Siren: The Surfacing (nWoD Abandoned Fangame Resurrection)

[Yads Dom]

Heh, wasn't alone in the Time aspect. But I like the place we are, and I find what Reaper suggested fitting with what we were working on, Nice!

Do Banshee count as Siren?
I say yes. Banshees could be either part of a Rework in the Inherent Axis or, as Saulotthe said, they could be a minor splat of Sirens, Humans affected by the Deluge, prophecies and such. As I said in a post earlier I thought that maybe if the Inherent Axis represented Aspects of where the Siren Drowned in the Deluge, maybe we could work diferente aspects of diferente mythologies (Harpy-like Sirens Drowned in the surface, near the top of the highest mountains that now are nothing but tips of rocks above the water. So diferente mythologies could be embraced in diferente axis. Don't know, I'm not truly fond of this Idea, but maybe you guys can work something out of this.

[Reaper Verse]

Do Banshees count as Sirens? - I believe that Banshees would/should be a subsplat to Sirens, like Ghouls are to Vampires. They can hear the Song and manipulate it to a small extent, but not to the grand extent that Sirens do. Their wailing could be attributed to some form of night terrors or something a Banshee suffers when a negative event happens in man or nature, they get these (very vague might I add) prophecies of doom from their connection to the Deluge.

I can definitely see Ghoul-types or even Blood Doll-types that were driven mad by the Song. Maybe they see the world as a mixture of reality and the Deluge simultaneously and they are incredibly sensitive to the misdeeds of humanity. They live in constant terror and pain and can only get respite by calling out the death of another.

Do the half-bird creatures that were Greek Sirens count as Sirens? - I feel the need to play on this is present, but I don't have any ideas. The closest I get is an inspiration. In Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, before Hyrule was flooded the Zoras (fish people) went to the top of a mountain and they instead transformed into a race of bird people known as the Rito. Very tribal like and even acting as messenger (in the form of mailmen that is, easy to traverse the sea by flying over it).

Ironically, I am a gamer and I am not necessarily familiar with the Legend of Zelda series, but the Zora/Rito connection is incredibly brilliant. I know a Supernatural episode that features a sea-creature-esque siren that enchants men into killing or destroying the thing that they love most. I believe most incarnations of Harpies that also have them lure their prey using their voice would work as well. Both The Odyssey and Jason and the Argonauts include sirens as bird women who lure ships into jagged rocks and feast upon the sailors on board. There's also Talon from Static Shock who was mutated by the Big Bang to look like a harpy and has a sonic scream.

Do they get mentioned? Are they subsets of Sirens that are now completely different? - On one hand, I feel this could be stepping on Werewolf's/Changing Breeds toes. On another, I think it's fine. I think that it could be possible for Sirens of that nature to look like other kinds of marine life (especially the Freshwater Ocean, because those are mainly inland ponds/rivers), but then the only problem becomes "how will the Deluge look to them"? The Deluge looking like a flooded world to Sirens. It would mean that at least as a whole, the birds/insects that live around water that Sirens could get features from would need to be capable of swimming underwater, if nothing else and even for a short time if it comes down to it.

I think that fleshing out the visuals of The Deluge would be something. Like, because the mermaid-Sirens are entirely fish-like, perhaps they see The Deluge as a flooded world but from the open waters, never having to weave through the submerged canyons and the roots of great trees. In Japan, there is a creature called the sazae-oni which are demons of sea snails that would entice sailors to have sex with them only to cut off their testicles when they were done. Perhaps these "mollusk-Sirens" are closer to the bottom of the flooded world and do not see the world as much as the mermaid-Sirens. And the more mammalian Sirens based of of the Selkie (human-looking creatures that become seals by wearing a special skin) are found closer to the surface of The Deluge, unable to sink deep enough in the water before having to breach the surface while the harpy-Sirens are firmly above the surface and rest on the remains of the solid earth.

As a side-note, I've noticed that a lot of the morals behind the folklore of river people/mermaids/sirens is a warning not to be entranced by beauty. Would "do not disturb the beauty of the natural world" also work as one of the themes for Siren?

[SaulottheGentle]

I can definitely see Ghoul-types or even Blood Doll-types that were driven mad by the Song. Maybe they see the world as a mixture of reality and the Deluge simultaneously and they are incredibly sensitive to the misdeeds of humanity. They live in constant terror and pain and can only get respite by calling out the death of another.

IIRC, on the forum a question was asked that there should be two subsplats to things. Like the Ghoul and Blood doll types like you said. What if the Ghoul Type are Banshees, and the Blood Doll type are called "The Mute"? People who resist the call out of fear of it, but the extra breath they have in their system makes them easy feeding targets for Sirens?

