Joining the Wyrm's cause effects upon a Garou

[Iguazu]

Maybe they should get Wyrm Lore, * .

[Shadeprowler]

Th
Even some Gaian spirits can enter the Dark Umbra.

Or even "live" there
The Mokolé - who are very relucant when it comes to traveling to the Dark Umbra because of the the Innocents - even have Totem of them

The Lost Ones
The cycle of life means that new species evolve into a position in nature, persist, and pass away. The Triat's work has adorned Gaia with millions of species over millions of years. But some species pass before their time. Wiped out by disasters, the Works of the Dissolver, or human evil, they persist in the Shadowlands as ghost totems. Mokolé mourn these lost species, many known only to them, and can sometimes call on their power. To do so, the ritemaster must first go into a Mnesis trance and behold the species in life, and then perform the Rite of Summoning while the image rests in her mind. Lost Ones include the dinosaurs and Great Beasts, the passenger pigeon, the dodo, the Great Auk, the elephant bird, the quagga, the snail darter, and many others. When called, they stand silently looking at the world that destroyed them. While their wisdom is great, the sadness of beholding them means that any Mokolé who botches a roll falls victim to Harano when dealing with them.
- Breed Book: Mokolé p. 64

[Black Fox]

The term "Banes" cover a lot of concepts. And individual Banes can have specific purposes and the necessary powers to accomplish them. Even if typical Banes don't travel to the Dark Umbra, it doesn't mean there aren't Banes who can and do. After all, the Tempest has all sorts of strange, dangerous, and malevolent plasmic creatures that can even enter the Shadowlands. I think the ST can figure out the nature and justification of why this Bane is there if he needs to. If Silent Striders can sometimes slip through the cracks into the Dark Umbra, that can happen to others too.

Even some Gaian spirits can enter the Dark Umbra. Owl is supposed to have been given the secret of death and has spirits like the Twice-Born in his brood. So I think that some of Owl's spirit brood have some kind of connection to the Dark Umbra even if their concern is mostly on the living Earth and their affairs in the Dark Umbra tangential.

[Arcanus]

I am slightly confused how the Bane is surviving in the Underworld....its not really a conducive habitat for Spirits.

I think the Bane can be whatever’s needed, there are Wyrm & Gaian gifts, rites and spirits that interact with the Dark Umbra, I can imagine Uktena and Falcon as well as Owl having spirit servants who either guard the paths to the Dark Umbra or visit it.

Perhaps it was originally a Gaian spirit responsible for ensuring that the natural cycle from life to death was observed then the Wyrm corrupted it.

The OPs suggested it was being aided by undead Revenants which could be spectres, so it’s corruptive powers may include corruption of the natural cycle.

The corruption system from various books might be worth looking at for the pc, you can after all start with the Wyrm taint flaw and it would be a short game if a new pc was immediately hunted and killed for having the flaw (granted that’s a concept).

[Shadeprowler]

I am slightly confused how the Bane is surviving in the Underworld....its not really a conducive habitat for Spirits.

Maybe, but like how Malfeas gladitorial pits have Specter fighters, I guess the same could be true with the Banes in the Dark Umbra
Maybe a group of Specter abducted the Bane (or if you closer to East, the Yin Aspected Yama Kings regularyl employ/abduct Banes to use them)

[voidshaper]

I am slightly confused how the Bane is surviving in the Underworld....its not really a conducive habitat for Spirits.

Not sure the Garou is long for this world anyway, they're stranded in the Underworld, full of strong dark emotions and stained with Passions relating to murder.....I give it an hour before a fuckton of spectres show up.....living things stand out like nothing else in the Land of the Dead and the Garous current resonance is going to attract very bad things.

While I agree with that assessment, I think it's more important to figure out how to get the GW on the course OP and the player want the chronicle to go from here on out. From their posts, it looks like the plan is to get the character back into a new group as a mole.

My impulse as ST would be to have the Bane deal with the Pack Totem and accumulate further debt from the character, creating quid-pro-quo situations that push the character further down the spiral- possibly literally. If the Bane is a smart one, it has figured out the reason for the character's betrayal and will take efforts in securing the turn-cloak for their side.

