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Updating Second Sight to GMC

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  • amechra
    I would personally cover Ghost Allies with the Retainer and True Friend merits.

    In fact, I'd vaguely follow the example set down by Ghoul Retainers, and give Ghost Retainers one Numina or dot of Influence at Retainer dots 1, 3, and 5, as well as 3 Manifestation effects. For any purpose that matters, they are Rank 2.

    If you want, you can restrict the merit to the 3 and 5 dot versions. I think the fact that they won't go too far from their Anchors, and can't break their Ban, balances it out.

    Alternatively, the 3-dot version gives you a Rank 1 Ghost that's "awake" when it's around you (so it is about as cognisant as a small child), while the 5-dot version gives you a Rank 2 Ghost.

    If I go that route, I'd probably have preselected Manifestation effects, and just have the 5-dot version act as a "boost" on top of the 3-dot version.

    Actually, heck, given that we have a unified system now, why not just make an Ephemeral Ally merit? That way, it can cover ghost "friends", a spirit watcher set to keep an eye on you by the local Uratha pack, and "guardian" Angels.

    I might just go with that route.

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  • Mr.F.I.X.
    Was going to make my own post but I may as well put it in this thread since it is related. An updated version of Ghost ally [WIP]

    (*** to *****) [still]
    -Generate the ghost as a minimal rank 2 ghost as per g.m.c. [rank 1 would not in my opinion work as it isn't as 'alive' per say]
    -has comparable points to spend as original but not at (***) rather at every +dot following.
    -The pc that is now the anchor can be aware of the ghost un-manifested as the option existed in the original but instead of being of equal point value it is considered a numina.

    Drawback(s) since arguably stronger
    -The pc is empathic to their ghost allies ban and bane and rolls resolve + composure when encountering either. If it is a ban on a success they can violate the ban but are uncomfortable doing so but if a failure they must abide by it (if dramatic even more so). If it is a bane on a success they are able to retain their composure but on a failure they receive an appropriate condition like shaken or spooked. For each dot above three this roll suffers a -1 (max -2).

    -The ghost is limited in how much essence per day (around 3-5) the pc can grant (essence granted because of the pc being an anchor not included) by remembering, recognizing etc as ghosts regain essence by standard.

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  • Dataweaver
    While I tend to agree, I don’t think this thread is the right place to discuss that. This thread is about converting Second Sight’s Merits to 2e.

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  • Maskah
    Gnosis in witch finders should be a default gutter magic system for 2E. Though it does need to be cleaned up a bit.

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  • Penta
    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Remember, if I left it out, it probably already exists as a GMC merit.
    It was late at night, so I forgot to check some of the Merits. Especially those in the Vampire spoiler. :P

    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Precognition: Any suggestions as to questions? I'm assuming that you'd ask some Yes/No questions to start off and then progress to the listed questions.
    I really don't have any good suggestions here. I would note explicitly that first a Yes/No question has to be asked to determine the vision, before one of the open questions can be asked. But it still feels weird to have part of the power that can only be accessed at two successes or more. Maybe allow those open questions at an Exceptional success? Or at three successes, but that doesn't really have mechanical precedent?

    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Psychic Empathy and Illusions: Come on dude, I left a note that I'm still working on those .
    I know. I just wanted to give a short comment on what I did with them.

    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Thanks for your feedback; any idea for Psychic Illusion/Psychic Invisibility/Psychic Empathy? (No, I'm not going to steal Blood-and-Smoke Nightmare 1 and Obfuscate 1, give them both Willpower costs, and then call them 3-dot merits. That'd be all kinds of lazy.)
    I'll see if I can think of something.

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  • amechra
    Could work.

    And I just want to say that I've given it some thought, and I'm going to leave Psychokinetic Immunity as-is. Sure, Electrokinesis means that you are essentially immune to power lines, but you can still be blasted with lightning (or other Electrokinetics).

    Realistically, the 2-dot version should make you "nearly" immune to your force; a Pyrokinetic feels a bit of a sting if they stick their hands in a campfire, a Cryokinetic should be able to walk around in mid-winter in shorts and flip-flops.