Ironically, I am a gamer and I am not necessarily familiar with the Legend of Zelda series, but the Zora/Rito connection is incredibly brilliant. I know a Supernatural episode that features a sea-creature-esque siren that enchants men into killing or destroying the thing that they love most. I believe most incarnations of Harpies that also have them lure their prey using their voice would work as well. Both The Odyssey and Jason and the Argonauts include sirens as bird women who lure ships into jagged rocks and feast upon the sailors on board. There's also Talon from Static Shock who was mutated by the Big Bang to look like a harpy and has a sonic scream.

I see. Glad to see that Wind Waker isn't the first example of this.

I think that fleshing out the visuals of The Deluge would be something. Like, because the mermaid-Sirens are entirely fish-like, perhaps they see The Deluge as a flooded world but from the open waters, never having to weave through the submerged canyons and the roots of great trees. In Japan, there is a creature called the sazae-oni which are demons of sea snails that would entice sailors to have sex with them only to cut off their testicles when they were done. Perhaps these "mollusk-Sirens" are closer to the bottom of the flooded world and do not see the world as much as the mermaid-Sirens. And the more mammalian Sirens based of of the Selkie (human-looking creatures that become seals by wearing a special skin) are found closer to the surface of The Deluge, unable to sink deep enough in the water before having to breach the surface while the harpy-Sirens are firmly above the surface and rest on the remains of the solid earth.

As a side-note, I've noticed that a lot of the morals behind the folklore of river people/mermaids/sirens is a warning not to be entranced by beauty. Would "do not disturb the beauty of the natural world" also work as one of the themes for Siren?

The only problem is that the form of a Siren can be altered and changed. It's possible for Sirens to appear like other animals without needing to be a kind of "strain" so to speak. My only suggestion is that the Deluge would appear differently depending on where in the world you're at rather than "what kind of person or strain of Siren you are". Kind of like how the Shadow and Underworld remains the same to Werewolves and Sin-Eaters.

As for the folklore, I would say that "do not disturb the beauty of the natural world" works and is abit covered by the "do not overstep your boundaries" that Sirens hold for both civilization and nature.

[Reaper Verse]

IIRC, on the forum a question was asked that there should be two subsplats to things. Like the Ghoul and Blood doll types like you said. What if the Ghoul Type are Banshees, and the Blood Doll type are called "The Mute"? People who resist the call out of fear of it, but the extra breath they have in their system makes them easy feeding targets for Sirens?

That would work. Maybe there's a way to divorce it from being too similar to Blood Dolls. Maybe Sirens find people who are Breathless and use them as a sort of lure to find people who do have Breath. Kind of a dark mirror of fishermen. (Granted, this idea is me assuming that Breath is interpreted to be a breath of life and people who are Breathless have long-since become numb to the world around them, thus lacking the breath of life.)

The only problem is that the form of a Siren can be altered and changed. It's possible for Sirens to appear like other animals without needing to be a kind of "strain" so to speak. My only suggestion is that the Deluge would appear differently depending on where in the world you're at rather than "what kind of person or strain of Siren you are". Kind of like how the Shadow and Underworld remains the same to Werewolves and Sin-Eaters.

Ah. I misinterpreted your words earlier. So a Siren's aquatic form can be changed as in they can, at-will, morph parts of their body so they gain a lobster's claw or is it a cosmetic thing?

As for the folklore, I would say that "do not disturb the beauty of the natural world" works and is abit covered by the "do not overstep your boundaries" that Sirens hold for both civilization and nature.

I see, I think a question for this is "What gives Sirens the right to travel both the natural world and the civilized world?" That's sort of a balancing act that make Sirens seem rather...odd, especially if the idea of the "harbinger" is fully incorporated. Perhaps the Sirens cannot enforce change themselves? There was a bit in the original post about Sirens that are more-aligned to humanity or more-aligned to nature which seems rather dissonant if Sirens come between the two. Perhaps Sirens are the mediators attempting to temper civilization with nature, reducing humanity's claim on nature but also preventing nature from invoking its wrath on humanity (such as how the Little Mermaid rescues the sailor from drowning). Sirens themselves want to save humanity from its darker side while taming the world's forces as to not take vengeance on the ones who have wronged it.

As side-notes about the way that the Currents and Oceans are handled, I enjoy the Currents and feel that they work but I am skeptical about the Oceans due to the fact that they are a little too literal in what they are describing. Polaria and Fresh sound perfect and make sense, but name-dropping the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans are too on-the-nose. Of course, I believe that is due to them being artifacts from the previous thread, especially as one of the ideas in the original post stated that the Oceans were more symbolic of what archetype the Siren calls upon when she Surfaces.

Is there another way to refer to this splat so it isn't as confusing to refer to the Atlantic Ocean in terms of the game and in reality? Is it possible to change it so it refers to something different? This was the main reason I posited having sections of The Deluge relate to the harpy-Sirens and mermaid-Sirens and such. It would be difficult as the Sirens are supposed to "Surface", but can Depth play a part as a splat, where the distance the Siren travels in order to Surface affects her in the ways that the Oceans do?

