample. For me, he was a crappy prototype or fluke and that's why he is written up like that, the others have to be more.

I would probably agree that Amam the Devourer is rather basic. He is a terrifying physical opponent, and that's about it. If I had to guess the inspiration for Amam, it's probably the Mummy movies of the 1940s that showcase Kharis, and not the 1932 classic with Boris Karloff as Imhotep (who despite being the villain of the movie, is much closer to the Shemsu-heru.) Kharis was the archetype of the rather mindless, but relentless killer mummy, and that is what I associate with Amam. Kharis was also barely controlled by the ancient cult of the dead princess Ananka, and that is mirrored by the way Amam is surrounded by Setite vampires who direct his rampages.

Here is something similar in the much better Hammer Films remake version of The Mummy in 1959 (which is actually based on the forties Mummy movies with Kharis, not Karloff's movie in 1932). I think this is what Stephan Wieck was going for when he created the Bane Mummy Amam.

So I've always seen it less as "Amam is the archetype of what all Bane Mummies should be", and more "If you like the Universal Mummy movies, Imhotep would be a Horus mummy and Amam is more like Kharis." It is easy to forget now, but there is actually a lot of the old Universal horror movies in very early World of Darkness.

Of course, we have a lot of other classic evil mummy movies out there for inspiration, some of which are both malevolent and smart. And we can use those to inspire us for the other bane mummies.

I had no idea about this, it is an amazing detail. Where could one dig up more?

Mummy 1e page 64 is where it says "Set named them after the traditional manifestations of Apophis, the Egyptian devil serpent."

Of course, while it is easy to say that, how does one know if that is actually true in reality as opposed to a "fact" in the fictional World of Darkness? This isn't typical knowledge - most of us are not buffs in Egyptology. Neither am I.

But it is true and is found in Budge's Egyptian Magic. It's in the public domain, and the relevant chapter (and indeed the entire book) can be found here.

But Âpep possessed many forms and therefore many names, and unless he could be invoked by these names he still had the power to do evil; the above-mentioned book 2 therefore supplies us with a list of his names, among which occur the following:--"Tutu (i.e., Doubly evil one), Hau-hra (i.e., "Backward Face), Hemhemti (i.e., Roarer), Qetu (i.e., Evil-doer), Âmam (i.e., Devourer), Saatet-ta (i.e., Darkener of earth), Iubani, Khermuti, Unti, Karauememti, Khesef-hra, Sekhem-hra, Khak-ab, Nâi, Uai, Beteshu, Kharebutu the fourfold fiend," etc. All these names represent, as may be seen from the few of which translations are given, various aspects of Âpep, the devil of thunder, lightning, cloud, rain, mist, storm, and the like, and the anxiety to personify these so that the personifications might be attacked by means of magical ceremonies and words of power seems positively childish.

I cannot say for certain that this is how Stephan Wieck discovered these names. It's just a reasonable guess.

Of course, if you want to have more Bane Mummies in your chronicle, you now have a lot more authentic names you can use.

Looking forward to it. I can offer the notes on the one I made for my game if that would be of any interest?

I would certainly love to see what others have done. My reason for starting this thread is to help others and me develop this "faction" more. While most of my posts are to help me brainstorm and share with the forum, I am definitely taking notes on what others are saying as it helps me figure out my own ideas.

[Black Fox]

It's not that I dislike the MtR descriptions of the Bane Mummies as antagonists. I just feel they're insufficient as THE Bane Mummies.

I think that is well put. You just gave a lot of great imagery that I'll try to achieve.

The MtR versions are disappointingly mundane. Femme fatales, hungry idiots, and folks with inferiority complexes. Not bad antagonists, just not up to the task of fulfilling this role. They're too explicable. Too understandable.

Mundane is definitely the right adjective. A femme fatale villain is certainly OK, but if we have only TWO female mummies why use up one of your slots with such a stereotypical and unimaginative role?

You know what it is? MtR's version of the Bane Mummies seem a lot more like the named character goon squad of an ACTUAL Bane Mummy. The kind of lieutenants that are permitted to have gimmicks and personality, so the Big Bad can remain solidly in the shadows and mysterious. The PCs learn about the Bane Mummy through these guys as proxies, who give clues as to what their master wants and establish how beguiling/threatening they are.