    The 4-dot version means that Pyrokinetics could stick their hands in molten lead without any real lasting damage, and the Cryokinetic could chill out (pun intended) on the South Pole. Naked.

    And you know what? I'm fine with that.

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  • Jesuncolo
    Amechra, for the death sight how about "you see ghosts, but they see you and they want you to help them"

    EDIT: LOL for lucid dreaming, well...I'm a lucid dreamer, but that's not that easy. Most of the time I'm not aware I'm dreaming, as well as most lucid dreamers I know. Realizing you are dreaming takes practice, and it's not exactly automatic. Even natural lucid dreamers don't dream lucidly every time, usually it happes up to once a week, save for exceptional cases.
    It's not supernatural at all, but whatever. For the sake of storytelling we could pretend it's automatic when relevant.
    Last edited by Jesuncolo; 11-09-2014, 02:45 AM.

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  • amechra
    Oh, you can still use certain Supernatural merits, even with Psychic Void blocking you from spending Willpower.

    Off the top of my head, they would be able to use the City Walking, Cursed, Medium, Mind of a Madman, Omen Sensitivity, Thief of Fate, and Unseen Sense merits, all of which are supernatural in a "subtle" way (well, other than City Walking and Medium; Medium involves hearing dead people, who can be mistaken for hallucinations, while City Walking is a bit hard to justify)

    Of those, half of them have a dice roll, and half don't. Thief of Fate is an interesting one because the Anti-ESPer wouldn't be able to turn it off; everyone they touch gets bad luck (which, of course, they don't believe in.)

    Plus, there are a few Supernatural merits who activate for free as a Drawback; imagine a Psychic Void who is "haunted by poltergeists" (Telekinesis). Because he does believe in ghosts, but he emphatically doesn't believe in psychic powers, because those are just silly. Or an archeologist who gets some incredibly vivid visions of old battle fields (Psychometry), but attributes them to his overly-active imagination.

    While I do think it's a fine house-rule to make them reduce any Activation roll for Supernatural merits to a chance die, I do think it cuts off some possible character ideas. Because while the default is simply a sceptic whose latent psychic powers enforce their scepticism on the outside world, there are a few different ways you could swing it.

    Remember, if I left it out, it probably already exists as a GMC merit.


    Astral Projection: I can modify the drawback to include a difficulty finding your way back. Which reminds me; I had my players enter the dream of an outer horror a few sessions back, and I came up with a simple system for them to "wake up" - either spend 1 Willpower, or succeed on a Resolve + Composure roll. I might end up using that general idea with "getting back" to your body.

    Dowsing: Dowsing IRL is kinda a short-ranged thing; you detect if you are over water, not that the water's 10 miles thataway (as far as I recall, at least).

    Dream Travel: Guilty as charged; my intent was that you didn't have to play it as a Scene (to avoid the Decker problem.)

    Postcognition: The current Psychometry covers what Postcognition did, since you can use it on a scene instead of just an object.

    Precognition: Any suggestions as to questions? I'm assuming that you'd ask some Yes/No questions to start off and then progress to the listed questions.


    Automatic Writing: in the Ordo Dracul spoiler. Look on the 5th page of the doc.

    Deathsight: I... actually forgot that the GMC Medium merit doesn't let you see Ghosts in Twilight. I might have to attend to that...


    Psychic Healing: See the Lay On Hands merit in the Ordo Dracul spoiler.

    Psychokinetic Immunity: I considered the armor route... would 3/0 Armor against your force work for the 2-dot?


    Animal Empathy: I guess I did beef it up a little too much.

    Animal Rapport: I basically let people communicate nonverbally with people that share their language with a roll anyway (charades!), so that's why I left that out.

    Induce Trauma: Actually (at least at my table) covers both Mind Breaker and Mind Control; I use a... somewhat extended list of Breaking Point conditions, including Indoctrinated. If you want a less brutal (and sadistic) form of mental influence, may I suggest Mind Trick?

    Mind Reading: The GMC Telepathy merit covers this.

    Psychic Empathy and Illusions: Come on dude, I left a note that I'm still working on those .