(Such as this: there are five Depths that a Siren may see The Deluge and it changes how long it takes for them to Surface. Sirens that are closer to the top see the depth of The Deluge as a dark place and Surface faster, giving them the outlook of the Fresh Ocean. Sirens that are at the lowest point experience The Deluge in full force and take the longest to Surface, giving them the outlook of the Polaria Ocean.)

Also as a side-note, there is a fifth river in Hades that could be added as an Abyssal Current: Acheron. the River of Woe. Perhaps this relates to grief, pain, and catharsis where Sirens believe that the only way to lash out until others learn to regret.

[SaulottheGentle]

That would work. Maybe there's a way to divorce it from being too similar to Blood Dolls. Maybe Sirens find people who are Breathless and use them as a sort of lure to find people who do have Breath. Kind of a dark mirror of fishermen. (Granted, this idea is me assuming that Breath is interpreted to be a breath of life and people who are Breathless have long-since become numb to the world around them, thus lacking the breath of life.)

Kind of. In the original forum since Sirens had the "beauty" theme (in mythology, it's optional to play on it in game), "Breath" was suggested to be the Sirens fuel stat. They feed off of the breath of life, aka the Human Soul. They don't eat souls to note, but it's been an idea that killing a human (taking the breath of life like you said) could replenish the Sirens entire Breath pool while other ways to gain breath could include stealing someone's voice (like in the little mermaid) or the like could replenish some.

Ah. I misinterpreted your words earlier. So a Siren's aquatic form can be changed as in they can, at-will, morph parts of their body so they gain a lobster's claw or is it a cosmetic thing?

The idea I had for this was that Sirens could choose how their Aquatic form appears to some extent, and they gain mechanical bonuses to things depending on what it is. They're often a trait found on some aquatic animal in nature, and I've suggested that it's best to have three kinds of Alterations (what these morphs are known as). General (any siren can get), Oceanic (Exclusive only to Oceans and based on the animals that live in the Ocean the most (like Polaria Sirens getting natural antifreeze that most fishes in Ant/Arctic oceans have which would make said Sirens with said Alteration immune to cold penalties or weather)) and Echidna/Abyssal ones (Exclusive to Abyssal Currents and followers of Echidna).

If it helps to note, Alterations WILL be limited and that it's possible to use them outside of Aquatic form, but only with the expendature of Breath. In Aquatic form though, the Alterations apply for free and are usually the type of things that are "always on". For example, a Siren who instead of having a fish tail on her bottom half has octopus tentacles instead which are very good at grabbing things.

I see, I think a question for this is "What gives Sirens the right to travel both the natural world and the civilized world?" That's sort of a balancing act that make Sirens seem rather...odd, especially if the idea of the "harbinger" is fully incorporated. Perhaps the Sirens cannot enforce change themselves? There was a bit in the original post about Sirens that are more-aligned to humanity or more-aligned to nature which seems rather dissonant if Sirens come between the two. Perhaps Sirens are the mediators attempting to temper civilization with nature, reducing humanity's claim on nature but also preventing nature from invoking its wrath on humanity (such as how the Little Mermaid rescues the sailor from drowning). Sirens themselves want to save humanity from its darker side while taming the world's forces as to not take vengeance on the ones who have wronged it.

I would say the right is as you said. Sirens are mediators between man and nature. Keeping the boundaries while ensuring they don't fall the same way. If it helps for more conceptualization, Abyssal Currents have philosophies on siding with one and abandoning their duty (Mankind's Victory and Primordial Darkness) or those far more interested in darker, more compromising solutions (Dark Passions and Wisdom)

As side-notes about the way that the Currents and Oceans are handled, I enjoy the Currents and feel that they work but I am skeptical about the Oceans due to the fact that they are a little too literal in what they are describing. Polaria and Fresh sound perfect and make sense, but name-dropping the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans are too on-the-nose. Of course, I believe that is due to them being artifacts from the previous thread, especially as one of the ideas in the original post stated that the Oceans were more symbolic of what archetype the Siren calls upon when she Surfaces.

They are indeed artifacts. The best reason I can see why Oceans should remain the X-Splat name and theme is the same reason why some Alterations are exclusive to Oceans. The animals most living in the Ocean are what make the Ocean Alterations.

Is there another way to refer to this splat so it isn't as confusing to refer to the Atlantic Ocean in terms of the game and in reality? Is it possible to change it so it refers to something different? This was the main reason I posited having sections of The Deluge relate to the harpy-Sirens and mermaid-Sirens and such. It would be difficult as the Sirens are supposed to "Surface", but can Depth play a part as a splat, where the distance the Siren travels in order to Surface affects her in the ways that the Oceans do?

(Such as this: there are five Depths that a Siren may see The Deluge and it changes how long it takes for them to Surface. Sirens that are closer to the top see the depth of The Deluge as a dark place and Surface faster, giving them the outlook of the Fresh Ocean. Sirens that are at the lowest point experience The Deluge in full force and take the longest to Surface, giving them the outlook of the Polaria Ocean.)

