Contagion Chronicle Kickstarter

[Tessie]

And the contagion Chronicles players guide recommends getting rid of the hunter exception, at least within the players group, as quickly as possible. Hopefully, my suggested errata about pointing out a sleepwalker merit (fitful slumber) from M2e that's particularly appropriate for this purpose will get accepted.

I think the regular Sleepwalker Merit is a better fit (hehe). Fitful Slumber is for those who become Sleepwalkers through exposure to Supernal/Abyssal stuff. That implies they've been specifically involved in magey stuff, which might not be relevant at all in a Contagion Chronicle game. It'd work great in a Mage/Hunter crossover game, though.
As a sidenote, I don't know why they don't also suggest getting a Vector as an alternative to a Supernatural Merit or supernatural Endowment.

[ArcaneArts]

Well, kind of. I expect that the main game line are going to continue to operate under the assumption that they're insulated from the other game lines. For example, I don't expect that the upcoming mage supplement that deals with the orders is going to have a section in it talking about what the change lane in the orders ranked are up to. As far as mage supplements are concerned, there are no change names in the ranks of the orders. It's only in contagion chronicle supplements in particular, or crossover Chronicles in general, that you're ever going to see changelings in the mage orders.

That said, I would definitely love to see more contagion chronicle supplements; and I would definitely love it if said supplements embrace what you're talking about here.

Oh yeah, I don't expect to set a new normal-but there's an intereseting space that can't be uncracked, as it were.

[Dataweaver]

I feel like this dismisses the actual gist of the last third section's full weight. Multi-splat characters are interesting, even a wrinkle I've played with, but no.

What the Contagion PG feels like is a breaking down of the last barrier to what Chronicles wants to say. World start off in a highly regimented world view that broke down as time went on, a point of view that Chronicles started with-that everyone belongs in the same universe, but has their own reasons for keeping to themselves.

The Contagion PG finally says "Fuuuuuuuck that", because now there are changelings in Mage Orders, werewolves intgrating Lodges with Changeling Orders, Beasts in covenants and vampires in in broods, demons have outsiders in their Agencies, Guilds have demons in their rank-

THe last barrier towards Chronicles' Archetypalism versus World's Specificity has been breached. Chronicles is now a full on global setting, where you really just can't expect any group of monsters to just be one type, where a game with nothing but one type of monster is no longer what's expected, even desired.

And it's a minor breach, in comparison to a lot of the rest of the book, and much more on how this is a niche product for a high-level-of-Chronicles-literacy-but it's enough.

It's not going to turn out this way, but it feels like the insularity of gameline as gameline is now strikingly fluid, and Chronicles sort just has what it need to be fucking weird and experimental and trying and consequential in a way it......has been before, but not on this subject.

The world doesn't need it's members to be a character made to fit the conflict that asks for characters made for it.

The world, post Contagion, and VERY DEFINITELY Post-ContagionPG, has stopped being about persons in particulars, and more about struggle and responses, annnnnnd....

I both love and hate that approach. I lean more into it than I hate it, but, like-

I can't live in a world with it's walls anymore, even on Beast where that was it's own fluid shit.

And that is exciting, and scary, and above all else, really interesting. It suggests a 3rd edition that does away with the semi-wiped away Y-splat, a game that is as much about monsters just grouping under trees while the rain is blood while ancient monster conspiracies of fae word and vampire blood and Uratha carnality and Awakened lusts and Unchained schemes and Arisen Schemes and Beast familiarity and Promethean hunger and hunter resistance and Sin-Eater acceptance and Deviant drive all coalesce into weird and impossible shapes.

The world no longer feels isolated, and as someone who was always slipping in reminders that no splat was alone in any game, that's fucking huge.

On record, I dunno if that's a good thing or not. I like it, but I can see the trades.

