Ghost Council Tribe Preview for W5

[21C Hermit]

That Witch would’ve been perfect as a rogue Kinfolk turned Awakened lol

[Ana Mizuki]

"It’s not parlor tricks — the way so many charlatans try to pass off the Gift — it’s a genuine relationship with the world beyond the boundary of the one most humans can perceive." I mean, "charlatans try to pass off the Gift"... and it's even capital-G Gift... In this context, the capital-G Gift of this splat is being a werewolf/Garou, so that's a weird way to talk about it. What it's obviously getting at is some sort of "true magic vs parlor tricks"-distinction but... this is WtA...

The write-up just feels so weird.

But the majority of the archetypes that we've seen up to this point have had this problem of either not really giving off the vibe of either being a Garou and/or a werewolf.

I am guessing since the focus is on humanity and existing within cities, that some garou try to pass off their gifts to humans as just sleight of hand. While the witch seems to be of the opinion that doing so is stupid and they should KNOW her powers come from the spirits.

I think the best way to read these is through the lens of humanity first.

EDIT: Actually, unless a pack is mentioned, I think the best assumption is that the Archetype is the ONLY garou around/is a lone wolf.

[11twiggins]

I know this has been said to death, but if they aren't defined by their Packs, and they're all born into and live in human society, and they solve problems using human methods and jobs, and none of the character writeups mention Garou society or using any form other than Homid...

Why are these characters Werewolves.

[Ragged Robin]

I know this has been said to death, but if they aren't defined by their Packs, and they're all born into and live in human society, and they solve problems using human methods and jobs, and none of the character writeups mention Garou society or using any form other than Homid...

Why are these characters Werewolves.

Thinking on it, theyre not-theyre mages.

[Knightingale]

Was bored, so I googled a bit and I've found the image of the face the artist traced for the female soldier on this preview: It's the soldier in the middle of this article.

[Damian May]

Was bored, so I googled a bit and I've found the image of the face the artist traced for the female soldier on this preview: It's the soldier in the middle of this article.

At this point I am absolutely positive that every single piece of work this artist has done involves uncredited tracing from googled images.

[BadFurryFanFic]

At this point I am absolutely positive that every single piece of work this artist has done involves uncredited tracing from googled images.

100% Agreed.

[Knightingale]

At this point I am absolutely positive that every single piece of work this artist has done involves uncredited tracing from googled images.

Yep, I'm right there with you. Now it's only a matter of just how bad the fallout of this will be. The worst case is someone actually drags them into court over this. But somebody whose photo has been traced just going on social media and talking about how their work has been stolen or they've been depicted without permission is already enough to create some really bad PR for the book.

[Lunar Falcon]

Yep, I'm right there with you. Now it's only a matter of just how bad the fallout of this will be. The worst case is someone actually drags them into court over this. But somebody whose photo has been traced just going on social media and talking about how their work has been stolen or they've been depicted without permission is already enough to create some really bad PR for the book.

Wow. At this point, it seems like the right move legally and ethically for Paradox to take is to pull this book from the printers entirely and remove all of this artist's work from the project before resuming.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Wow. At this point, it seems like the right move legally and ethically for Paradox to take is to pull this book from the printers entirely and remove all of this artist's work from the project before resuming.

They really should. But I'm doubtful they will as they want to get the first copies to Gencon. They don't have much time and depending on how much art this person has done, it could cause significant delays and potentially prevent that.

And given how much of a growing train wreck 5E has been since they handed it off to Renegade, it wouldn't really surprise me at this point that if they just throw up their hands and ignore any further calls to replace traced/stolen artwork, caring more about getting W5 to market for Gencon.

They will most likely drop the artist and never use them again but that's about the best we can hope for really. At the moment it seems that W5 will at best be Blandwolf: the Generic and at worst, will be like H5, a horrid, misshapen mixture of Apocalypse and Forsaken that misses the point of both.

Frankly the only W5 thing I'm potentially looking forward to are any potential OPP products and fanworks on the Vault.

[Ana Mizuki]

Yep, I'm right there with you. Now it's only a matter of just how bad the fallout of this will be. The worst case is someone actually drags them into court over this. But somebody whose photo has been traced just going on social media and talking about how their work has been stolen or they've been depicted without permission is already enough to create some really bad PR for the book.

Nevermind the sources of these pictures go from photoshoots to people from IRL conflicts. Which is even WORSE.

Though, since the artist IS Polish, one has to wonder about the copyright law there. Not that it matters much in a global product like W5, but if the laws there are more permissive it might explain a few things.

[voidshaper]

Any publisher would have a talk with the artist after the fallout of the GW preview whether any other artwork was traced this way. It was obvious that once released to a wider audience, it would get noticed- especially with public figures like that. The decision to go through with it was probably already made at that point.

From what I read I get the feeling that in-house the product isn't exactly a passion project either, and they want to be just done with it. There is probably some strong executive pressure towards that as well.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Any publisher would have a talk with the artist after the fallout of the GW preview whether any other artwork was traced this way. It was obvious that once released to a wider audience, it would get noticed- especially with public figures like that. The decision to go through with it was probably already made at that point.

From what I read I get the feeling that in-house the product isn't exactly a passion project either, and they want to be just done with it. There is probably some strong executive pressure towards that as well.

Yeah I've been getting that sense to. For all their faults, the early V5 stuff at least felt like it was being done by people that cared about VtM. And of course the OPP products were brimming with love for VtM and it's history. But the more recent stuff? From what I've heard and read, it feels increasingly like a soulless cash grab, banking on the name and little else. Look at H5. Despite having the HtR name, the Imbued were retconned out in favor of a mishmash of Hunters Hunted and Hunter: the Vigil despite it actually making more sense with the material in the book for them to be Imbued Hunters rather than normal Hunters. And if they truly wanted just normal Hunters in WoD, they easily could have a Hunters Hunted 5E but they wanted the name recognition of HtR so gave it that name instead.

[Ana Mizuki]

From what I read I get the feeling that in-house the product isn't exactly a passion project either, and they want to be just done with it. There is probably some strong executive pressure towards that as well.

Yeah, W5 has been thrown about like a hot potato for YEARS. If I remember right, the By Night Studios book was using the first concept for W5.

[Manfr]

I am guessing since the focus is on humanity and existing within cities, that some garou try to pass off their gifts to humans as just sleight of hand. While the witch seems to be of the opinion that doing so is stupid and they should KNOW her powers come from the spirits.

I think the best way to read these is through the lens of humanity first.

EDIT: Actually, unless a pack is mentioned, I think the best assumption is that the Archetype is the ONLY garou around/is a lone wolf.

I'm no native English speaker here, but when I did read the piece I got the impression that it meant that usually charlatans pass off their parlor tricks for real magic, but she can see when someone has a a real Gift, like her.