Before the character is nearly defeated, and a voice croaks out from nowhere, saying, "you have failed me for the last time". And then they turn into a pillar of salt, or they're dragged into the shadows my dozens of mummified hands, never to be seen again. That kinda shit.

I agree that the basic concepts would be fine as henchmen or cult members of a Bane Mummy. And the idea that the Bane Mummies do have cults built around them is something I want to develop as an element of this faction. It helps distinguish them from each other and the other blocs of the Followers of Apophis. Maybe Amam is much more closely aligned with the vampires of the Followers of Set, and routinely does tasks for them. But maybe another Bane Mummy has almost no relations with the Setites and even sees them as her pawns. And the others are inbetween somewhere. Maybe one helps Setites, but only in research matters or is the main resource for developing their Blood Magic. Another does help, but always asks a heavy price so the Setites do a lot of work for him furthering his own plans, not those of the local Setite temple.

I think the Bane Mummies have a LOT of potential.

[Black Fox]

The names of the Bane Mummies come from the list of the 42 assessors of Maat, minor Egyptian deities charged with judging the souls of the dead. The Wikipedia page is a good starting point if you are interested in learning more, and includes a translation of the full list of names.

The same list (albeit in a different translation) was also included in the back of Mummy 2nd Edition, on page 141. However, I'm not sure the authors of the 2nd Edition update realized that the Bane Mummies are derived from the list of the judges of Maat.

I didn't know this! That's very cool.

It is also ironic that the writers of Mummy 2e intended for that list of 42 names to be used for the 42 Shemsu-heru! They obviously did not know some of these were already used for the Bane Mummies! Very likely they pulled their list of 42 names from a different source than what Stephan used for the Bane Mummies, and they had no idea that they were using different transliterations of the same Egyptian names.

I think the idea that there are only 42 Shemshu-Heru is an artifact of Mummy 2e. I don't remember this in Mummy 1e, but I could be wrong. If so, they likely thought they were doing something cool by linking, even if only symbolically, the Horus mummies with the gods of Maat, but they unintendedly associated them with Apep and the Bane Mummies instead!

I wonder if all of these were associated with Apep, or only some of them? I certainly don't know enough about Egyptian mythology to distinguish anything.

[Elphilm]

I think the idea that there are only 42 Shemshu-Heru is an artifact of Mummy 2e. I don't remember this in Mummy 1e, but I could be wrong. If so, they likely thought they were doing something cool by linking, even if only symbolically, the Horus mummies with the gods of Maat, but they unintendedly associated them with Apep and the Bane Mummies instead!

I wonder if all of these were associated with Apep, or only some of them? I certainly don't know enough about Egyptian mythology to distinguish anything.

My first post got stuck in limbo because of the spam filter, and in the meantime I was curious enough to check out an online copy of Budge's Egyptian Magic. The book predates the creation of the most commonly used systems for transliterating Ancient Egyptian, so I think it's all but guaranteed that this -- rather than the list of the judges of Maat -- was Stephan Wieck's source for the names of the Bane Mummies. Budge's book is the first one Wieck calls out in the bibliography of the original Mummy supplement (page 73), which seals the deal for me.

I should also point out that while the two lists of names are overlapping, they are not identical. For example, Ammit, rendered as Amam by Budge, is not one of the assessors of Maat, but the monster that devoured the soul of the deceased who was found wanting by the judges. The assessors are, of course, associated with Maat, the personification of truth, harmony, and justice. That's worlds apart from Budge identifying several of the same deities with Apep, the literal opposite of Maat.

I'm certainly not qualified to comment on the validity of Budge's research, but ultimately I don't think the question of authenticity is very important. Wieck associated his Bane Mummies with Apep using Budge as his source, and that's what's relevant for our purposes. Like Black Fox, I don't think it ever comes up in 1st Edition Mummy that there are exactly 42 mummies aligned with Horus, so I would just de-emphasize the connection to the assessors of Maat that the 2nd Edition revision somewhat randomly tosses out there.