Hrm. In that case, would it seem abit better to rename the X-Splat to "Depth" and name the Oceans after Oceanic Zones based off of depth? We can still use the "Ocean Alterations based on animals that live the most in said oceans", but apply them to Depth. Honestly I don't know which we should go with, they both sound like good ideas. I still favor Ocean abit because there are some animals that exclusively live in said zones and would be easier to base Alterations off of.

Also as a side-note, there is a fifth river in Hades that could be added as an Abyssal Current: Acheron. the River of Woe. Perhaps this relates to grief, pain, and catharsis where Sirens believe that the only way to lash out until others learn to regret.

I know of this. How does this sound?

Current of the Void AKA Acheron, the River of Woe: Fuck nature. Fuck civilization. Fuck it all under a world ending tidal wave and give in to the sweet serenity of nothingness.

Alternatively, this could be the current that followers of Echidna subscribe to, to make a new race out of humanity to survive the apocalypse it'll eventually bring unto itself (a manmade apocalypse made by WW3 is just as plausible as a biblical one afterall). It could alternatively be named Current of Echidna,

[Yads Dom]

All the discussions are pretty nice, I'm loving it, wish I had a better english base so I could discuss with you guys. But so far I'm loving how are you handling it all. The "Depths" Idea is neat.

[Reaper Verse]

Kind of. In the original forum since Sirens had the "beauty" theme (in mythology, it's optional to play on it in game), "Breath" was suggested to be the Sirens fuel stat. They feed off of the breath of life, aka the Human Soul. They don't eat souls to note, but it's been an idea that killing a human (taking the breath of life like you said) could replenish the Sirens entire Breath pool while other ways to gain breath could include stealing someone's voice (like in the little mermaid) or the like could replenish some.

As a baseline, I feel that the most basic way to gain Breath is to kiss a willing mortal (and, in effect, stealing their breath away) while the most powerful way is to, not just kill, but drown a mortal (forcibly stealing all their breath). Other ways that vary in how much Breath it offers is stealing someone's voice (I don't know how a Siren would do this literally, but perhaps figuratively stealing their voice by impersonating them), impressing them through spectacular feats (and having them breathless [pun]), and scaring them (and forcing them to gasp out their breath). Perhaps, linking into the idea of "the breath of life", Sirens can help someone out of a depressive state by expending their Breath or can steal even more Breath away by dashing their hopes. Of course, the latter action may end up costing the Siren some of her Serenity.

The idea I had for this was that Sirens could choose how their Aquatic form appears to some extent, and they gain mechanical bonuses to things depending on what it is. They're often a trait found on some aquatic animal in nature, and I've suggested that it's best to have three kinds of Alterations (what these morphs are known as). General (any siren can get), Oceanic (Exclusive only to Oceans and based on the animals that live in the Ocean the most (like Polaria Sirens getting natural antifreeze that most fishes in Ant/Arctic oceans have which would make said Sirens with said Alteration immune to cold penalties or weather)) and Echidna/Abyssal ones (Exclusive to Abyssal Currents and followers of Echidna).

If it helps to note, Alterations WILL be limited and that it's possible to use them outside of Aquatic form, but only with the expendature of Breath. In Aquatic form though, the Alterations apply for free and are usually the type of things that are "always on". For example, a Siren who instead of having a fish tail on her bottom half has octopus tentacles instead which are very good at grabbing things.

That makes sense. In a way to mirror things, will Abyssal Alterations (That is the set-in-stone name, right?) allow Sirens to take on unnatural forms as opposed to the natural Oceanic forms? Like, Sirens that follow the Current of Dark Secrets gain features akin to those of the Deep Ones as opposed to the sleek body of an Oceanic dolphin?

They are indeed artifacts. The best reason I can see why Oceans should remain the X-Splat name and theme is the same reason why some Alterations are exclusive to Oceans. The animals most living in the Ocean are what make the Ocean Alterations.

[...]

Hrm. In that case, would it seem abit better to rename the X-Splat to "Depth" and name the Oceans after Oceanic Zones based off of depth? We can still use the "Ocean Alterations based on animals that live the most in said oceans", but apply them to Depth. Honestly I don't know which we should go with, they both sound like good ideas. I still favor Ocean abit because there are some animals that exclusively live in said zones and would be easier to base Alterations off of.

There are categories of zones based on the factors of Depth and sunlight that define areas where marine life may exist. The Oceans (literal oceans of the Earth) are actually divided into zones based of depth known as the Pelagic zones. These zones are divided based on the amount of sunlight that can penetrate through into the waters, which affects the amount of plant life available and what creatures are able to live in the regions.

The Littoral Zone is the area where sea and land are the closest together, the area in which there is a notable ebb and flow of the tide. Most of the creatures that can live in this area are various types of shellfish and mollusks such as crabs, shrimp, bivalves, barnacles, whelks, sea stars, and the occasional fish.

