The new patron thread.

[Nicolas Milioni]

Hi guys,i felt like talking about the changes on the patrons of the werewolf tribes. i know some liked it,others disliked. One think i wasn't really enjoyin it at first was that the tribes no longer are tied to certain parts of the world,at first i felt like it took away some of the tribe's identities but i looked on the bright side and i realized that now that everyone from anywhere can be from any tribe,not only there's less limitations on character creation but now the tribe can be defined by their patron more than anything. which brings me to the patrons

we've got newcomers! i wanted to talk about some of them, i know some of the changes will be thought as unnecessary by some,that's ok i get where this thought is coming from. i personally don't like when game when games stay the same for a long time.

Ok Let's talk about the newcomes.

Black Furies are now subjects of Gorgon,if you aren't versed on Greek Myth. Medusa was a Gorgon, some might say she was THE gorgon and given that many people will tell you Medusa was the greateast feminist to ever feminist you can see the logic here.
Our name changed friends,the Galestalkers follow the North Wind,excited to see what he's like. i suspect they might be some scary ass trackers no matter where they from
Another renamed tribe,the Ghost Council follows the Horned Serpent, they seem to be wise
Glass Walkers now follow Spider,i suspect it was a aesthetic choice their older totem wasn't exactly cool looking,badass certainly but not cool looking
Shadow Lords follow Thunder,i imagine they'll get some of the fallen Get norse Thor aesthethics

now here's the fun part,tribes are multi cultural as all fuck now. which means Gorgon isn't only greek,and Horned Serpent is not only american! which shapes those patrons might take ?

[Saur Ops Specialist]

This has been known for months. You can still find that picture in the W5 Q&A thread, which has been open for ages. Having a singular Gorgon for the BFs really makes me think of Fate GO and little else, too. Note that in 1e and 2e, they called the Gorgons collectively the Medusae (found in the 1e-era tribe book), while the Revised tribebook split them up and added two more Gorgons, as they were taken as the first pack of BFs. Not sure how that's going to shake out in W5.

Also, what Thor aesthetics for the Get? From Revised on, they were presented as sworn enemies of the Aesir, hating them with an intensity that non-Rage holders could scarcely hope to imagine. Their aesthetic for Thor is "insert left hand in chest, right in gut, hold tight and then pull". Preferably while using Might of Thor for irony's sake.

[Psicose]

Look, I took a look at these things and thought of a few questions.

1. I took a look at the five gorgons and there are more than one and from what I understand only one of them seeks equality between women and men, I think it is Helena, among the others, there is Medusa who, at least in the third edition, is lost , two others who hate men with all their strength and the last one I think I only tolerate out of a sense of responsibility. What I'm getting at with this and from what I understand I'm not the only one to suspect, is that maybe the Black Furies are even less willing to dialogue with men.

2. The Glass Walkers, with the spider totem some assume they might have fallen into the Weaver for good, I don't think that's it, but who knows.

3. As for the thunder and the Shadow Lords, I imagine they are referring to the thunder grandfather who would be the father of this tribe, and according to the tribebook of the eastern garou as well. As much as I'm trying to imagine him as a rain and thunder cloud in the shape of an old man's face, I imagine he's more like a thunderbird, a lightning version of the phoenix, judging by the tribe's totens.

[Nicolas Milioni]

This has been known for months. You can still find that picture in the W5 Q&A thread, which has been open for ages. Having a singular Gorgon for the BFs really makes me think of Fate GO and little else, too. Note that in 1e and 2e, they called the Gorgons collectively the Medusae (found in the 1e-era tribe book), while the Revised tribebook split them up and added two more Gorgons, as they were taken as the first pack of BFs. Not sure how that's going to shake out in W5.

Also, what Thor aesthetics for the Get? From Revised on, they were presented as sworn enemies of the Aesir, hating them with an intensity that non-Rage holders could scarcely hope to imagine. Their aesthetic for Thor is "insert left hand in chest, right in gut, hold tight and then pull". Preferably while using Might of Thor for irony's sake.

oh i know people already knew about the totems,i just thought i thread talking about them would be fun.
i forgot about the get being enemies of the aesir,wires must've got crossed somewhere,i should've checked the tribes wiki pages since i dont't own the tribebooks

[Nicolas Milioni]

Look, I took a look at these things and thought of a few questions.

1. I took a look at the five gorgons and there are more than one and from what I understand only one of them seeks equality between women and men, I think it is Helena, among the others, there is Medusa who, at least in the third edition, is lost , two others who hate men with all their strength and the last one I think I only tolerate out of a sense of responsibility. What I'm getting at with this and from what I understand I'm not the only one to suspect, is that maybe the Black Furies are even less willing to dialogue with men.

2. The Glass Walkers, with the spider totem some assume they might have fallen into the Weaver for good, I don't think that's it, but who knows.