[Black Fox]

I'm certainly not qualified to comment on the validity of Budge's research, but ultimately I don't think the question of authenticity is very important. Wieck associated his Bane Mummies with Apep using Budge as his source, and that's what's relevant for our purposes. Like Black Fox, I don't think it ever comes up in 1st Edition Mummy that there are exactly 42 mummies aligned with Horus, so I would just de-emphasize the connection to the assessors of Maat that the 2nd Edition revision somewhat randomly tosses out there.

That sounds good to me.

In developing ideas for the Bane Mummies, there are several areas I would want to concentrate on. 1) Ideas about their mortal life, specifically their main role they played as career and as a follower of Set. 2) Their powers as mummies and fomori. 3) Their taints and other “flair” as Bane Mummies. 4) The cult that is built around them. 5) Their “specialty” that distinguishes them from other Bane Mummies. 6) Their unique background that makes them compelling as characters. Given that they are only seven, they deserve the kind of backstory, pathos, and tragedy that makes them interesting villains. They should not just be mooks, but compelling villains equal to the most cinematic examples we have. Each of the Bane Mummies should be eual of the gratest vampire NPCs in my example.

While I will brainstorm each of these in detail, as an example I well try to develop Amam the Devourer along the lines I mean. I think that will explain what I wish to do for all of the Bane Mummies.

First, we know Amam was a priest. But priest of what? I’ll make him a priest of Horus. Set putting one of his pawns as a priest of Horus is what I would expect; a perfect combination of blasphemy and high school politics douchebaggery that defines the Followers of Set. Plus given Amam’s obvious mental deficiencies it evokes Horus getting revenge for such blasphemy.

Second, if we want Amam to be the equivalent of Kharis, that means an unstoppable foe that just steamrollers his opponents, we need to boost his stats. The character sheet in both Mummy 1e and 2e is insufficient. Perfectly fine against mortals, not vampires, Garou, or other supernatural creatures. As Bluecho says, "They're a blight on the world, their very existence a transgression, and the only solace to be had is they're blessedly few in number." That's our goal. Or at least mine.

Mummy 1e allowed Attributes to be higher than 5. Mummy 2e doesn’t, but mentions it can bought above with XP. I’d definitely allow Amam to have Physical attributes above 5. Alchemy to boost above that. And Fomori power Mega attributes as well. Let’s give him eight in Strength and Stamina total. Then add Berserker to give him Rage and Armored Hide for more soak. Then combined with Mouth of the Wyrm (Maw of Apophis) we have a real terror on our hands. Someone who could slay a Sabbat archbishop, Garou hero, or an entire coven of the Serpents of the Light. Someone to give a Methusaleh of the Camarilla pause. Critias can oppose the Followers of Set, but he also knows what red lines not to cross.

Third, I want Amam to be unpredictable. Someone barely under the control of his “handlers”. He is a time bomb waiting to go off. He’s probably eaten any number of Setite vampires who “control” him. He’s the Bane Mummy at the greatest disposable of Setites, but it too dangerous to unleash. He does what they want at times, but he goes crazy on occasion and eats his own “allies”.

Fourth, the cult around him - basically Setite vampires and their ghoul or mortal servants - exist to keep him pacified and somewhat directed. Maybe he is in some deathless, dreamless sleep most of the time. They awake him when the highest leaders of the most ancient temples of Set need him to eliminate someone or retrieve an object with extreme prejudice. They do not do this lightly. Amam is too unpredictable, and it requires pacts between these Setite leaders and Apophis (which is an incarnation of the Wyrm). If they screw up handling this awoke h-bomb, they suffer a lot.

Fifth, Amam is already established as an assassin, so that is easy. He is just there as an implacable foe to overwhelm and kill whatever he is sent against. Its a matter if the cost is worth it. Sometimes get lucky. Other times not. Over a long enough time frame, the benefits slightly outweigh the cost.

Sixth, I don’t have any solid idea on providing a compelling backstory to Amam. Do we go with the Kharis background of some love interest beyond the grave? Do we make his relationship with Horus more prominent? Do we build up his hubris or corruption and downfall? Not sure at this point. But we have several ways to go. I think even a simple concept like Amam, once we consider his likely inspirations, can have some depth to make him more than just a goon.