    Psychic Scream: Yeah, I did weaken it, but I did so to put it on par with using Telekinesis to attack (Psychic Scream is a bit better than using Telekinesis as a raw attack simply because the versatility of dumping stuff like Insane or Insensate on people as an Exceptional Success) - in fact, I used the mechanics for GMC Telekinesis as my model. In retrospect, Telekinesis' main benefit is the scene-length "move stuff around with your MIND", and Psychic Scream is a straight-out attack, so I might put the concentration option back in.

    All Three of the Telepathics: GMC Telepathy pretty much covers them; I could maybe do Telepathic Rapport as separate merit that removes the range limitation on Telepathy with regards to people you form a rapport for, but otherwise, straight-up Telepathy covers all three of them (for most intents and purposes.)

    Thanks for your feedback; any idea for Psychic Illusion/Psychic Invisibility/Psychic Empathy? (No, I'm not going to steal Blood-and-Smoke Nightmare 1 and Obfuscate 1, give them both Willpower costs, and then call them 3-dot merits. That'd be all kinds of lazy.)

    EDIT: I just threw a preliminary Deathsight up. I might end up dialing it back to a 2-dot Merit that just lets you see Ghosts.
    Last edited by amechra; 11-09-2014, 12:09 AM.

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  • Penta
    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Many of the new Supernatural merits don't have a roll to activate; however, most of the active ones have a WP cost. So blocking WP instead of forcing a chance die is more generally effective. Notice that Psychic Void doesn't stop you from taking other Supernatural merits, which I did because it gave me a "Banishers" vibe.
    Even then, I like the chance die for the story potential. In my games I would probably rule that it reduces dice pools to a chance die, and blocks psychic powers without a dice pool outright.

    Also, why does Psychic Void allow you to buy Supernatural Merits, if you are not allowed to use them? In my opinion this is just a waste of experience points. Even if you want to simulate the drawbacks of certain psychic powers (such as psychokinesis) I would rather simulate that with a permanent Condition.

    Originally posted by amechra View Post
    Any other merits you feel that I changed more than they merited? I'm kinda curious to see if that matches up with my own misgivings about some of these.
    Comments from my own (pre-GMC) houserules are in italics.

    ESP Merits:

    Astral Projection: You removed the drawback where a successful Wits + Composure roll is necessary to return to your body.

    Dowsing: Your version doesn't allow you to find a substance that isn't in your direct surroundings. I think that the orignal rules with the Willpower cost and Wits + Composure roll make more sense. [Houserule note: In my houserules Dowsing is the • version of Clairvoyance, as it doesn't give all that much.]

    Dream Travel: You removed the dream combat stuff, but I agree that those rules were a mess. Also, I understand that you wanted to give the merit some more tangible benefits, as the original was very freeform. But still, if you want to run the dream as a scene, I prefer just playing out the dream, possibly making multiple rolls in the interaction with dream characters and the dreamer. [Houserule note: I have a work in progress version where this merit uses the Dream rules from Thaumaturgy]

    Postcognition: Does not exist anymore. Maybe you liked psychometry more?

    Precognition: No real change, except that you wanted to give some extra possible questions. My only problem is that I mostly narrate the vision based on the yes/no questions, while your extra questions require narrating the vision first, because they only make sense after the vision.

    Mediumist Merits:

    Automatic Writing: Missing. [Houserule note: I folded this into Channeling ••• as the •• version, to make it cheaper.]

    Deathsight: Missing. [Houserule note: I removed the Willpower cost for communication.]

    Psychokinetic Merits:

    Plant Empathy: This is a good way to decouple it from biokinesis, if you want that.

    Psychic Healing: Missing. [Houserule note: I replaced most of the rules by those of the Thaumaturgy version.]

    Psychokinetic Immunity: Can you use this to downgrade bashing to nothing? There would be no reason ever to buy Electrokinetic Immunity ••••, as •• would already block all damage. Of course, you can never totally balance it between damage sources, but I would still let the •• version give you armor against the element, and •••• version make you immune. As long as it is not your bane, there is not real diffence between downgrading twice or immunity anyway.

