BotW20th, Black Spiral Topic

[Nazfool]

In previous editions of BotW, didn't the Spirals have an alternate Renown system?

[Lyrics Of War]

I can't recall. I think so though... maybe in second edition? I can check later tonight, get back to ya on that.

[Lyrics Of War]

I didn't see one. It could well be something that never came up, what with the incessant "do not play these" disclaimers.

[Traveller]

One thing I kinda like about the changes, is that they imply that the Spirals no longer have an obligation to suicidally charge Gaian strongholds with their armies of metis cannon fodder to destroy them at any cost. If the Gaians can put up a big fight, it's in the Spirals' best interests to just avoid the caern itself and do their damage elsewhere...which makes campaign settings safer. It always seemed a little unlikely how well caerns survived against the overwhelming forces of destruction that were bent on destroying them, even if the Gaians were still losing them at a pretty rapid pace; now there's a good excuse: The Spirals just don't need to care.

[Ana Mizuki]

I can't recall. I think so though... maybe in second edition? I can check later tonight, get back to ya on that.

It's in the First edition (that is, first book of the Wyrm), Power, Cunning and Infaminity were the tenets, I think.

One thing I kinda like about the changes, is that they imply that the Spirals no longer have an obligation to suicidally charge Gaian strongholds with their armies of metis cannon fodder to destroy them at any cost. If the Gaians can put up a big fight, it's in the Spirals' best interests to just avoid the caern itself and do their damage elsewhere...which makes campaign settings safer. It always seemed a little unlikely how well caerns survived against the overwhelming forces of destruction that were bent on destroying them, even if the Gaians were still losing them at a pretty rapid pace; now there's a good excuse: The Spirals just don't need to care.

I think it also very much makes the whole thing feel quite lopsided for the Gaians. The BSDs are more interested in personal lives, personal issues.

Plus, the potential there isn't an Apocalypse? That is scary as hell to the Garou Nation.

[Nazfool]

It's in the First edition (that is, first book of the Wyrm), Power, Cunning and Infaminity were the tenets, I think.

Thank you! I knew I wasn’t crazy.

I think it also very much makes the whole thing feel quite lopsided for the Gaians. The BSDs are more interested in personal lives, personal issues.

This paints a totally different picture of Zhyzhak. Instead of the Wyrm’s Chosen Gladiatrix of Doom That Will Crush the Last Gaian King, I’m seeing her more akin to the Wyrm’s All-Star Quarterback…of Doom (that will probably crush the last Gaian king). To Spirals, I’m guessing it’s more like watching a drawn-out Superbowl than a holy war against Gaia.

Next Question: Is the Whippoorwill still the Spiral's totem? The totem is in the Google Doc, but couldn't find anything that definitively points to it as the tribe's totem...

[Lyrics Of War]

It's says most follow it like a tribal totem. Kinda ambiguous I felt.

[Nazfool]

It's says most follow it like a tribal totem. Kinda ambiguous I felt.

Must have missed that part. What page is that on?

[Derzhuzad]

Maybe I missed it but I find it strange that the book talks about the corrupted rokea but not the fallen bastet. I have to imagine that the quite a few Ceilican have been pulled into the ground given the close proximity to the Howlers back in the day.

[Lyrics Of War]

Ah it's in the totem section. I can't remember the exact page though...

[Nazfool]

Maybe I missed it but I find it strange that the book talks about the corrupted rokea but not the fallen bastet. I have to imagine that the quite a few Ceilican have been pulled into the ground given the close proximity to the Howlers back in the day.

Maybe they'll get some loven' in the extra Fallen Breeds material they promised .

[Lyrics Of War]

My bad there is nothing in the book about the whippoorwill being their tribal totem. Ah found it! Its in W20 core book. "Tribal Totem: Most Black Spiral Dancers serve the tribal
totem of Whippoorwill, a spirit of ill luck and ruin. In addition to their eerie wolf calls, Black Spirals can emulate the bird of the same name." pp 425

[Nazfool]

My bad there is nothing in the book about the whippoorwill being their tribal totem. Ah found it! Its in W20 core book. "Tribal Totem: Most Black Spiral Dancers serve the tribal
totem of Whippoorwill, a spirit of ill luck and ruin. In addition to their eerie wolf calls, Black Spirals can emulate the bird of the same name." pp 425

Kewl. That's good news for both of us: you're right and I'm not blind .

[Lyrics Of War]

Yeah they could put more BSDs info in this book, but then I'm always wanting more of that sorta info. I'm gonna have to go through all the books when I get those other pdfs from my kickstarter pledge and figure what all is retconned and what isn't.

[Nazfool]

Yeah they could put more BSDs info in this book, but then I'm always wanting more of that sorta info. I'm gonna have to go through all the books when I get those other pdfs from my kickstarter pledge and figure what all is retconned and what isn't.

It looks like their Renown system was retconned in the BotW Second Edition. IIRC, Second Edition is also when the ‘Banesword’ became the ‘Baneklaive.’ Incidentally, the mechanics of that particular Fetish changed slightly between Second and 20th Annv. As far as I can tell, the biggest retcon is Spiral zeitgeist, which I dig.