Practitioners of the Invisible Arts (Cultist Simulator in Chronicles)

[ajf115]

So, due to a complex series of circumstances I ended up basically writing up mechanics for playing a character from the Weather Factory game Cultist Simulator in Chronicles of Darkness.

Now, I know we have more than enough cultists around these parts, but if nothing else Cultist Simulator has a strong atmosphere and thematics to it. Characters begin as something closest to mortal occultists, but through dedication to the secret Principles of the world, and exploration of the Mansus - sometimes called the House of the Sun - which stands in dreams and perhaps service to the Hours, the secret gods which dwell there, they can become rather more than merely mortal.

The core of the thing is playable, but I need ideas for Merits and rituals to flesh it out more, as well as general second opinions on mechanics. I'm more than happy to discuss it here or in the CultSim Discord, and to field ideas.


If you're at all interested, please take a look at the document linked here, and leave comments or posts on the thread.

[21C Hermit]

I WANTED TO DO THIS TOO DAM-

Just kidding, of course. I probably couldn’t have done it well enough, since I never actually played the game. But the lore, oooh...

Anyways, will read once I get back to my laptop.



EDIT: Secret Histories is curiously missing. Why?

[ajf115]

I WANTED TO DO THIS TOO DAM-

Just kidding, of course. I probably couldn’t have done it well enough, since I never actually played the game. But the lore, oooh...

Anyways, will read once I get back to my laptop.



EDIT: Secret Histories is curiously missing. Why?

Secret Histories isn't really a power in itself. It's 'just' knowledge.

[21C Hermit]

True, but if the Principles can substitute for Skills, I thought it could still have a use.


More questions: What would a Hallow look like? Maybe the Burgeoning Corpse could have some healing ability to reflect the Phyraxian aspect? Any ‘official’ stance on how this fits with the wider CofD cosmologies, especially with Ritual Sorcerers and the Astral?

[ajf115]

True, but if the Principles can substitute for Skills, I thought it could still have a use.

Hmm. On one hand, I can see your point there, but on the other if it doesn't have magical Merits and the like, I can only really see Secret Histories as a 'dump Principle', as it were.

More questions: What would a Hallow look like?

It very much depends on what kind of Influence the Hallow produces. A Hallow of Knock is probably a building where doors don't work right, or open into places they shouldn't, or which is inhabited by a Younger Sister. Meanwhile a Moth-Hallow is a place of whimsy and woods and at least a little bit of madness.

Maybe the Burgeoning Corpse could have some healing ability to reflect the Phyraxian aspect?

I have been wondering about how that could potentially be implemented. Going by the description of its Phylaxian ability:

I will place a lock of hair in the hollow of this one's chest, and with luck, one day, the sickness will seek me there instead.

It seems to be less of a 'do this to cure a disease' thing and more a preventative measure, of sorts. That said, diseases are generally less central/vital in CofD compared to the Cultist Simulator game. So I'm not entirely sure how to handle it.

Any ‘official’ stance on how this fits with the wider CofD cosmologies, especially with Ritual Sorcerers and the Astral?

So, you could handle it by just adding the Mansus to the existing CofD cosmology, but my personal approach would essentially be to substitute the Mansus for the Astral, and to remove the Underworld. The dead, if they linger, do so on Earth or pass into the House of the Sun, where they may linger, or pass the White Door to become Voiceless and rest amidst the Orchard of Lights, or make the Ascent of Knives into the service of the Sun-in-Rags. I think spirits are pretty compatible with a CultSim game - You'd probably want Lantern to see things in Twilight and Knock to breach the Gauntlet - but in general this isn't really something I'd want to run as a crossover with any of the major gamelines.

Regarding ritual sorcerers, I've been considering that, and I do somewhat like the idea that practitioners are natural ritual sorcerers, and can substitute Influences for Pillar points to some extent. On the other hand, it might be easier to just have a lot of closed rites have equivalents in rituals.

[21C Hermit]

Hmm. On one hand, I can see your point there, but on the other if it doesn't have magical Merits and the like, I can only really see Secret Histories as a 'dump Principle', as it were.

Yeah, Dump Stats should be avoided. Hmm... maybe it should be nipped after all.

It very much depends on what kind of Influence the Hallow produces. A Hallow of Knock is probably a building where doors don't work right, or open into places they shouldn't, or which is inhabited by a Younger Sister. Meanwhile a Moth-Hallow is a place of whimsy and woods and at least a little bit of madness.

Good to know. Kinda was wondering, since AFAIK Cultist Simulator didn't have things like Hallows.

I have been wondering about how that could potentially be implemented. Going by the description of its Phylaxian ability:

It seems to be less of a 'do this to cure a disease' thing and more a preventative measure, of sorts. That said, diseases are generally less central/vital in CofD compared to the Cultist Simulator game. So I'm not entirely sure how to handle it.

Maybe something like the Shared Fate spell, where the wound/ailment just... happens on the deflected effigy or something. The other spirits have even weirder descriptions for that ability but the same effect, so there's less need to match the flavor and mech.

