Do Supernaturals Get Willpower When Sleeping?

[Taidragon]

For the longest time I presumed that supernaturals gained a willpower if they slept. However, the group I'm with claim otherwise, save for Mages because they're more or less human. This is a Demon game, which just compounds the issue. I'm just...really, really confused.

[nofather]

Yes. I believe the rule is that 'characters' regain one Willpower for each full night's sleep. This would include supernatural characters.

Vampires are an exception, they don't regain Willpower through sleep because they don't technically sleep. Otherwise werewolves and Beasts do. I can't find a specific rule for Demons but imagine they do as well, if they sleep.

[Charlaquin]

So, context: it is the developers' stated intent that vampires not be able to regain Willpower from sleeping. Because Second Edition was originally approved by CCP as "chronicle books" rather than an official new Edition, the thinking was that these Chronicle books would be a standalone books, each with complete rules for playing the characters the gameline specifically focused on, and leaving out rules that wouldn't be pertinent for such characters. As such, Blood and Smoke: the Strix Chronicle had a chapter for vampire-specific rules, and a chapter for general system rules, but the chapter for general system rules left out any rules that were not relevant for playing vampires, such as Integrity, Virtue, Vice, and (since Vampires were not meant to be able to regain Willpower by sleeping), any mention of regaining Willpower by sleeping. In theory, books that focused on characters that could regain Willpower by sleeping would mention that. Unfortunately, since vampire was the first "Chronicle book", and subsequent Second Edition corebooks used basically the same chapter layout with minor variations, the general system rules chapter has just been copied over from Requiem for each 2e core book. This has had the unfortunate side-effect of most gamelines (mistakenly) not making mention of Willpower being regained by sleeping, because Requiem (intentionally) didn't.

[Taidragon]

About the only new materials I've found that subvert this problem is the Changeling preview materials, where Changelings can choose either the Gates of Ivory or Horn (I think), allowing them to either stay in the normal world and not get a willpower, but likewise not dream, or disappear and enter the Hedge in a dream bastion. I'm seriously hoping that more materials/rules like that are mentioned, because it otherwise makes getting willpower back surprisingly difficult. One willpower a day, for an uninterrupted rest, may seem like little, but for beings like Demons it's a godsend, because even if you have one willpower you can still make a life saving pact.

[nofather]

To be fair, the alternative of playing up your vices or virtues isn't that harsh an alternative.

It does seem like Changelings has it too, but it's clearly as an option where you might not be getting a restful nigh sleep.

[Diggs]

Demon is not a stand-alone book, so it uses the Chronicles of Darkness book for rules which states "a character regains one point of spent Willpower for each full night's sleep she gets." Unlike Vampires, Demons sleep so there you go. I think any 2e book would use that rule unless the book addresses it.

[Dave Brookshaw]

Mage 2e does say that mages regain willpower for sleeping - it's tucked away on page 213.

[MCN]

A bit more context - the developers, during the time when they were talking about this, also mentioned that the section that talked about it actually got deleted during editing, and never got added back in.

So, now its kind of up in the air, and, other than Mage, its just not mentioned in the books. Which leaves it up to individual STs to decide one way or another. Its really not a hard rule either way. Some will argue that it should be, but there's no definite hard rule in the books that say you should or should not. And, given that most writers here accept the idea of Death of the Author, that leaves a lot open if its not in the book specifically. Which is fine - to each their own games.


Anyways, more context! Part of the reason why the vampires do get effectively two Virtues and Vices (you can indulge both Masquerade or Requiem as if a vice or fulfill it as if a virtue) is because of that original plan of no-sleep-willpower. This would provide the Kindred with the willpower on a roughly equal par with humans. Demons, meanwhile, have only the one Virtue and one Vice they can fulfill or indulge, like humans. So, the logic behind supernatural virtue-vice equivalents don't even apply to the Unchained, which should be considered as well.

[Yossarian]

It's also in Beast in the same section as Mage. I believe it's just Werewolf and Promethean where it was unintentionally omitted; Promethean is an odd case because its rules chapter was done up before Mage (or so I remember someone saying?), even though it was released afterward.

[Ever Professional]

Anyways, more context! Part of the reason why the vampires do get effectively two Virtues and Vices (you can indulge both Masquerade or Requiem as if a vice or fulfill it as if a virtue) is because of that original plan of no-sleep-willpower. This would provide the Kindred with the willpower on a roughly equal par with humans. Demons, meanwhile, have only the one Virtue and one Vice they can fulfill or indulge, like humans. So, the logic behind supernatural virtue-vice equivalents don't even apply to the Unchained, which should be considered as well.

Can you expand upon why the Mask and Dirges would be equal to essentially two Virtues and Vices? I know when I play vampire I'm typically always low on my willpowe because I hardly ever get any back, and when I do it is essentially always one willpower point. Honestly, vampires seem to have the worst willpower regain because outside of the Mask and Dirge the only way to get willpower back is by defending your attachment to one of your touchstones.

[Charlaquin]

Can you expand upon why the Mask and Dirges would be equal to essentially two Virtues and Vices? I know when I play vampire I'm typically always low on my willpowe because I hardly ever get any back, and when I do it is essentially always one willpower point. Honestly, vampires seem to have the worst willpower regain because outside of the Mask and Dirge the only way to get willpower back is by defending your attachment to one of your touchstones.

Vice gives you back one Willpower.
Virtue gives you back all Willpower.

Mask gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
Dirge also gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
Vampires get both Mask and Dirge, therefore they have twice as many ways to regain one Willpower as humans, and twice as many ways to regain all Willpower.

[Ever Professional]

Vice gives you back one Willpower.
Virtue gives you back all Willpower.

Mask gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
Dirge also gives you back one Willpower or all Willpower.
Vampires get both Mask and Dirge, therefore they have twice as many ways to regain one Willpower as humans, and twice as many ways to regain all Willpower.

Yeah, I guess in theory that works, but I've never gotten all my willpower back from either the Mask or Dirge, and I generally consider myself lucky if I get one point back. From what I've played from Hunter and Mage as well getting willpower back from Virtue or Vice is also kind of rare.

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I guess in theory that works, but I've never gotten all my willpower back from either the Mask or Dirge, and I generally consider myself lucky if I get one point back. From what I've played from Hunter and Mage as well getting willpower back from Virtue or Vice is also kind of rare.

Did you pick a Mask and Dirge your character frequently engages in? If not that might be your problem. If so, it might be your ST being too stingy with giving Willpower for engaging in Anchors.

[Ever Professional]

Did you pick a Mask and Dirge your character frequently engages in? If not that might be your problem. If so, it might be your ST being too stingy with giving Willpower for engaging in Anchors.

Well my Mask and Dirge for my current game are Spy and Survivor respectively. In our last session my character was sent to steal a book from the Ordo, but he ended up getting in a fight with a ghoul; when he won it was apparent that the ghoul saw his face, and so he killed the ghoul to get rid of a witness; he then proceeded to get the book and get out. I got one willpower point back after that.

[Charlaquin]

Well my Mask and Dirge for my current game are Spy and Survivor respectively. In our last session my character was sent to steal a book from the Ordo, but he ended up getting in a fight with a ghoul; when he won it was apparent that the ghoul saw his face, and so he killed the ghoul to get rid of a witness; he then proceeded to get the book and get out. I got one willpower point back after that.

Ok. That doesn't seem to line up with Survivor, but it should definitely work for Spy. Did this book contain really damning secrets, or just stuff the Ordo would rather keep private?