    Telepathic Merits:

    Animal Empathy: Why remove the ••• version that applies to all animals? Why inflict the loyalty vice, if Bonded already makes the animal prone to helping you? Currently your version almost gives you the Animal Rapport Merit for free each time you use it. To reflect the impermanence of the original, I wouldn't let it inflict Bonded (or if it does, only on a time limit). Also, I wouldn't let the player communicate with the animal as if they share a language. Sensing a general impression would be enough. Also, I like that the original lets you circumvent the Willpower cost if you actually take time to gain rapport with the animal. Finally, I would reinstate the dice roll for animals you have no rapport with, because otherwise this merit makes it entirely too easy to avoid hostile animals.

    Animal Rapport: I would allow a Wits + Animal Ken roll to communicate non-verbally. [Houserule note: I already allow this in my houserules, instead of having to spend Willpower to do this. Also I agree with the cost of ••.]

    Induce Trauma: Inflicting either Conditions based on Derangements, Willpower damage or Bashing damage I could understand, but inflicting Integrity Breaking points is truly heinous. I do not actually have a problem with this power and I guess it was based on Mind Breaker. [Houserule note: In my houserules Mindbreaker is actually the •••• ability of the ••••• Mind Control.]

    Mind Control: Missing.

    Mind Reading: Missing.

    Psychic Emathy: Still missing. [Houserule note: I use it as written, but with the dot costs reduced by one.]

    Psychic Illusions: Still missing. [Houserule note: I folded Psychic Invisibility into Psychic Illusions as the •••• version.]

    Psychic Scream: I assume this is your version of Mental Blast? You weakened it by removing the concentration option. Maybe allow the concentration option as a ••••• version? But this is not really necessary.

    Telepathic Communication: Missing. [Houserule note: I folded this merit into Though Projection, for no extra cost.]

    Telepathic Rapport: Missing. [Houserule note: I reduced the cost to ••.]

    Thought Projection: Missing. [Houserule note: I allow this power to establish a two way connection.]

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  • Reighnhell
    I am watching this with interest. I have been mulling over updating Second Sight for my own games and look forward to seeing what you come up with.

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  • amechra
    Many of the new Supernatural merits don't have a roll to activate; however, most of the active ones have a WP cost. So blocking WP instead of forcing a chance die is more generally effective. Notice that Psychic Void doesn't stop you from taking other Supernatural merits, which I did because it gave me a "Banishers" vibe.

    Any other merits you feel that I changed more than they merited? I'm kinda curious to see if that matches up with my own misgivings about some of these.

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  • Penta
    I can't help but notice that you also changed some of the merits that didn't really need any changes under the new system. Can you post the rationale for your changes? For example, I understand why you changed the drawback of the Anti-Psi Merit, but I actually liked that the original Merit reduced all psychic powers to a chance die, instead of blocking them outright.

    Porting these merits is also still on my to do list, and getting a better idea of why people think things should change can help with that.

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  • amechra
    Reserved for Things That Should Not Be and the cults that love them.

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  • amechra
    Reserved for Thaumaturgy

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  • amechra
    started a topic Updating Second Sight to GMC

    Updating Second Sight to GMC

    Hey everyone, this is an update of the Merits from Second Sight to GMC; I eventually hope to convert every Merit in the book to GMC, but that will come later.

    Anyway, any Merit that I don't include here already exists in GMC in some form; for example, many of the Mediumist Merits are covered, as well as a good deal of Psychokinesis. Additionally, all of these Merits are Mortal Only.

    So, without further ado...

    ESP Merits
    Astral Projection (•••)
    Prerequisite: Clairvoyance
    Effect: Whenever you use the Clairvoyance merit, you may choose to project your consciousness along with your senses. If you do so, you may use any of your other Supernatural merits as if you were physically at the scene, and may speak to anyone there who possesses the Medium merit. You may reflexively spend 1 Willpower to return your consciousness to your body.
    Drawback: While you are projecting your consciousness, you are entirely unaware of anything that happens to or around your body short of actual bodily harm; you are aware whenever your body takes an amount of Bashing damage that exceeds your Stamina, or if you take any amount of Lethal or Aggravated damage.