The Neritic Zone describes an area or body of water in which sunlight fully penetrates the water's surface and reaches the bottom of the body. Areas such as these support most types of coastal fish, coral reefs, otters, seals, turtles, and seahorses.

The Photic/Epipalegic Zone has the most amount of sunlight, strong enough to allow the plant life within to undergo photosynthesis. This is also the area where most sea life resides and contains creatures such as jellyfish, dolphins, turtles, and sharks. Other smaller fish such as barracuda and tuna as well as plankton live in this area as well.

The Mesopalegic Zone still has some sunlight but only enough to be considered twilight. In this area, photosynthesis is impossible, so the creatures that live here either have better gills to breathe or have minimized their use of movement. Such creatures include swordfish and squid; creatures within this area are also capable of biolumination, color-based camouflage, and ambush predation.

The Bathyal/Bathypalegic Zone only has enough light to be considered midnight. At this point, most creatures that are considered fish cannot survive, meaning that giant squids, whales, octopus anglerfish, and creatures coated with a layer of slime can survive. Because of how deep the zone is and how hard it is to live in such conditions, most food comes from the remains floating down to the zone.

The Abyssal/Abyssopalegic Zone is covered in almost entirely pure darkness. Pressure is at its highest and only creatures such as sea cucumbers, sea squirts, snails, starfish, sea urchins, sea spiders, and creatures that can survive on the sea bed can survive. Most of these creatures have no eyes due to the lack of light.

Beyond that is the Hadal/Hadopalegic/Trench Zone, named after Hades. At this point, there is not information on what kinds of creature can exist. Most of these creatures subsist on whatever trickles down and from the heat vents in the ocean floor.

If Depths is used as an axis, the playable Sirens should be found between the Littorial and Bathyal Zone, while Sirens that are found within the Abyssal Zone and below have been overcome by the visions of The Deluge and become warped.

For Siren, perhaps the Siren find themselves drowning, either metaphorically or literally, and see visions of The Deluge. Some have been dragged down into the deep sea; some have been left on the coast of what remains of once-great mountain tops. The Song is an echoing noise that allow the Sirens to look upwards towards the surface and find the light that is shining down upon them, calling to them with its haunting tune. The Surfacing is the moment in which the Sirens decide to fight rather than being carried down and they swim upwards to find air and to feel the warmth of the light on their skin. For some, it feels like a process that last years; for others, it is a fleeting moment. Time within The Deluge is not always constant. Once the Siren reaches the Surface, she lets out a gasp for air, gaining her first Breath in the world of The Deluge. She realizes the struggle with the sea that was drowning her was just a single possibility and that she worked to break through that reality and create her own. She looks back at the waters and sees all of the other Sirens struggling with The Deluge. Some are gasping for air long before they reach the surface, some are being dragged down further, beyond the depths into the great unknown. When the Siren awakens in the real world, she is gifted with the knowledge of The Deluge being a possible future that will claim all of humanity if they continue their ways. She knows she needs to avert this future and, with her experiences in traversing through the Depths, knows how she will go about it.

I know of this. How does this sound?

Current of the Void AKA Acheron, the River of Woe: Fuck nature. Fuck civilization. Fuck it all under a world ending tidal wave and give in to the sweet serenity of nothingness.

Alternatively, this could be the current that followers of Echidna subscribe to, to make a new race out of humanity to survive the apocalypse it'll eventually bring unto itself (a manmade apocalypse made by WW3 is just as plausible as a biblical one afterall). It could alternatively be named Current of Echidna,

Neat. And this Abyssal Current is named as the Current of the Void? Will the other Currents receive a similar treatment or are they going to be "the Current of Dark Secrets"

[Yads Dom]

There are categories of zones based on the factors of Depth and sunlight that define areas where marine life may exist. The Oceans (literal oceans of the Earth) are actually divided into zones based of depth known as the Pelagic zones. These zones are divided based on the amount of sunlight that can penetrate through into the waters, which affects the amount of plant life available and what creatures are able to live in the regions.

The Littoral Zone is the area where sea and land are the closest together, the area in which there is a notable ebb and flow of the tide. Most of the creatures that can live in this area are various types of shellfish and mollusks such as crabs, shrimp, bivalves, barnacles, whelks, sea stars, and the occasional fish.

The Neritic Zone describes an area or body of water in which sunlight fully penetrates the water's surface and reaches the bottom of the body. Areas such as these support most types of coastal fish, coral reefs, otters, seals, turtles, and seahorses.

The Photic/Epipalegic Zone has the most amount of sunlight, strong enough to allow the plant life within to undergo photosynthesis. This is also the area where most sea life resides and contains creatures such as jellyfish, dolphins, turtles, and sharks. Other smaller fish such as barracuda and tuna as well as plankton live in this area as well.

