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Ghost Council Tribe Preview for W5

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lunar Falcon View Post
    Huh, the artist must like the band Heilung. The left most figure is almost certainly based off of Maria Franz's hair and headress.
    Definitely not a good look after the issue with the Glass Walkers art.

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    • #17
      So James Sambrano (who previously commented on his terrible time with the first iteration with W5) commented on Twitter about the Ghost Council preview. He talked about the likeness between one picture and the singer of the group Heilung. But what I found more curious and seems very troubling is something else he previously brought up as well: That elements from the first iteration of W5 have been copy-pasted into this second iteration and the question is if the original writers will be credited.

      James F. Sambrano said this in regards to that:
      Ghost Council was the name I came up with. I already knew that would appear.

      There two sentences and one paragraph that appear here that look almost like mine with some minor editing.

      There's a few that could be if you imagined heavier editing.‚Äč

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
        So James Sambrano (who previously commented on his terrible time with the first iteration with W5) commented on Twitter about the Ghost Council preview. He talked about the likeness between one picture and the singer of the group Heilung. But what I found more curious and seems very troubling is something else he previously brought up as well: That elements from the first iteration of W5 have been copy-pasted into this second iteration and the question is if the original writers will be credited.

        James F. Sambrano said this in regards to that:
        Yeah it isn't subtle either. Yet another hed pasteded on yey work. I'm trying to see if the monk is also taken from somewhere.


        My gallery.

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        • #19
          Ha! I knew I wasn't just imagining it!


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

            Yeah it isn't subtle either. Yet another hed pasteded on yey work. I'm trying to see if the monk is also taken from somewhere.
            I've been thinking as well and of course, this is pure speculation... You know how you brought up that description of how Garou can't hold a job and don't work really well with humans at one point in the preview clashes with some other portrayals we got elsewhere...? What if that's the result of the writers rushing to finish the book after last October by bringing in material from the first iteration of W5? So, the reason we get two different portrayals of Garou in some sections is that this book contains writing from two different writer-teams with two different visions of what W5 is.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Knightingale View Post

              I've been thinking as well and of course, this is pure speculation... You know how you brought up that description of how Garou can't hold a job and don't work really well with humans at one point in the preview clashes with some other portrayals we got elsewhere...? What if that's the result of the writers rushing to finish the book after last October by bringing in material from the first iteration of W5? So, the reason we get two different portrayals of Garou in some sections is that this book contains writing from two different writer-teams with two different visions of what W5 is.
              That is most likely the case in my mind as well, since we were told ONE vision by JA, then we get this current one. It feels like W5 has gone through some massive development hell.


              My gallery.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Fenixpp View Post
                Geez... this tribe seems a patchwork tribe from Legacy in a very unappealing way. It looks to me a bit of Shadow Lord, Striders (they had changed the "Travel" verb for the "Seek" verb on the Hart Warden website update post, but uploaded an older page into the PDF as it seems) and Stargazers... I guess because they won't be playable at all? Who knows...

                This tribe seems bland AF.
                Ah, so it's not just me, then.

                Seems like every writeup just hammers home a bit more that the tribes are pretty much lost without being cast as a coherent military structure. The Fera likely fair even worse (I'm still bracing for something way too close to The Hosts).

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                • #23
                  I am so very very shocked that the same mistakes(nope, I am fine saying they made the same mistakes again, thanks) are being made AGAIN, who could have seen that coming?!
                  Last edited by TyrannicalRabbit; 05-24-2023, 09:12 PM.


                  Not returning to the forums, just stopping in for a moment. CofD not getting books so we can get fed WoD5e is an insult.

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                  • #24
                    It's not really like they're making the same mistake again... it's just the one mistake is extremely pervasive. W5 basically got hit with the same problem HtV 1e did, but without the excuse of having no time to fix it after fans spotted it. Paradox should either be scrambling to scrub this artist's work from the book and get new stuff ASAP to just be safe, but we're going to just keep getting these things dribble in view the previews and they're going to fix the most egregious likeness copies.

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                    • #25
                      The thing with the art is that the reason there was this delay in reaction with the GW-preview-image was that according to Outstar they managed to talk to the people who are printing the books in time. This means things were already at that advanced stage back when that controversy happened. Seems like Paradox really wants a physical release at Gen-Con.

                      Now though...? There are only two options: Scrap the whole thing despite how close to a release it is or just... keep going. My bet it's the former. Of course, once the GW-problem with the image came up, there was always the question of how big of a problem we're talking about here: Is it just this one image or are there more problems lurking in the rest of the art once the public sees it...? Well, with this preview and knowing that there are 11 sets of these kinds of images... We all can do the math in our heads on how many images for these archetypes are likely based on real people and/or Google image-search results...

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                      • #26
                        I don't know if I understand correctly, but they seem to be a tribe made up of Ragabash from the SL, just without the auspice sense of humor, a dash of Tremere on the part of the research type, and the habit of traveling only more like Ravnos than what with Silent Striders, perhaps?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Knightingale View Post
                          The thing with the art is that the reason there was this delay in reaction with the GW-preview-image was that according to Outstar they managed to talk to the people who are printing the books in time. This means things were already at that advanced stage back when that controversy happened. Seems like Paradox really wants a physical release at Gen-Con.

                          Now though...? There are only two options: Scrap the whole thing despite how close to a release it is or just... keep going. My bet it's the former. Of course, once the GW-problem with the image came up, there was always the question of how big of a problem we're talking about here: Is it just this one image or are there more problems lurking in the rest of the art once the public sees it...? Well, with this preview and knowing that there are 11 sets of these kinds of images... We all can do the math in our heads on how many images for these archetypes are likely based on real people and/or Google image-search results...
                          I may be being biased, but many of these images would look better on Kindreds.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Psicose View Post
                            I don't know if I understand correctly, but they seem to be a tribe made up of Ragabash from the SL, just without the auspice sense of humor, a dash of Tremere on the part of the research type, and the habit of traveling only more like Ravnos than what with Silent Striders, perhaps?
                            Oh, this will only get more confusing in the context of the Silent Strider write-up, I bet. After all, we know what the first paragraph says for each of these Tribes because of the cards from the Retaliation board-game and the W5 version of Silent Striders is all about exploring the Umbra. So that part of this preview confused me a bit as well. None of the Tribes so far seemed compelling, they all give off that first-draft-vibe of an idea that needs to be refined and refocused in order to become compelling.

                            I may be being biased, but many of these images would look better on Kindreds.
                            Hey, according to the previews, just hanging out in the counterculture-scene and being really into the nightlife of a place is totally in line with being a W5 Garou-Pack .

                            But the issue with the WtA-flavor not really coming through with these previews has been an issue.

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                            • #29
                              I mean, I feel like at some point I'll get sick of saying this? But W5 can't handle 11 Tribes. I was of the opinion that WtA had too many Tribes as it was, and only the cultural links could really make so many of them functional as game elements.

                              If Tribes are going to move from cultures to archetypes, they need to be archetypal.... that's not what we're seeing.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                                I mean, I feel like at some point I'll get sick of saying this? But W5 can't handle 11 Tribes. I was of the opinion that WtA had too many Tribes as it was, and only the cultural links could really make so many of them functional as game elements.

                                If Tribes are going to move from cultures to archetypes, they need to be archetypal.... that's not what we're seeing.
                                So what specificaly are we seeing? Fan-clubs?

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