Ghost Council Tribe Preview for W5

[Knightingale]

Some thoughts:

• The main-thing I first thought reading it was wondering yet again how a Garou-Nation ever existed in the first place when these Tribes are this divisive.
• The whole "ends justify the means"-approach to secrets and taboos was pushed really hard, I felt. At some point, I started to wonder if really taboo ideas like "Maybe the Wyrm isn't as bad as Garou think...?" would come up. That's the vibe I got at least.
• The Favor is written in a style more similar to the Glass-Walker-one but with three Skills instead of two and all based on a specific situation (the Hart Warden Favor is still the best one of the three).
• Again with a heavy focus on humans with archetypes and the write-ups didn't really convey that they're Garou with Garou-specific beliefs. They felt more like humans who happen to be part of the whole Garou-thing.

[Shadeprowler]

Okay, at this point I'm 100% certain WW5 simply uses some leftover art from Vampire that didn't made it in to the books >.<
This is only my humble opinion, but this is horrible
Great Uktena weeps bitter tears
Even the OG Ahriman with Spiritus were more Garou than these guys

[Ana Mizuki]

Well first of all, once more the "Garou cannot be with humanity much" is ignored entirely. The monk here lives in a monastery and the implication is that they keep on killing their fellow monks in a never-ending cycle of penance. Interesting idea, but monasteries aren't closed off like they used to be in medieval times (barely even THEN) and deaths of fellow brothers would get the monk kicked out.

The Shepherd NEEDS better art, they are the only native character shown/outright stated to be one and THEY are the ones covered in blood. I feel the blood should have been on the monk rather than on the shepherd.

EDIT: But, to the preview's credit, this is a MUCH better group of example concepts than GWs and Hart Wardens had. These guys aren't defined by their jobs and have actual plot points to them.

[Knightingale]

Well first of all, once more the "Garou cannot be with humanity much" is ignored entirely. The monk here lives in a monastery and the implication is that they keep on killing their fellow monks in a never-ending cycle of penance. Interesting idea, but monasteries aren't closed off like they used to be in medieval times (barely even THEN) and deaths of fellow brothers would get the monk kicked out.

The Shepherd NEEDS better art, they are the only native character shown/outright stated to be one and THEY are the ones covered in blood. I feel the blood should have been on the monk rather than on the shepherd.

Both the Monk and the Shepherd feel a bit out of place or in this case "out of time". The Shepherd-bit mentions "the Shepherd watched as, bit by bit, their ancestral lands were annexed by human governments and their customs were forced into obscurity." which is... weird. How is that even possible? Garou aren't immortal. And which region with reindeer has been annexed by a "human government" in the 21st century...?

[Ana Mizuki]

Both the Monk and the Shepherd feel a bit out of place or in this case "out of time". The Shepherd-bit mentions "the Shepherd watched as, bit by bit, their ancestral lands were annexed by human governments and their customs were forced into obscurity." which is... weird. How is that even possible? Garou aren't immortal. And which region with reindeer has been annexed by a "human government" in the 21st century...?

Lapland here in North Europe. Though it isn't officially being annexed, there are a bunch of foreign and domestic companies who are pushing to build mines and such there and the Sami and their ways are treated as a curiosity. Add to this Siberian tribes and I can totally see where the Shepherd is coming from.

Plus, I live close to the capital and -I- have seen local nature being slowly but surely removed bit by bit over the years. Nevermind the tourists trap that Lapland has become.

[Fenixpp]

Geez... this tribe seems a patchwork tribe from Legacy in a very unappealing way. It looks to me a bit of Shadow Lord, Striders (they had changed the "Travel" verb for the "Seek" verb on the Hart Warden website update post, but uploaded an older page into the PDF as it seems) and Stargazers... I guess because they won't be playable at all? Who knows...

This tribe seems bland AF.

[Knightingale]

Lapland here in North Europe. Though it isn't officially being annexed, there are a bunch of foreign and domestic companies who are pushing to build mines and such there and the Sami and their ways are treated as a curiosity. Add to this Siberian tribes and I can totally see where the Shepherd is coming from.

Plus, I live close to the capital and -I- have seen local nature being slowly but surely removed bit by bit over the years. Nevermind the tourists trap that Lapland has become.

I think the framing just makes me think more of the 19th to 20th century. These days the issue is more about "There's little left and even that is now under threat.". Like the Standing Rock protests over the pipeline or as you mentioned Lapland. Indigenous minorities have already been pushed into a tiny corner (in many regards) and now even that comes under threat.

[Ana Mizuki]

I think the framing just makes me think more of the 19th to 20th century. These days the issue is more about "There's little left and even that is now under threat.". Like the Standing Rock protests over the pipeline or as you mentioned Lapland. Indigenous minorities have already been pushed into a tiny corner (in many regards) and now even that comes under threat.

I mean the Monk DEF. sounds better in a medieval campaign.

But I'd say the Shepherd as a concept is valid, as this is an issue that fits the garou AND is something that is a real issue where being a wolf-monster makes sense.

[Knightingale]

I mean the Monk DEF. sounds better in a medieval campaign.

But I'd say the Shepherd as a concept is valid, as this is an issue that fits the garou AND is something that is a real issue where being a wolf-monster makes sense.

Yeah, all that bugs me about the Shepherd is the idea that he "watched" as in him being a direct witness to these events. But depending on the indigenous people the abuse they suffered happened centuries ago and continued happening for centuries. It should simply be reframed as the archetype being aware of the history and so he's invested in defending what little is left.

[Ana Mizuki]

Yeah, all that bugs me about the Shepherd is the idea that he "watched" as in him being a direct witness to these events. But depending on the indigenous people the abuse they suffered happened centuries ago and continued happening for centuries. It should simply be reframed as the archetype being aware of the history and so he's invested in defending what little is left.

Actually, I can buy that he watched the ways of his people go. I'm by no means indigenous, but I have watched a lot of the cultural heritage of my country go by the wayside and more global things be adopted instead. I'm in my mid-30s, and when I was a kid our Easters involved witches heavily, we had no Halloween and every new year we predicted the future from melted tin. Now easter is mostly bunnies and chicks, Halloween is a big thing and tin is no longer melted.

And I'm an upper-middle-class white person, imagine those who already are on the ropes. The more global the nordic countries became, the easier it has been to lose unique aspects.

[Elphilm]

Is that Maria Franz from Heilung on the left? Her stage costume with the red dreads, antlers, and veiled eyes is a pretty distinctive look. A cute little homage, if true.

[Nicolas Milioni]

Is that Maria Franz from Heilung on the left? Her stage costume with the red dreads, antlers, and veiled eyes is a pretty distinctive look. A cute little homage, if true.

it's a homage to the same culture Heilung draws inspiration from, but it is not Maria herself.

[Lunar Falcon]

Huh, the artist must like the band Heilung. The left most figure is almost certainly based off of Maria Franz's hair and headress.

[Nicolas Milioni]

Huh, the artist must like the band Heilung. The left most figure is almost certainly based off of Maria Franz's hair and headress.

it's a surprisingly common costume if you look it up.

[voidshaper]

it's a surprisingly common costume if you look it up.

Just to give the context, the distinctive headdress and antlers go back to a piece of artwork that tries to reconstruct a prominent grave find from the Mesolithic (the Shaman of Bad Dürrenberg).