American Gods as CofD chronicle

[wyrdhamster]

Someone need to make this topic, so maybe it's me, as I'm fan of the book. So yesterday STARZ started to show their 'American Gods' TV series, based on the titular novel of Neil Gaiman. And plot is... well... about Gods in America. TV series seems to be rather faithful to book original, and has great and colorful visuals of the books scenes. Just see the trailer if you did not watched.

Now, as to using book or TV series as CoD chronicle - let's focus on Gods. Story of Shadow ( character ) is important, but not as direct inspiration. Gods in this universe works very similar to those of Scion RPG - I would even point to my small idea topic how to recreate then in CoD as SuperGoetia from Temenos, comparable more to less primal Horrors of BtP. But let's stop with this direct port.

We can also looks on Gods as inspirations for powerful Shadow Realm Spirits, much more limited by their worshipers rules than in normal CoD rules. But it works that way - Gods have Bans, need generated Essence, are divided over Old Beliefs and Technology Choirs / Umia, need to fight over worship. Then most of Gods characters would work nicely as at least Urged ( or even Claimed ) individuals, living with their 'godhood' inside them. Scenes like opening actions of Vikings in America and their sacrifices - are great inspiration of what Shadow's Spirits could driven their worshipers to doing, only to generate Essence.

[BunniRabbi]

You know, I've always loved the concept of Scion, but never liked the execution. When we did Scion most recently with my local group we used the More Than Human fan system for WoD. It needs a little update for 2E, but you might find it useful too. It's meant for playing superhero characters, but needs almost no editing to be used for what you are talking about.

https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/MTH:Main_Page

[GibberingEloquence]

You know how it has been mentioned in the spoilers for Geist 2ED that Geister are essentially Rank 3+ ghosts that replace their Anchors in the living world with an Anchor to a death-related concept by drinking from one of the Rivers of the Underworld? It was also mentioned that the Bargain they offer mortals is different from the Claim Manifestation, and that Geister can do both.

This made me think that gods in human form could be mortals who fused with special and powerful Goetia which have a Manifestation that is analogous to the Bargain. I prefer the source of the divinity to be Goetic in nature because Spirits are inherently predatory and often alien. Goetia, on the other hand, have more room for nuanced personalities.

Whether these gods in human form would be a major or micro template, I don't know. Regardless, you can certainly borrow ideas from Demigod: The Empyrean, Irin: The Announced and the Supernatural Merit Templates from Hurt Locker, pages 77 to 105.

What do you think?

[Tessie]

Actually, the only requirement for a ghost to become a geist is to know the Bargain Manifestation. It's the Manifestation that can result in the Bound (aka Sin-Eaters). A geist could also Claim people, but only if it has the Claim Manifestation. And it can't use both at the same time, obviously.

[GibberingEloquence]

Actually, the only requirement for a ghost to become a geist is to know the Bargain Manifestation. It's the Manifestation that can result in the Bound (aka Sin-Eaters). A geist could also Claim people, but only if it has the Claim Manifestation. And it can't use both at the same time, obviously.

Thank you for correcting me.

What do you think of the idea I mentioned in my previous post in this thread? I'm thinking about being cheeky and calling the Bargain equivalent of these super Goetia the Exaltation.

[glamourweaver]

You know, I've always loved the concept of Scion, but never liked the execution.

You're going to want to check out 2nd Edition I think. I don't want to get too negative on 1st Edition, but suffice to say that the current team are very aware of its mechanical issues and narrative limitations.

[21C Hermit]

This made me think that gods in human form could be mortals who fused with special and powerful Goetia which have a Manifestation that is analogous to the Bargain. I prefer the source of the divinity to be Goetic in nature because Spirits are inherently predatory and often alien. Goetia, on the other hand, have more room for nuanced personalities.

Seconding this for the most accurate as we can get portrayal of "gods walking amongst us" sort of stuff. Especially considering that the gods in American Gods explicitly have multiple incarnations that differ along cultures. The only limitation to executing this I can think of is that Goetia have a hard time Manifesting in the physical world, barring Awakened intervention. Perhaps the gods are something more like Beasts, but of the Bright Dream instead of the Primordial?

[wyrdhamster]

The only limitation to executing this I can think of is that Goetia have a hard time Manifesting in the physical world, barring Awakened intervention. Perhaps the gods are something more like Beasts, but of the Bright Dream instead of the Primordial?