Or maybe just add "Treating wounds and diseases" as one of its Best At actions? I'd imagine it's not something widely known even among these occultists. Who'd even think about it!

So, you could handle it by just adding the Mansus to the existing CofD cosmology, but my personal approach would essentially be to substitute the Mansus for the Astral, and to remove the Underworld. The dead, if they linger, do so on Earth or pass into the House of the Sun, where they may linger, or pass the White Door to become Voiceless and rest amidst the Orchard of Lights, or make the Ascent of Knives into the service of the Sun-in-Rags. I think spirits are pretty compatible with a CultSim game - You'd probably want Lantern to see things in Twilight and Knock to breach the Gauntlet - but in general this isn't really something I'd want to run as a crossover with any of the major gamelines.

Oooh, that sounds nice. And avoiding crossover is fine too, though I'll probably spin it differently. But that's just me.

Regarding ritual sorcerers, I've been considering that, and I do somewhat like the idea that practitioners are natural ritual sorcerers, and can substitute Influences for Pillar points to some extent. On the other hand, it might be easier to just have a lot of closed rites have equivalents in rituals.

Influences as Pillar points actually makes a lot of sense; Sekhem is life energy, with "life" in the sense of experiences lived and emotions felt, right? Sounds like Influences!

[ajf115]

Good to know. Kinda was wondering, since AFAIK Cultist Simulator didn't have things like Hallows.

It doesn't, no, but I wanted a way for PCs to have a reasonably reliable source of low-level Influences without having to dream-quest for everything.

Maybe something like the Shared Fate spell, where the wound/ailment just... happens on the deflected effigy or something. The other spirits have even weirder descriptions for that ability but the same effect, so there's less need to match the flavor and mech.

Or maybe just add "Treating wounds and diseases" as one of its Best At actions? I'd imagine it's not something widely known even among these occultists. Who'd even think about it!

The latter does seem like a pretty good way to cut the Gordian knot. Though I might add something in there like 'Putting a lock of hair in its chest allows it to ignore the need for medical tools when treating you'.

Oooh, that sounds nice. And avoiding crossover is fine too, though I'll probably spin it differently. But that's just me.

Mind if I ask how you might spin it?

Influences as Pillar points actually makes a lot of sense; Sekhem is life energy, with "life" in the sense of experiences lived and emotions felt, right? Sounds like Influences!

I'll probably add a sidebar to that effect, then.

[Tessie]

Hmm. On one hand, I can see your point there, but on the other if it doesn't have magical Merits and the like, I can only really see Secret Histories as a 'dump Principle', as it were.

If it doesn't fit the structure of the other Principles and risk becoming a dump stat, maybe it's better to change how it is gained so that you can get dots in it without having to spend from the limited dots gained from Insight? I was thinking it could be a 1-5 dot Merit.

[ajf115]

One thing I'm debating adding to the thing is the ability to 'subvert' Influences like in the game - that is, take an Influence of one type and transform it into one of another, in a specific 'cycle' (Moth -> Lantern -> Forge -> Edge -> Winter -> Heart -> Grail -> Moth, and any can be subverted to Knock). I'm not sure whether or not I should, though.

From a functional standpoint subversion exists in the original mostly as a way to counter RNGsus being a bitch sometimes, but in a tabletop game A) you're not at the whim of RNG when it comes to what Influences you find and B) you're going to be playing with others, or at the very least with NPCs, and in those circumstances I was thinking it might be more interesting to have influences be non-fungible, but rather serving as a form of currency between practitioners. Say you happen across a Forge Influence, but you only know Grail magic. You can trade that Influence to a friend or acquaintance for help, or an Influence of theirs and so on.

The other reason I'm a little reluctant to include it is

On the other hand, there is still a certain element of 'I might need X while I have Y', or 'I have a source of X but I want Y', and subversion gives you a way to address those problems. Plus, I like the way that the ability to subvert one Influence into another implies that these things aren't totally separate.

[ajf115]

If it doesn't fit the structure of the other Principles and risk becoming a dump stat, maybe it's better to change how it is gained so that you can get dots in it without having to spend from the limited dots gained from Insight? I was thinking it could be a 1-5 dot Merit.

What would the Merit do? In the game, Secret Histories just represents knowledge of places of power or, well, the Histories. And I think that's better handled in CofD as just Occult.

[TerrorCooper]

I really like this. I like it a lot!

So, you could handle it by just adding the Mansus to the existing CofD cosmology, but my personal approach would essentially be to substitute the Mansus for the Astral, and to remove the Underworld. The dead, if they linger, do so on Earth or pass into the House of the Sun, where they may linger, or pass the White Door to become Voiceless and rest amidst the Orchard of Lights, or make the Ascent of Knives into the service of the Sun-in-Rags. I think spirits are pretty compatible with a CultSim game - You'd probably want Lantern to see things in Twilight and Knock to breach the Gauntlet - but in general this isn't really something I'd want to run as a crossover with any of the major gamelines.