The Mesopalegic Zone still has some sunlight but only enough to be considered twilight. In this area, photosynthesis is impossible, so the creatures that live here either have better gills to breathe or have minimized their use of movement. Such creatures include swordfish and squid; creatures within this area are also capable of biolumination, color-based camouflage, and ambush predation.

The Bathyal/Bathypalegic Zone only has enough light to be considered midnight. At this point, most creatures that are considered fish cannot survive, meaning that giant squids, whales, octopus anglerfish, and creatures coated with a layer of slime can survive. Because of how deep the zone is and how hard it is to live in such conditions, most food comes from the remains floating down to the zone.

The Abyssal/Abyssopalegic Zone is covered in almost entirely pure darkness. Pressure is at its highest and only creatures such as sea cucumbers, sea squirts, snails, starfish, sea urchins, sea spiders, and creatures that can survive on the sea bed can survive. Most of these creatures have no eyes due to the lack of light.

Beyond that is the Hadal/Hadopalegic/Trench Zone, named after Hades. At this point, there is not information on what kinds of creature can exist. Most of these creatures subsist on whatever trickles down and from the heat vents in the ocean floor.

If Depths is used as an axis, the playable Sirens should be found between the Littorial and Bathyal Zone, while Sirens that are found within the Abyssal Zone and below have been overcome by the visions of The Deluge and become warped.

For Siren, perhaps the Siren find themselves drowning, either metaphorically or literally, and see visions of The Deluge. Some have been dragged down into the deep sea; some have been left on the coast of what remains of once-great mountain tops. The Song is an echoing noise that allow the Sirens to look upwards towards the surface and find the light that is shining down upon them, calling to them with its haunting tune. The Surfacing is the moment in which the Sirens decide to fight rather than being carried down and they swim upwards to find air and to feel the warmth of the light on their skin. For some, it feels like a process that last years; for others, it is a fleeting moment. Time within The Deluge is not always constant. Once the Siren reaches the Surface, she lets out a gasp for air, gaining her first Breath in the world of The Deluge. She realizes the struggle with the sea that was drowning her was just a single possibility and that she worked to break through that reality and create her own. She looks back at the waters and sees all of the other Sirens struggling with The Deluge. Some are gasping for air long before they reach the surface, some are being dragged down further, beyond the depths into the great unknown. When the Siren awakens in the real world, she is gifted with the knowledge of The Deluge being a possible future that will claim all of humanity if they continue their ways. She knows she needs to avert this future and, with her experiences in traversing through the Depths, knows how she will go about it.

That gave me chills. Aweaomw'

[SaulottheGentle]

As a baseline, I feel that the most basic way to gain Breath is to kiss a willing mortal (and, in effect, stealing their breath away) while the most powerful way is to, not just kill, but drown a mortal (forcibly stealing all their breath). Other ways that vary in how much Breath it offers is stealing someone's voice (I don't know how a Siren would do this literally, but perhaps figuratively stealing their voice by impersonating them), impressing them through spectacular feats (and having them breathless [pun]), and scaring them (and forcing them to gasp out their breath). Perhaps, linking into the idea of "the breath of life", Sirens can help someone out of a depressive state by expending their Breath or can steal even more Breath away by dashing their hopes. Of course, the latter action may end up costing the Siren some of her Serenity.

This is just a fantastic pun storm. XD Yes, these are all really good ideas! Especially the last one, which I imagine would be a regular gameplay (or downtime) way for Sirens to replenish their Breath by getting people to act. I also imagine it being the most popular way for Abyssal Sirens to gain Breath (by dashing hopes).

One idea for Abyssals that I recall from the original forum is the idea of an Abyssal Siren Cheerleader. She seduces most of the boys she meets and at the end of every relationship, she reveals it was all a lie and breaks their hearts, leaving them hollow versions of themselves. But when he said "I love you" to each of them, she actually meant it.

That makes sense. In a way to mirror things, will Abyssal Alterations (That is the set-in-stone name, right?) allow Sirens to take on unnatural forms as opposed to the natural Oceanic forms? Like, Sirens that follow the Current of Dark Secrets gain features akin to those of the Deep Ones as opposed to the sleek body of an Oceanic dolphin?

Probably. The only thing that's a small problem is that there's still a difference between Abyssals and Echidna followers. Abyssals have dubious and probably Serenity reducing solutions, but they get stuff done and the Abyssal Difference from the normal Currents is simply philosophical. Echidna mixes fish and human together for flimsy and evil reasons and joining up with her (as far as I've read on the original forums) it doesn't seem entirely possible to leave her side once you're on it. Another idea I had which is why I put a difference between Abyssal and Echidnal Alterations was that Echidna could give special Alterations that were more potent than normal Alterations and weren't subject to the limits of Sirens Alteration limit. However, Echidna Alterations are still present even on human form to level the cost.