    Dowsing (•)
    Dowsing functions exactly as the Unseen Senses merit, except that it applies to a specific substance rather than to a type of Supernatural, and it requires the use of some kind of dowsing tool (such as a dowsing rod or a pendulum.)

    Dream Travel (••• or •••••)
    Effect: Dream travel is the psychic ability to project yourself into the dreams of others; it encompasses everything from being a dream voyeur to actively meddling with another person's dream.
    With the 3-dot version of this Merit, you may spend 1 willpower to project your mind into the dreams of anyone you are touching. You may observe their dream, and may interact with any part of their dream as if you were physically there; you do not suffer any damage from mundane features of their dream. Once you've projected yourself into someone's dream, you may make a single social maneuver or activate a single Supernatural merit that would target or affect their mind - if you do so, you gain a +2 bonus on any roll involved, and achieve an Exceptional Success on 3 successes instead of 5.
    If you have the 5-dot version of the merit, you may project your mind into the dreams of anyone you spoke with the day before.
    Using this merit takes several hours, and so you can only use it once per night.
    Drawback: This Merit is mentally strenuous, and as such you don't gain Willpower for any rest you get that night. Worse, if the dreamer was prevented from recovering Willpower from their rest that night, you lose a point of Willpower as a side effect of their fatigue. And, of course, the dreamer remembers that you were a part of their dream.

    Precognition (•••)
    Effect: Precognition is the psychic ability to see the future. Now, the human mind is incapable of processing the nigh-infinite branching paths created by the forward march of time, so the "art" of precognition is imprecise. Namely, it usually shows either the best possible future, the worst possible future, or the most likely future, with no real way of determining which it was.
    Spend a willpower point to activate Precognition; the successes scored on a Wits + Occult roll determine the clarity of the visions. For each success, you may ask the ST a single yes/no question, or a single question from the following list. If the question regards a person you've never met before, the ST should feel free to simply give a description; in addition, the ST is not obligated to answer any question regarding which possible future the vision belongs to.
    • When exactly will this happen?
    • What would I have to do to bring this event about?
    • What would I have to do to prevent this event from happening?
    • What will be the strongest emotion in this scene?
    • Am I missing something in this scene?

    Suggested Modifiers: Event happens more than week from now (-1), event happens more than two weeks from now (-2), event happens more than a month from now (-3), event happens more than a year from now (-4), event happens more than a decade from now (-5).
    Drawback: Other than the inaccuracy with regards to which future they see, the Storyteller may impose a Precognition vision once per story, showing some future of their choice. This vision does not require a willpower point or a roll to activate. The Storyteller may give any information they wish, and may give you a Condition related to the scene they showed you.

    Mediumist Merits
    Reserved for Cayce Channeling, Past Life Channeling, and Spirit Channeling.

    Death Sight (•••)
    You can see the dead, regardless of how close they are to this world.
    You may see Ghosts in Twilight, registering them as diaphanous, hazy spectres tinted the colors of their death's emotions. Additionally, you may see Underworld Gates regardless of whether they are open or closed.
    Drawback: Ghosts are instinctually aware that you can see them, and they want you to help them clear up their unfinished business. Ghosts always consider you to be an Anchor, regardless of whether or not you have any connection to their past life.

    Psychokinetic Merits
    Plant Empathy (• - •••)
    Effect: You have a supernatural green thumb; add your dots in this Merit to any rolls you make to tend to or cultivate plants. In addition, any plants under your care grow (Plant Empathy + 1) times faster than they would otherwise.

    Psychic Vampirism: See this minor template right here.

    Psychokinetic Immunity (•• or ••••)
    Prerequisite: Psychokinesis •••
    Effect: You have learned to apply your power over your force to defensive applications. You may downgrade any damage you would take from your force one step. If you have the 4-dot version of this Merit, you may spend 1 wp to downgrade any damage you would take from your force by an additional step for the rest of the scene.
    Drawback: Your resistance does not apply to damage that would be dealt as part of a supernatural Bane; whether you've been cursed or have been Claimed by a spirit whose bane involves your force, that supernatural weakness bypasses your protection entirely.