Well, kind of. I expect that the main game line are going to continue to operate under the assumption that they're insulated from the other game lines. For example, I don't expect that the upcoming mage supplement that deals with the orders is going to have a section in it talking about what the change lane in the orders ranked are up to. As far as mage supplements are concerned, there are no change names in the ranks of the orders. It's only in contagion chronicle supplements in particular, or crossover Chronicles in general, that you're ever going to see changelings in the mage orders.

That said, I would definitely love to see more contagion chronicle supplements; and I would definitely love it if said supplements embrace what you're talking about here.

[ArcaneArts]

And the contagion Chronicles players guide recommends getting rid of the hunter exception, at least within the players group, as quickly as possible. Hopefully, my suggested errata about pointing out a sleepwalker merit (fitful slumber) from M2e that's particularly appropriate for this purpose will get accepted.

Heading off the old arguments that might be buried here, it should be pointed out that Hunters being sleepwalkers has more to do with facilitating the crossover, and more importantly Hunters being Sleepwalkers does not remove the Catch-22 of Hunters basically being up a creek when hunting the Awakened. Nothing about the Hunter/Mage Argument has changed with the Contagion PG.

[Dataweaver]

THere is not a way for a changeling to be a Sleeper.

The point is that supernatural entities, including all of the major gameline protagonists barring Hunter, have counted as Sleepwalkers since *checks notes* Mage the Awakening Corebook, First Edition.

And the contagion Chronicles players guide recommends getting rid of the hunter exception, at least within the players group, as quickly as possible. Hopefully, my suggested errata about pointing out a sleepwalker merit (fitful slumber) from M2e that's particularly appropriate for this purpose will get accepted.

[21C Hermit]

THere is not a way for a changeling to be a Sleeper.

The point is that supernatural entities, including all of the major gameline protagonists barring Hunter, have counted as Sleepwalkers since *checks notes* Mage the Awakening Corebook, First Edition.

Ah, so it’s just as I already knew. My bad. My logic engine must’ve fried out. Gotta go to the nearest Logistics Infrastructure.

[ArcaneArts]

Wait, what? Am I reading something wrong, or is there now some way for a changeling to be not a Sleepwalker? As in, a changeling being a Sleeper?

THere is not a way for a changeling to be a Sleeper.

The point is that supernatural entities, including all of the major gameline protagonists barring Hunter, have counted as Sleepwalkers since *checks notes* Mage the Awakening Corebook, First Edition.

[21C Hermit]

Mild correction-there is something now stopping your Changeling from being a Sleepwalker, and that's that all supernatural's were Sleepwalkers loooong before this.

Wait, what? Am I reading something wrong, or is there now some way for a changeling to be not a Sleepwalker? As in, a changeling being a Sleeper?

[ArcaneArts]

Technically there's nothing now stopping your Changeling character from being a Sleepwalker -

Mild correction-there is something now stopping your Changeling from being a Sleepwalker, and that's that all supernatural's were Sleepwalkers loooong before this.

[Aurumae]

They can do what?!

Technically there's nothing now stopping your Changeling character from being a Sleepwalker (or even Proximi), Wolf-Blooded, Ghoul, and Stigmatic other than the Clarity damage it will do to your Storyteller

[ArcaneArts]

Ah; so that's the concern? Multi-splat characters? In a supplement about crossovers? If you're going to knock the walls down, this would be the place.

I feel like this dismisses the actual gist of the last third section's full weight. Multi-splat characters are interesting, even a wrinkle I've played with, but no.

What the Contagion PG feels like is a breaking down of the last barrier to what Chronicles wants to say. World start off in a highly regimented world view that broke down as time went on, a point of view that Chronicles started with-that everyone belongs in the same universe, but has their own reasons for keeping to themselves.

The Contagion PG finally says "Fuuuuuuuck that", because now there are changelings in Mage Orders, werewolves intgrating Lodges with Changeling Orders, Beasts in covenants and vampires in in broods, demons have outsiders in their Agencies, Guilds have demons in their rank-

THe last barrier towards Chronicles' Archetypalism versus World's Specificity has been breached. Chronicles is now a full on global setting, where you really just can't expect any group of monsters to just be one type, where a game with nothing but one type of monster is no longer what's expected, even desired.