I would say that the "Deep Ones" should be kept with Echidna, because if Sirens were able to naturally get those Alterations, then it would be stepping on Leviathan the Tempest's toes. However, because Echidnal Alterations are unnatural by definition, it would be finer because then it wouldn't step on Leviathan as much as it would be if they were natural. I also sort of imagined that Abyssal Sirens would get Alterations based on animals in the Abyssopalegic Zone as noted in your next paragraph. Deep black squid, Angler fish, various other things that make most people "nope" out of the ocean.

There are categories of zones based on the factors of Depth and sunlight that define areas where marine life may exist. The Oceans (literal oceans of the Earth) are actually divided into zones based of depth known as the Pelagic zones. These zones are divided based on the amount of sunlight that can penetrate through into the waters, which affects the amount of plant life available and what creatures are able to live in the regions.
...
If Depths is used as an axis, the playable Sirens should be found between the Littorial and Bathyal Zone, while Sirens that are found within the Abyssal Zone and below have been overcome by the visions of The Deluge and become warped.

This is nice. To ask, Abyssal zone has no connection to the Abyssal Currents? The reason I ask is because Abyssals aren't an inherent splat (or at least, weren't meant to be inherent splats at all). Or are Sirens who Surface part of the Sirens who surface as absolute monsters? Kind of like how some Mages awake to being some of the Mad?

EDIT: I'm sold on this by the way, Depths should be the X Splat. Is there any objections? :3

For Siren, perhaps the Siren find themselves drowning, either metaphorically or literally, and see visions of The Deluge. Some have been dragged down into the deep sea; some have been left on the coast of what remains of once-great mountain tops. The Song is an echoing noise that allow the Sirens to look upwards towards the surface and find the light that is shining down upon them, calling to them with its haunting tune. The Surfacing is the moment in which the Sirens decide to fight rather than being carried down and they swim upwards to find air and to feel the warmth of the light on their skin. For some, it feels like a process that last years; for others, it is a fleeting moment. Time within The Deluge is not always constant. Once the Siren reaches the Surface, she lets out a gasp for air, gaining her first Breath in the world of The Deluge. She realizes the struggle with the sea that was drowning her was just a single possibility and that she worked to break through that reality and create her own. She looks back at the waters and sees all of the other Sirens struggling with The Deluge. Some are gasping for air long before they reach the surface, some are being dragged down further, beyond the depths into the great unknown. When the Siren awakens in the real world, she is gifted with the knowledge of The Deluge being a possible future that will claim all of humanity if they continue their ways. She knows she needs to avert this future and, with her experiences in traversing through the Depths, knows how she will go about it.

Nice. Perhaps fittingly, this reminds me of Princess the Hopeful, but played differently. When Princesses Blossom, they are stuck in a really stressful situation where if they picked an option that wasn't "the right thing" they wouldn't have been able to forgive themselves otherwise. After which, usually when they fall asleep they recall bits of pieces of their previous incarnations/past lives, all the way back to the time of the Kingdoms in which were the ultimate pinnacle of good. When they blossom, they know that it was possible to make the Kingdom once, and therefore possible to create it once more.

This story for Sirens is the backwards (or is it forwards?) version of that. It's where they're trapped by nearly drowning into despair, but despite all odds cling to and act for hope. When they Surface, they become Sirens and know the truth of the Deluge. It's the recorded past and forseeable future that everything and everyone will eventually sink to become. I take it that the "She knows she needs to avert this future and how she will go about it" was referring to joining Social Axises? Speaking of which, I forgot to mention that in the thread, Sirens who aren't a part of a social axis are known as "Castaways".

Which reminds me, this story of Surfacing actually makes this gameline a nice successor to Werewolf the Apocalypse in a sense. Instead of fighting against an opponent already present and a completely unavoidable apocalypse however, Sirens faces antagonists only when it threatens to overstep boundaries and that the apocalyptic scenario is both known of and avoidable if enough help is given to Sirens.

Neat. And this Abyssal Current is named as the Current of the Void? Will the other Currents receive a similar treatment or are they going to be "the Current of Dark Secrets"

Technically speaking, there'll be five Abyssal Currents as it seems. Dark Passions, Dark Wisdom, Mankind's Victory, Primordial Darkness and Void. The first four are artifacts from the thread, but the Rivers of Hades were suggested to be alternate names for them (or renames because at the time of those posts, that's what was being discussed).

[Reaper Verse]

Probably. The only thing that's a small problem is that there's still a difference between Abyssals and Echidna followers. Abyssals have dubious and probably Serenity reducing solutions, but they get stuff done and the Abyssal Difference from the normal Currents is simply philosophical. Echidna mixes fish and human together for flimsy and evil reasons and joining up with her (as far as I've read on the original forums) it doesn't seem entirely possible to leave her side once you're on it. Another idea I had which is why I put a difference between Abyssal and Echidnal Alterations was that Echidna could give special Alterations that were more potent than normal Alterations and weren't subject to the limits of Sirens Alteration limit. However, Echidna Alterations are still present even on human form to level the cost.

