Ancients Awaken- the Old Ones Chronicles (Changing Breeds. Discussion, Brainstorming)

[Gator the Unread]

I could agree with this logic, as both Perceptions and Natural Weapons are much smaller in scope than Attributes Modifiers.

Hooray! Consensus! For now...

So always would War Beast form get's +1 to all Physical Attributes? I'm not sure I agree with this. Once again I making point of were mouses and tortoise-blooded. This kind beings screams for if not negative, at least non existing Physical Modifiers.

I'm not in camp of "it should be more than 6 Form Points", rather "they should be parallel to Uratha". Werewolves got enough bonuses and favors in all itself, they stats can be made as balance factor for other groups.

Yes. No. Wait. Um...maaaybe? I can't justify "no negatives, ever". I am trying to say something like...negative traits should be used sparingly. And I don't think bears qualify for them. Land TItans, maybe. Turtles, yes. Mice...in breed form, yes.

Ugh. Brain melting.

First, you must understand that we aren't really working with Breads but with Species. Breeds are "famillies" of similiar shifters, but the Nahual is giving humans his powers. Not all Land Titans are Massive, not all Bastet are Killer Dexterous. Most of Species in Breed are, but not all. Those Inborn Aspects should be made on 1 on 1 basis, like with Kiths in Changling.

More brain melting. I'm using the wrong terms, again.

What the hell, exactly, is the Idigam Chronicles? It appears to be Blood & Smoke for Werewolf the Forsaken. Is that right? If that is the case...crap, are we trying to adapt a pair of books to something still being built? That kinda feels like trying to skin a live tiger, while its still in the womb, of an angry she-bear.

You mean Ursara, I assume? The werebears aren't werewolves.

OH, [email protected]#ing #$%$ @#$% @#$%. I am not any good with these name things today. I need a cheat sheet.

Brain completely melted. I'll hopefully post something useful tomorrow.

[wyrdhamster]

Hooray! Consensus! For now...

I would probably point that Prception +2 bonus or Natural Weapons +2L should be 1 Form Point. Lower thn that should be given logiclly, as freeby, probably.

What the hell, exactly, is the Idigam Chronicles? It appears to be Blood & Smoke for Werewolf the Forsaken. Is that right? If that is the case...crap, are we trying to adapt a pair of books to something still being built? That kinda feels like trying to skin a live tiger, while its still in the womb, of an angry she-bear.

Yes, Idigam Chronicles is second edition of Werewolf, like Blood & Smoke is for Vampire and yes, it's still in writing. But most of it's mechanics won't totally change. Developers stated obviously that stats for Forms of Uratha will be the same, only that Natural Armor 1/1 will be take away in favor of Defense working against firearms. I could see Land Titans to have Aspect giving them Armor 1/1, but rest of shifter probably will favor ( ) Defense solution. And IC in progress is reason why LostLight is silent lately. But I think we should thought about changes being made, so fanbook could come out rather quick after Idigam Chronicles.

[Gator the Unread]

Side track moment:

With me getting all confused with the various names, I went back and read the posts, and looked up some of this Idigam Chronicles madness (call so because I can't wrap my head around a few bits). So I can be on the on the same sheet of music as everyone else, here are things as I understand them, using comparisons that I do understand (I am leaning heavily on Lostlight, for this):

Regency is something you join, like a Tribe from W:tF or Convent from V:tR. Yes, I understand that most wolves as born into a tribe, but you can change it later. At some point, the wolf chose to stay with her tribe, even if she wasn't aware she made that choice.

Accord is similar to Auspice. It maybe or may not be a birth related facet, and is strongly tied to the shifter's personality.

Nahual is the...its what kind of animal you came from. Right now, I am seeing it as a really broad category, like "Land Titan" or "Bastet". There is no comparison that I can draw between other systems I am familiar with (I don't know C:tL)

Breed would be something made up all of these. I can't explain except for an example: I am playing a Bastet, who has a heart-ripper accord (the hunter, warrior, full moon style auspice), of an especially aggressive Regency. That translates into me playing a Rajanya (were tiger).