And it's a minor breach, in comparison to a lot of the rest of the book, and much more on how this is a niche product for a high-level-of-Chronicles-literacy-but it's enough.

It's not going to turn out this way, but it feels like the insularity of gameline as gameline is now strikingly fluid, and Chronicles sort just has what it need to be fucking weird and experimental and trying and consequential in a way it......has been before, but not on this subject.

The world doesn't need it's members to be a character made to fit the conflict that asks for characters made for it.

The world, post Contagion, and VERY DEFINITELY Post-ContagionPG, has stopped being about persons in particulars, and more about struggle and responses, annnnnnd....

I both love and hate that approach. I lean more into it than I hate it, but, like-

I can't live in a world with it's walls anymore, even on Beast where that was it's own fluid shit.

And that is exciting, and scary, and above all else, really interesting. It suggests a 3rd edition that does away with the semi-wiped away Y-splat, a game that is as much about monsters just grouping under trees while the rain is blood while ancient monster conspiracies of fae word and vampire blood and Uratha carnality and Awakened lusts and Unchained schemes and Arisen Schemes and Beast familiarity and Promethean hunger and hunter resistance and Sin-Eater acceptance and Deviant drive all coalesce into weird and impossible shapes.

The world no longer feels isolated, and as someone who was always slipping in reminders that no splat was alone in any game, that's fucking huge.

On record, I dunno if that's a good thing or not. I like it, but I can see the trades.

[Dataweaver]

Ah; so that's the concern? Multi-splat characters? In a supplement about crossovers? If you're going to knock the walls down, this would be the place.

Frankly, my own concerns about it are twofold: first, the game system complications of someone having, say, both Sekhem and a dot of Blood Potency; do too much blending, and the character sheet becomes a nightmare to manage. Second, can the potentially clashing themes be synergized into something interesting?

Still, if you can synergize the concepts, and you don't find the mesh of traits overwhelming, and the group is okay with it, why not?

[EndlessKng]

Eh, for me it's both unchaining vampires and letting them flex in ways that are appropriate for them....and at the same time reintroducing the "Every mage is a ghoul" problem I ran into all the time with World players and fear running into for anyone familiar with this supplement.

Fortunately, the proportion in comparison, so I can carefully introduce that factor as I care to.

I suppose I'm more concerned about the BROADER implications of that question in the FAQ. Mage Ghouls are a possibility, but that's nothing compared to the fact that ALL such crossovers are, at least as far as the official word is concerned, open all the way.

Then again, it's a table rule thing, and I doubt there will be further official support. But still, big change to codify. They had been slowly killing it as they said, but honestly the rules still implied that there were some barriers and those are just... not a thing.

[ArcaneArts]

See... I'm surprised this is the ONLY mention of this change in this thread thus far. I am a bit late to checking out the PDF evidently, but while I agree with ArcaneArts that the last ten pages are a game-changer, I honestly think that's nothing compared to this change - and the fact that it's only a small part of the change that was made. I am not sure how much we're supposed to discuss in public though, but this, right here, is the thing that has WAY bigger implications, IMO.

Eh, for me it's both unchaining vampires and letting them flex in ways that are appropriate for them....and at the same time reintroducing the "Every mage is a ghoul" problem I ran into all the time with World players and fear running into for anyone familiar with this supplement.

Fortunately, the proportion in comparison, so I can carefully introduce that factor as I care to.

[EndlessKng]

They can do what?!

See... I'm surprised this is the ONLY mention of this change in this thread thus far. I am a bit late to checking out the PDF evidently, but while I agree with ArcaneArts that the last ten pages are a game-changer, I honestly think that's nothing compared to this change - and the fact that it's only a small part of the change that was made. I am not sure how much we're supposed to discuss in public though, but this, right here, is the thing that has WAY bigger implications, IMO.