"I can deal with the Totem and secure your secret, but I will need your help." - ...and coax you into into a Totem pact with me.

"There is only one way out of the Underworld, but I can help you. It will be difficult, and you must do exactly as I say and not stray from the path." - ...which is straight down through the Labyrinth.

I think a nice twist for the character would be to lead them into believing they succeeded in their plan to stay a GW while the Bane effectively turns them into a BSD. After all, there's nothing stopping them from posing as GW- what better way than to employ their delusion that they are still one.

[Damian May]

I am slightly confused how the Bane is surviving in the Underworld....its not really a conducive habitat for Spirits.

Not sure the Garou is long for this world anyway, they're stranded in the Underworld, full of strong dark emotions and stained with Passions relating to murder.....I give it an hour before a fuckton of spectres show up.....living things stand out like nothing else in the Land of the Dead and the Garous current resonance is going to attract very bad things.

[Ana Mizuki]

This is an aside, but since the PC IS going this way, make them read the Book of the Wyrm 20th edition. Because Wyrm games tend to go darker than typical WoD, so it would be good for the player to know beforehand what is in store.

[Arcanus]

But we cannot assume that the pack totem will know. I can imagine lots of scenarios where the pack totem is just as ignorant as anyone else.

That is true the OP hasn’t said the pack totem was present and it being the Dark Umbra it probably wouldn’t be as it’s not a given that a totem can access that realm.

[Black Fox]

Hm, how about the pack totem? Betrayal is one thing, but if the Garou actively renounced their totem and declared for the Wyrm, this might have an impact on their renown and rank. Especially in their interactions with formerly aligned spirits.

The pack totem is not omniscient or always present either. If it is an actual eyewitness to what happened, then yes that information can get out to others, and the sept will eventually render justice. So if a corrupt Garou is tells its pack totem that it has joined the Wyrm, that a pack member before he dies somehow communicates to the pack totem what has happened even though the totem is not present, or does his betrayal in front of the totem and allows it to flee, then this can certainly happen.

But we cannot assume that the pack totem will know. I can imagine lots of scenarios where the pack totem is just as ignorant as anyone else.

In general though, I agree that traitors can uphold their status as long as they are not found out. Ana Mizuki asks the relevant questions, imo.

Agreed.

[Arcanus]

As others have said it’s very much down to his next steps and what you want campaign wise, so the Bane is powerful if it had to be bound by the Uktena (rather than just destroying it) and it’s capable of moving from the middle umbra to dark umbra.

Guessing that if the Pack were all rank 2 it’s a smaller Pack Totem a Jaggling and despite it travelling into the Dark Umbra with the pack it may not be able to escape (unless it’s a Child of Karnak or Owl), so the Bane might be able to hunt the pack totem down and kill it.

in terms of his Wyrm corruption as this is a Corruption Bane has he just pledged allegiance to save his skin or entered a pact, if it’s the latter then that’s the start of his appearing on ‘Sense Wyrm’ and the Gaian spirit grapevine plus the Bane will probably require a bigger pact to get him out of the Dark Umbra and stop the totem.

Really depends on what you want to do next, but unless he joins the BSDs his days are numbered, sooner or later someone like the Uktena or GW are going to get suspicious or he’s going to ping someone’s Wyrm radar.

[Ana Mizuki]

So it would be in his best interest to request help from the bane in stopping the pack totem from ratting him out? I’m sure it’s a big price to be paid.

Very much so.

[Alucardtes]

So it would be in his best interest to request help from the bane in stopping the pack totem from ratting him out? I’m sure it’s a big price to be paid.

[Ana Mizuki]

I guess I need to ask him if he’s truly working for the bane or if he’s trying to use it too. And yes he now needs to find his way out of the Dark Umbra.

You should also ask him if he is prepared to have the whole of the Nation declare him an enemy.

Regardless if he is using the bane or not, killing your packmates for your own ego does mean he is very much on the chopping block still. Even Shadow Lords, who do some dark things for power and Gaia, do not kill their bonded packmates for their own gain only. If they MUST take out a packmate, they will usually direct them to an unwinnable fight.

[Alucardtes]

I guess I need to ask him if he’s truly working for the bane or if he’s trying to use it too. And yes he now needs to find his way out of the Dark Umbra.