Designing Void Spirits

[nofather]

I might be mistaken, but my impression is that the Goetia in your head are based mostly on different aspects of your psyche. There might be a Thor in your head, but only if that's the most appropriate form for your relationship to superhero/action media, and how powerful that Goetia would be would rather stem from how big a part that interest plays in your life.
Thor (both Marvel and mythological versions) would rather be parts of the Temenos, and there their Rank would mostly depend on how much people think about them.

Yeah, presumably someone who had Thor as such a massive figure in their life would have other psychological issues, but without getting into the myriad possibilities of the human mind, generally if something's big for you it's powerful in Rank.

I think the ephemeral section in Mage points this out, with Ranks across the spectrum not really being limited the way ghosts, angels and spirits are.

But Goetia are generally something you'll only see in mage, which should help to keep them separate from spirits and other things.

[Tessie]

Doesn't seem like it, if you think Thor is the most powerful being in the universe, if I go into your head, Thor's the biggest thing there.

I might be mistaken, but my impression is that the Goetia in your head are based mostly on different aspects of your psyche. There might be a Thor in your head, but only if that's the most appropriate form for your relationship to superhero/action media, and how powerful that Goetia would be would rather stem from how big a part that interest plays in your life.
Thor (both Marvel and mythological versions) would rather be parts of the Temenos, and there their Rank would mostly depend on how much people think about them.

[nofather]

Are Goetia getting less powerful as the public is becoming less homogenous in thought?

Doesn't seem like it, if you think Thor is the most powerful being in the universe, if I go into your head, Thor's the biggest thing there.

Also,even disregarding the fact that they are supposed to be natural parts of the psyche, are the emotions from Inside Out good Goetia material, more like spirits, or too complex to be either?

Goetia. They're not like spirits at all, have no source or requirement outside of the person or animal's head. Far too human oriented, as well. A spirit might take a human form but it would never honestly act like a human.

[Master Aquatosic]

Are Goetia getting less powerful as the public is becoming less homogenous in thought?

Also,even disregarding the fact that they are supposed to be natural parts of the psyche, are the emotions from Inside Out good Goetia material, more like spirits, or too complex to be either?

[Vent0]

Goetia are an individual person's memory, understanding, or concept of something, I think sometimes a group of peoples, in this, they can be skewed by perception, someone remembering their father Stabby McStabberson as a great guy because they never found out he was a slasher. Spirits are the actual reflection of it, as in born in the world, it's divorced from human perception, so that house the girl grew up in with her slasher father may have seemed nice but it's full of dark secrets, murderous intent and naivety.

Goetics are also about humanity's collective ideas about a subject as well.

And whatever is sourcing Goetia found in the Anima Mundi, too.

[LostLight]

My view about ephemerals-

The spirit is the table, the goetia is what you think the table is, the ghost is how you remember the table and an angel is how that table could be used.

[nofather]

Honestly, I've never really understood the difference between Goetics and conceptual spirits outside of the manifestation restrictions placed on Goetics.

Goetia are an individual person's memory, understanding, or concept of something, I think sometimes a group of peoples, in this, they can be skewed by perception, someone remembering their father Stabby McStabberson as a great guy because they never found out he was a slasher. Spirits are the actual reflection of it, as in born in the world, it's divorced from human perception, so that house the girl grew up in with her slasher father may have seemed nice but it's full of dark secrets, murderous intent and naivety.

[Master Aquatosic]

For the Spirits-of-cast-off-ideas, it might be better to go Goetics. Those might have once represented those concepts/ideas in the Temenos, but now need to trick or force others to think such things into order to get enough Essence to survive.

Honestly, I've never really understood the difference between Goetics and conceptual spirits outside of the manifestation restrictions placed on Goetics.

[Vent0]

Are Abyssal Spirits a thing? Those could be spirits of Anti-truth. And if you don't want to use the Abyss, perhaps take a page from Genius and have spirits of disproved ideologies and worldviews that try to encourage people to believe in them in spite of proof. In essence, spirits obsessed with trying to make people believe in Phrenology or the Hollow Earth (though that last one might be a real thing in the CoD). Or perhaps more general spirits that get essence from people denying anything that tries to change their pre-concieved ideas. Though that might also be more spirits of stubbornness..

Hmm, frankly, some of these might not be void enough, but I still like them.

For the Spirits-of-cast-off-ideas, it might be better to go Goetics. Those might have once represented those concepts/ideas in the Temenos, but now need to trick or force others to think such things into order to get enough Essence to survive.

[Master Aquatosic]

Are Abyssal Spirits a thing? Those could be spirits of Anti-truth. And if you don't want to use the Abyss, perhaps take a page from Genius and have spirits of disproved ideologies and worldviews that try to encourage people to believe in them in spite of proof. In essence, spirits obsessed with trying to make people believe in Phrenology or the Hollow Earth (though that last one might be a real thing in the CoD). Or perhaps more general spirits that get essence from people denying anything that tries to change their pre-concieved ideas. Though that might also be more spirits of stubbornness..

Hmm, frankly, some of these might not be void enough, but I still like them.

[nofather]

The Book of Spirits has Hollow Men, which are Rank 3 spirits of Oblivion.

'Many would say that these strange beings are conceptual-spirits of the bleakest, nihilistic wastelands of human thought and emotion. Some say they are representations of the capricious hand of fate. When pressed, these creatures claim to be elementals of void. Strangely, most elementals attack them on sight or flee from their presence. None will actually claim Hollow Men.'

And Sas'suga Isim, in the core book, is an idigam with Influences of Entropy, that creates 'Entropy Elementals' from existing spirits. The idigam itself is suitably nasty, of course, basically dragging at the order of the universe around it.

[Hastur00]

Seems appropriate for Scriptorian's ideas.

Though for clarification on my void spirits, I'm keeping clear of death-related things, since those seem more like their own category.

I agree- I was just having a hard time thinking of world-scale catastrophies that were more than palette-swapped variations on the theme of planetary destruction.

How about Lifelessness? Not the cessation of existing life, just the absence or impossibility of existing life. It drifts through the inhospitable void, beatifically still and unaware of the paradox of its own existence, until it encounters a world inimical and inconceivable to its mindset. It then then serenely and methodically corrects the anomaly. Something with a motivation like the Auditors of Discworld, but less peevish and bloody-minded and more This Shall Not Be.

[BronzeDog]

So would an Ultrabeast which preyed on the fears of mass or global extinction be about the right scale for a horror of that magnitude?

Come to think of it, would Extinction be an appropriate Void flavor? The absence of a species?

Seems appropriate for Scriptorian's ideas.

Though for clarification on my void spirits, I'm keeping clear of death-related things, since those seem more like their own category.

[Hastur00]

can we take this up to 11 and get a primordial monster that originates from the Sidereal Wastes? And then I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlgxOo55IQ"]laughed evilly[/URL] to myself, because the answer was yes. You should now be picturing a colossal, mind-breakingly alien entity that dwells in the Void and feeds off of fear on the scale of worlds.

So would an Ultrabeast which preyed on the fears of mass or global extinction be about the right scale for a horror of that magnitude?

Come to think of it, would Extinction be an appropriate Void flavor? The absence of a species?

[Malus]

One notion of enlightenment is the lack of need for anything. Bodhisattvas attempt to emulate this.