That was my idea I mentioned earlier - maybe my lower class of English don't let me to express it. I mentioned Spirits interpretation as also another way of seeing things, giving some thoughts for Werewolf games, for example. But sure, most close relation for Gods involvement would be making them 'superGoetia' that Claim some mortals resonating with them.

[21C Hermit]

That was my idea I mentioned earlier - maybe my lower class of English don't let me to express it. I mentioned Spirits interpretation as also another way of seeing things, giving some thoughts for Werewolf games, for example. But sure, most close relation for Gods involvement would be making them 'superGoetia' that Claim some mortals resonating with them.

Yes, but I was also trying to puzzle whether Scion-style Fate would be something like Hungers or the Monomyth. And the Insatiable might be related to Titans and Titanspawn, since they both represent forces of nature divorced from the human perspective.

EDIT: And making the gods not just Claimed by special Goetia, but something more like the Bargain or the Devouring. A fundamental and two-way change affecting both the human and the Astral entity, the result being neither of the two and more than their sum.

[wyrdhamster]

Yes, but I was also trying to puzzle whether Scion-style Fate would be something like Hungers or the Monomyth. And the Insatiable might be related to Titans and Titanspawn, since they both represent forces of nature divorced from the human perspective.

Titans and Titanspawn sounds a lot more like Horrors and Begotten in the first place. Remember, the Gods in myths FIGHT with Hydra, Kraken and all the rest of monsters.

EDIT: And making the gods not just Claimed by special Goetia, but something more like the Bargain or the Devouring. A fundamental and two-way change affecting both the human and the Astral entity, the result being neither of the two and more than their sum.

Have good name for this 'something like Bargain or Devouring' for Astral Gods?

[Yossarian]

It's not the right WoD, but just based on the first episode, I got a very Mage: The Ascension feel off it. Very Traditions vs. Technocracy (I haven't read the book, but my friend and partner both tell me that's a decent enough way of looking at it).

For CofD, I almost got a Werewolf meets Demon feel. I really liked it...

[ArcaneArts]

It's not the right WoD, but just based on the first episode, I got a very Mage: The Ascension feel off it. Very Traditions vs. Technocracy (I haven't read the book, but my friend and partner both tell me that's a decent enough way of looking at it).

For CofD, I almost got a Werewolf meets Demon feel. I really liked it...

Ascension is definitely the way to go about the gods in America, fallen or ascending as they are. A lot of those same themes are present in American Gods.

Demon fits the new gods quite well (you'd just have to tweak some of the more religious elements, and not all that much), but the old gods? Tough to say.

[Yossarian]

Ascension is definitely the way to go about the gods in America, fallen or ascending as they are. A lot of those same themes are present in American Gods.

Demon fits the new gods quite well (you'd just have to tweak some of the more religious elements, and not all that much), but the old gods? Tough to say.

Yeah, the old gods are my sticking point on an analogue, too. Werewolf kind of fits for superficial reasons, but I feel like there's a little Changeling and Mage, and a dash of Beast.

[ArcaneArts]

Yeah, the old gods are my sticking point on an analogue, too. Werewolf kind of fits for superficial reasons, but I feel like there's a little Changeling and Mage, and a dash of Beast.

I was arguing to myself that you could make a stew of sorts out of Sin-Eaters, Forsaken, Awakening, and Lost with a fluff metaphysical backbone similar to Beast (Looking at you, [REDACTED in case no one's read the books])-but that would involve a lot of hacking.

I hate to argue the easiest way to do is cast the old gods as mages with limitations-they are more akin to spirits and goetia in the Chronicles paradigm-but, well, it would be the easiest way to do it.

Well, apart from just casting the lot as Horrors(non-Beast).

[wyrdhamster]

I hate to argue the easiest way to do is cast the old gods as mages with limitations-they are more akin to spirits and goetia in the Chronicles paradigm-but, well, it would be the easiest way to do it.

Well, apart from just casting the lot as Horrors(non-Beast).

Spirits and Goetia still can have Influences that more or less works as Arcana minus complex mechanics on higher dots - so I'm still much more for those 'Ephemeral Entities' interpretations. And Beasts Horrors are 'just' superGoetia, don't they?