    And a little "screw you" to all you Vampire players (like me) who were going to buy this with the Coil of Zirnitra. Neener neener neener. :P.

    Telepathic Merits
    Animal Empathy (•• or ••••)
    Effect: You have a deep empathic connection to animals; with the 2-dot version of this Merit, this Merit only applies to a single category of animals, while the 4-dot version applies to all animals.
    You may communicate with animals as if you shared a language; this, in turn, grants you the following:
    • Whenever you are investigating a scene where an animal was present, you may substitute your Animal Ken skill for your Investigate skill.
    • You may engage in Social Maneuvering with animals, using Animal Ken as your social skill. You may consider meeting an animal's needs as fulfilling both its Vice and one of its Aspirations for the purposes of Social Maneuvering.
    • You may treat groups of animals as if they were human social groups for the purposes of purchasing Merits; for example, an Animal Empath could have Allies(Rocky Mountain wolf pack), Contacts(Lions at the San Francisco Zoo), or Mentor(Sacred rats of Karni Mata temple).

    Drawback: Being so close to a particular type of animal has its downsides; namely, you treat that type of animal as if they were human beings for the purposes of Breaking Points. If you have Animal Empathy (Bovines), you can't help but see eating steak as cannibalism, and wearing leather would just be depraved.

    Animal Possession (?)
    I am currently working on this one.

    Animal Rapport (••)
    Effect: You have an intense bond with a single animal; choose that animal upon taking this Merit.
    You gain the Bonded condition with regards to that animal, and may speak with it as if you shared a language. In addition, that animal's Intelligence permanently increases by 1. You may roll Wits + Animal Ken to communicate non-verbally with the animal you chose with this Merit.

    Induce Trauma (•••)
    Effect: You have the ability to break another characters will, splintering them under the terrible force of your potent mind.
    Spend one willpower, and then roll Manipulation + Persuasion - the victim's Resolve; if you achieved a Success, your victim immediately suffers the effects of failing a Breaking Point roll, and you may choose which Condition they gain from the experience. If you get an Exceptional Success, they instead suffer the effects of getting a Dramatic Failure on a Breaking Point roll; you still get to choose which Condition they gain.
    This Merit may only be used once per scene on a given character; their psyches need time to mend.
    Drawback: Using this ability is an incredibly heinous act, demonstrating a deep sadism and contempt for your fellow man. Simply using this Merit is a Breaking Point at -3; if you get a success on your Manipulation + Persuasion roll, it is instead a Breaking Point at -5.

    Psychic Empathy, Psychic Illusion, and Psychic Invisibility
    I am still working on these.

    Psychic Scream (•••)
    Effect: You may lash out with a burst of psychic static, a blistering half-memory of pain and panic.
    You may spend 1 Willpower to lash out; you deal Bashing damage equal to your successes on a Presence + Intimidate - Stamina roll, ignoring both Armor and Defense, as your psychic blast ruptures capillaries and causes nosebleeds. If you get an Exceptional Success on your roll, you may give the other character an appropriate Personal Tilt, as their bodies develop psychosomatic injuries.

    Other New Merits
    Lucid Dreaming (•)
    Effect: You are automatically aware of whether or not you are dreaming, as well as whether or not another character is projecting themselves into your dream. If another character is projecting themselves into your dream, you may forgo recovering Willpower that night to attack them psychically, using the system given by the Psychic Scream merit; doing so immediately removes that character from your dreams.

    Psychic Void (•••)
    Effect: Your overwhelming scepticism with regards to the supernatural masks your innate psychic talent. No character in the same scene as you may spend Willpower to activate a Supernatural merit. In addition, you are immune to the effects of Dream Travel and Thief of Fate.
    Drawback: 'No character' includes you; additionally, any time you would gain the Spooked condition, you instead gain the Denial condition.

    I don't really have any inspiration for the other "non-Psychic merits from that chapter at the moment. Psychic Resistance is just Indomitable, though.
    Last edited by amechra; 11-10-2014, 12:49 AM.