This is great in the way it makes things simple: no stating up 51 different "breeds" You make 5 Regencies, with 5 Accords, and 5 Nahual*, and you get 125 different combinations. Awesome. Plus, since Regencies can be treated as simple social constructs (you might be able to be born outside any Regency), you can ignore those easily. I hope.

This also sucks because...I don't like it. Because in the project I am making, for my little group, I want particular were-creatures, not broad groups. I realize what I would do if I was I making a game for the masses. But its not what I would do if I was making a game for Gator the Unread.

Also, if this is project is suppose to work with the Idigam Chronicles...stating out each...species? of were-beast is nearly pointless; each of specific type of were-beast will be a combination of Regency, Accord, and Nahual. It will be just a matter of making each combination work.

*Nahual could be represented by a selection of merit like traits, purchased with a pool of points, making this number much, much higher than 5.

[FallenEco]

Looking at it, Nahual would be a Seeming in C:tL terms.

I can try for the rest but it's a little tricky...

Regencies, as the social splat default to the Courts pre-GMC, though your description makes me feel that Entitlements would be a better fit. In Werewolf terminology, they'd be Lodges.

Accord comes closest to Kith, amongst the Lost.

Breed appears to be the short-hand description for the character's design. Rajanya instead of "Rahu Blood Talon of the Willow Branch" or "Malkavian Venture Ordo Dracul".
Is that about the gist

[wyrdhamster]

Regency is something you join, like a Tribe from W:tF or Convent from V:tR. Yes, I understand that most wolves as born into a tribe, but you can change it later. At some point, the wolf chose to stay with her tribe, even if she wasn't aware she made that choice.

Accord is similar to Auspice. It maybe or may not be a birth related facet, and is strongly tied to the shifter's personality.

Nahual is the...its what kind of animal you came from. Right now, I am seeing it as a really broad category, like "Land Titan" or "Bastet". There is no comparison that I can draw between other systems I am familiar with (I don't know C:tL)

Breed would be something made up all of these. I can't explain except for an example: I am playing a Bastet, who has a heart-ripper accord (the hunter, warrior, full moon style auspice), of an especially aggressive Regency. That translates into me playing a Rajanya (were tiger).

Which is LostLight idea. I propose to stick more to original rules and make Species/Nahual as Kiths in Changling, Breeds as Seeming-like broad archetypes. Accords would be like Promethean's Refinements, in that character choose those "lifestyles" it for time being - which also was stated in original Changing Breeds that could be changed with next smaller Storm/ First Change and is suitable on Evolution theme of fanbook proposed. Regencies would be typical Z-Splat, where mainly one Breed is foundation of Regency - like Bastets can join Corleone Regency. I would also made option for specific Accord to join - Corleone Regency would also be open for Heart-Rippers Accord, with it all mafia feel. This worked in Changling and Promethean, why wouldn't it work for second edition of Changing Breeds?

This is great in the way it makes things simple: no stating up 51 different "breeds" You make 5 Regencies, with 5 Accords, and 5 Nahual*, and you get 125 different combinations. Awesome. Plus, since Regencies can be treated as simple social constructs (you might be able to be born outside any Regency), you can ignore those easily. I hope.

Or you could propose rules on making yourself the Nahual, use Breeds from original book as backgrounds example, make some typical Species for start, and make 5 example Regencies that could be more added later.

Players don't need 125 combination. They need or 25 ( 5*5 ) * ?, in what ? is number of Z-Splats Storyteller approve. Or they need ?*5*?, like in Changling, to make settings even more fantastic, or just varies.

Also, if this is project is suppose to work with the Idigam Chronicles...stating out each...species? of were-beast is nearly pointless; each of specific type of were-beast will be a combination of Regency, Accord, and Nahual. It will be just a matter of making each combination work.

I think my model would work with that, in which you as ST approve players made Nahual for game, with some made examples.

[Gator the Unread]

Which is LostLight idea. I propose to stick more to original rules and make Species/Nahual as Kiths in Changling, Breeds as Seeming-like broad archetypes. Accords would be like Promethean's Refinements, in that character choose those "lifestyles" it for time being - which also was stated in original Changing Breeds that could be changed with next smaller Storm/ First Change and is suitable on Evolution theme of fanbook proposed. Regencies would be typical Z-Splat, where mainly one Breed is foundation of Regency - like Bastets can join Corleone Regency. I would also made option for specific Accord to join - Corleone Regency would also be open for Heart-Rippers Accord, with it all mafia feel. This worked in Changling and Promethean, why wouldn't it work for second edition of Changing Breeds?