I don’t mind. Though it would be interesting to see the stereotypes on these fellows that more ‘normal’ Occultists, Hunters and the various varieties of Supernaturals (be they Major (I.e. Werewolves), Minor (E.g. Ghouls) or Merit (Such as Stigmatics)) would hold, and vice versa. If I was a betting man (which I ain’t), I’d be putting my money that the various Major Supernaturals would have Stereotypes that could be summed up as a mixture of sheer WTF?!?!?!?!?! type confusion, and yellow-soiling levels of terror.

[ajf115]

I really like this. I like it a lot!

I don’t mind. Though it would be interesting to see the stereotypes on these fellows that more ‘normal’ Occultists, Hunters and the various varieties of Supernaturals (be they Major (I.e. Werewolves), Minor (E.g. Ghouls) or Merit (Such as Stigmatics)) would hold, and vice versa. If I was a betting man (which I ain’t), I’d be putting my money that the various Major Supernaturals would have Stereotypes that could be summed up as a mixture of sheer WTF?!?!?!?!?! type confusion, and yellow-soiling levels of terror.

It would be interesting. And depending on what Principles a given practitioner favors, they could certainly have interesting interactions with different supernatural types. For instance, vampirism and Grail have a lot in common, Moth lends itself to wild places and shapeshifting, and I wouldn't be surprised if werewolves and Moth-practitioners have a tendency to run into one another, while Knock lets you get into all kinds of interesting places you probably shouldn't be. Lantern and mages' obsessions probably result in them running into each other as well.

Apart from all that, you could potentially situate the Mansus as some kind of special location within the Astral, though that runs the risk of lessening the Hours to 'mere' extremely-powerful goetia.

And then there's the Worms.

[TerrorCooper]

It would be interesting. And depending on what Principles a given practitioner favors, they could certainly have interesting interactions with different supernatural types. For instance, vampirism and Grail have a lot in common, Moth lends itself to wild places and shapeshifting, and I wouldn't be surprised if werewolves and Moth-practitioners have a tendency to run into one another, while Knock lets you get into all kinds of interesting places you probably shouldn't be. Lantern and mages' obsessions probably result in them running into each other as well.

And considering the fact that any and all practitioner of the Invisible Arts with a sufficient amount of Insight can have an affinity with up to six different Principles, they’d probably be able to actively mind-screw other supernaturals, and maybe even successfully get away with it!

Apart from all that, you could potentially situate the Mansus as some kind of special location within the Astral, though that runs the risk of lessening the Hours to 'mere' extremely-powerful goetia.

Yeah, and that does NOT do them proper justice.

And then there's the Worms.

Yeah... *shudders*

[ajf115]

And considering the fact that any and all practitioner of the Invisible Arts with a sufficient amount of Insight can have an affinity with up to six different Principles, they’d probably be able to actively mind-screw other supernaturals, and maybe even successfully get away with it!

One thing about practitioners is that they aren't able to directly raise their traits above 5, but within the purview of their Principles they can get very scary quite quickly. An Edge-adept is likely to be quite the terrifying fighter, even before you add in Merits like Coat of Scars, for instance.

Yeah, and that does NOT do them proper justice.

That was basically my rationale for replacing the Astral, though you could potentially treat the Hours as beings not unlike the Aeons - beings that reside in the Astral but aren't from humanity, or even really from the world like the inhabitants of the Anima Mundi. In fact, you could potentially do something like situate the Wood and the Mansus at the 'heart' of the Astral - a point where the Glory (which, let's face it, has some big Supernal vibes) emanates into a kind of 'tree of life', and all the rest of the Astral is just the muddle that happens outside the Wood.

Yeah... *shudders*

Quite.

[TerrorCooper]

One thing about practitioners is that they aren't able to directly raise their traits above 5, but within the purview of their Principles they can get very scary quite quickly. An Edge-adept is likely to be quite the terrifying fighter, even before you add in Merits like Coat of Scars, for instance.

Whilst a Knock-adept is able to get just about anywhere, if they just try hard enough, and a Lantern-adept can uncover... pretty much anything, if they put their mind to it.

That was basically my rationale for replacing the Astral, though you could potentially treat the Hours as beings not unlike the Aeons - beings that reside in the Astral but aren't from humanity, or even really from the world like the inhabitants of the Anima Mundi. In fact, you could potentially do something like situate the Wood and the Mansus at the 'heart' of the Astral - a point where the Glory (which, let's face it, has some big Supernal vibes) emanates into a kind of 'tree of life', and all the rest of the Astral is just the muddle that happens outside the Wood.

Yeah, that could actually work! Of course, it’d naturally result in Mages, and other Supernaturals capable of accessing and traversing the Astral, occasionally finding themselves in the outermost borders of the Woods. Naturally, of course, they typically turn tail and make like a road runner that’s being chased by one of its predators at this point our of sheer pants-yellow-soiling terror. Which is perfectly understandable, of course.

Quite.

Eeeeyup.