3. As for the thunder and the Shadow Lords, I imagine they are referring to the thunder grandfather who would be the father of this tribe, and according to the tribebook of the eastern garou as well. As much as I'm trying to imagine him as a rain and thunder cloud in the shape of an old man's face, I imagine he's more like a thunderbird, a lightning version of the phoenix, judging by the tribe's totens.

is the weaver an entirely negative being? i thought you could fall to weaver if the weaver was entirely negative

[Psicose]

is the weaver an entirely negative being? i thought you could fall to weaver if the weaver was entirely negative

Man, it's complicated, from what I understood from the origin story what happened is that the Wyrm only went crazy because he was trapped by the Weaver who sought to control him and that's why everything turned out the way it did. I imagine it's open to interpretation, but the current state could be down to the Weaver's manipulation of the Wyrm and her need for everything to be perfect.

[Nicolas Milioni]

Man, it's complicated, from what I understood from the origin story what happened is that the Wyrm only went crazy because he was trapped by the Weaver who sought to control him and that's why everything turned out the way it did. I imagine it's open to interpretation, but the current state could be down to the Weaver's manipulation of the Wyrm and her need for everything to be perfect.

sounds really complicate indeed

[voidshaper]

Man, it's complicated, from what I understood from the origin story what happened is that the Wyrm only went crazy because he was trapped by the Weaver who sought to control him and that's why everything turned out the way it did. I imagine it's open to interpretation, but the current state could be down to the Weaver's manipulation of the Wyrm and her need for everything to be perfect.

Well, that's at least according to most Fera in W20 and before. Most prominently it's how the Ananasi see it, and they should know. No idea how W5 will handle that bit of Triat lore, or how the Glassie's switch from Cockroach to Spider will go down with Ananasa and her brood. I'm a bit afraid most non-Garou Fera will be reduced to a one-dimensional antagonist role, but on the other hand I'm really unsure how much of the 5th edition lore as a whole (regardless of splat) I'm going to use anyways.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

Tribes were multicultural in older editions so I'm not sure what I am supposed to be praising 5e about in that regards.

[Ragged Robin]

Tribes were multicultural in older editions so I'm not sure what I am supposed to be praising 5e about in that regards.

Pretty much yeah, by revised they'd made a purse out of pig skin and shown tribes to be ethnically diverse. For example fianna where celt werewolves rather than (the Americans perception of) Irish .

[Chris Wilson]

I wonder if Spider spirit refers to Queen Ananasi rather than the weaver? I realize that W5 is a sort of reimagining or even a reboot. It would be nice, considering the Glass Walker's habit of changing identity while still retaining true to their purpose as warders of men if they actually changed Totems. What did cckroach do that turn the tribe away from them? Or was it a betrayal by the Glass Walkers.

[Damian May]

Older Brothers patron has always been Horned Serpent they've just replaced the Tsalagi term with a more generic descriptor, by Revised there were many and varied River Serpents around the world that were taken to be aspects of Older Brothers Patron.

Gorgon is weird as a singular as it has always been a plural both in RL mythology and when serving as a Patron in WtA. And the switch from Pegasus to Gorgon is a hard swerve away from the growth and development the Tribe had throughout late 2nd and Revised ( ignoring the Paradox enforced attempts in 20th books to turn them back into stupid stereotypes).

I'm guessing the switch to Spider for the Walkers comes simply from spiders being cooler than cockroachs and that was probably all the reasoning that went into it.

The Fenrir are now all cray-cray NPCs so we're unlikely to get much more on them anyway beyond fanworks.

Shadow Lords patron has always been Thunder....so I don't see any change there.

The change from W****** to North Wind was necessary but their tribal ban makes little sense with the new Patron, I would have like to have seen a somewhat less generic patron but with all the First Nations culture stripped out of Older and Younger brother there wouldn't be much to hang it on anyway.

[Damian May]

Pretty much yeah, by revised they'd made a purse out of pig skin and shown tribes to be ethnically diverse. For example fianna where celt werewolves rather than (the Americans perception of) Irish .

I do wonder what the thinking was in 20th regarding some of the boneheaded decisions regarding allowing early 2nd Ed schlock to overwrite Revised and late-2nd improvements.

[Knightingale]

The switch for the Glass Walkers to the Spider Patron-Spirit was actually mentioned in the Q&A:

What was the thought process behind changing the glasswalkers patron to spider?
With the repositioning of the Triat, we wanted there to be able to be a more overt suspicion for one of the Patron Spirits to be "Weaver-aligned," the better to create low-level conflicts among individual werewolves but high-level conflicts among the society.

So the reasoning is very much to make the Glass Walker's allegiance to the Weaver more overt.

[Saur Ops Specialist]

The switch for the Glass Walkers to the Spider Patron-Spirit was actually mentioned in the Q&A:



So the reasoning is very much to make the Glass Walker's allegiance to the Weaver more overt.

This is such an "Exalted 2e change to Advaita Iraivan" decision.