How about this, just to make my life easier: this is your project, so what do you want to call...all this stuff?
More specifically

• what is the name of shapeshifters are in the Changing Breeds (nWoD) book? Basically, the name one would call a shapeshifter before anything else besides it was an animal based shapeshifter?
• what are you calling the groups (such as Land Titans, Royal Apes, and Spinner Kin)?
• what do you call the individual entries under those groups, i.e. Storm Bears are a what of Ursara?
• are you sticking with accords and are they accords from the book (Den-Ward, root-weaver, etc)?
• do you have any Regencies in mind, and if so, would they have any real impact on translating the Changing Breeds (nWoD) book into usefulness?

My brain got a lot less melty when it dawned on me this wasn't my project. I feel I can be more useful, now, or helping you reach your goals.

[wyrdhamster]

How about this, just to make my life easier: this is your project, so what do you want to call...all this stuff?

It's LostLight project, I only pointed my thoughts and remark that there could be better way to model shifters society, more in terms of his chosen theme and original Changing Breeds. But here are my more thoughts.

what is the name of shapeshifters are in the Changing Breeds (nWoD) book? Basically, the name one would call a shapeshifter before anything else besides it was an animal based shapeshifter?

Like ferals, werebeasts or beast-blooded? Terms described in Changing Breeds Lexicon?

what are you calling the groups (such as Land Titans, Royal Apes, and Spinner Kin)?

Breeds, as hey are called in CB book. They would be a more loosly working as Seemings in Changling.

what do you call the individual entries under those groups, i.e. Storm Bears are a what of Ursara?

As the whole they are Species, also from CB. Each shifters animal soul is described also as Nahual - if you are werebear, your Nahual is bear. Species would work as Kiths in Changling. Really, they work this way in original CB, all along.

are you sticking with accords and are they accords from the book (Den-Ward, root-weaver, etc)?

Yes, I would use that Accords. They have in setting senses, they fit to the Evolution theme chosen and are cool. Only I would mark I would see them more as Refinements in Promethean. They are "lifestyles" feral is now leading, not set in stone group. Ananasi werespider can start as Root-Waver, but could later in game change his life enough, that Heart-Ripper is more fitting. He assume new role, making peace with both his human and animal side on this, on the events of Storm - ferals equivalent to the First Change events of Uratha.

do you have any Regencies in mind, and if so, would they have any real impact on translating the Changing Breeds (nWoD) book into usefulness?

Changing Breeds mark those Regencies:
Bandaris, Chandra, Chu, Corleone, Hart, Lhamo, Mbube, Natolo, Rothburg, Sangrief, Toranaga, Vikarnes, Zafarani and Zhî.

We know from book that Corleone are family of European white lions. And Zhi are dynasty of werespiders.

In my idea, we open those "families" for all members of the Breed, not only Species, that correspond to concept. If Regency agree, even fitting other werebeast can join, if they have suitable Accord. All Regencies, as all ferals, want to "reinvent" themselves to modern times, those groups just have more experience.

For example, when I hear Corleone, I have in mind mafia of big cats from Italy. They are lead by white lions as the capo di tutti capi, but other cats can join "the Family". Some even Heart-Rippers of other Breeds join Corleone, with they need to conquer, shedding blood, and doing bad things as Big Bad Wolf. It's Cosa Nostra - Our Thing - and shapeshifters best get it. Men thinks about bisness, beastblooded knows that the "thing' is to shed human skin, or some lives in the way.

Zhi, on contrast, are China Root-Wavers werespiders. Their silk industry makes them businessmen and women, selling silk for highest bidder. Or it was in the past. Now they hold in they many legs grip almost whole Orient. They employ even other Root-Wavers in they "corporation", so they would dominate mankind once more, only now in suites and smiles. And they want you for they next endevour...

I think it's suitable idea for Z-Splat of game about animals in humans skins evolution.