I would say that the "Deep Ones" should be kept with Echidna, because if Sirens were able to naturally get those Alterations, then it would be stepping on Leviathan the Tempest's toes. However, because Echidnal Alterations are unnatural by definition, it would be finer because then it wouldn't step on Leviathan as much as it would be if they were natural. I also sort of imagined that Abyssal Sirens would get Alterations based on animals in the Abyssopalegic Zone as noted in your next paragraph. Deep black squid, Angler fish, various other things that make most people "nope" out of the ocean.

[...]

This is nice. To ask, Abyssal zone has no connection to the Abyssal Currents? The reason I ask is because Abyssals aren't an inherent splat (or at least, weren't meant to be inherent splats at all). Or are Sirens who Surface part of the Sirens who surface as absolute monsters? Kind of like how some Mages awake to being some of the Mad?

EDIT: I'm sold on this by the way, Depths should be the X Splat. Is there any objections? :3

Ah. So Echidnal Alterations are a more permanent blend of creature and human. Alright. Could it be possible that creatures that are obviously less humanoid than Sirens follow Echidna, such as the part-horse Kelpie or the Kappa?

And with the Abyssal Zone, maybe Sirens who have seen the Abyssal Zone are more-inclined to take up the Abyssal Currents, like how the Zeka from Promethean find it easier to practice and harder to escape from Centimanus. They were taken too deep into The Deluge and were bathed in pure darkness. Their Surfacing wasn't because they were able to each the light above; their Surfacing was a blind search, swimming in every direction until they found an alcove with a pocket of air and took a Breath of the stagnant air. They became Sirens, but they cannot see the full picture. Their suffering within The Deluge drove them to madness and fury, allowing them to follow the Abyssal Currents with no trouble.

Nice. Perhaps fittingly, this reminds me of Princess the Hopeful, but played differently. When Princesses Blossom, they are stuck in a really stressful situation where if they picked an option that wasn't "the right thing" they wouldn't have been able to forgive themselves otherwise. After which, usually when they fall asleep they recall bits of pieces of their previous incarnations/past lives, all the way back to the time of the Kingdoms in which were the ultimate pinnacle of good. When they blossom, they know that it was possible to make the Kingdom once, and therefore possible to create it once more.

This story for Sirens is the backwards (or is it forwards?) version of that. It's where they're trapped by nearly drowning into despair, but despite all odds cling to and act for hope. When they Surface, they become Sirens and know the truth of the Deluge. It's the recorded past and forseeable future that everything and everyone will eventually sink to become. I take it that the "She knows she needs to avert this future and how she will go about it" was referring to joining Social Axises? Speaking of which, I forgot to mention that in the thread, Sirens who aren't a part of a social axis are known as "Castaways".

Which reminds me, this story of Surfacing actually makes this gameline a nice successor to Werewolf the Apocalypse in a sense. Instead of fighting against an opponent already present and a completely unavoidable apocalypse however, Sirens faces antagonists only when it threatens to overstep boundaries and that the apocalyptic scenario is both known of and avoidable if enough help is given to Sirens.

I completely forgot about Princesses and Blossoming. I think with Princesses and Sirens, Princesses are focused on nostalgia while Sirens are focused on change. Princesses have memories and want to fix everything by keeping things the same and bringing them back to the "Golden Era". Sirens have visions and want to fix everything by preventing things from staying the same.

And I didn't realize Sirens also mirror Werewolf: the Apocalypse. Perhaps the Sirens have a sort of temporal empathy where they can feel when someone's actions will lead to a disastrous outcome. It might be something rather small and comparatively trivial, like having visions of a couple attempting to mend their relationship, or it could be something dramatic and that affects a community, like a child's kidnapping. The world is somehow affected by these occurrences and by interrupting these events or preventing them from occurring, The Siren feels as if the water of The Deluge has been affected.


Another side-note: The Deluge is a natural occurrence that will happen once humanity has completely overstepped its boundary. In some way, humanity has also contributed to The Deluge by falling into despair. At some moment in the future, humanity had accepted its fate of being swallowed by the seas. Scientists had given up, families were holding each other as they said goodbye. The hopeless began to dig graves to allow those who wished for death a proper burial. The Deluge grew in size, not just because nature was going to reclaim the world, but because humanity gave it their tears. Every moment of sorrow, every sob that was choked out gave The Deluge its strength to take back humanity. The waves grew larger and larger, wiping out coastlines and swallowing cities into its torrential maw. Every child taken let their tears fall as they lost their grip on their mother's hands. Every lover screamed out in pain as their other half was swept away from them. The last few of humanity climbed up mountaintops, unable to allow themselves the cold embrace of the sea. It was the end of humanity.

And then, someone began to sing.

It was a morose, hollow tune that came from the last survivors, a mournful dirge as a reminder of humanity's folly. But it was...beautiful, ethereal. For a moment, everything stopped. The wind that whipped against the waves stood still. The tide that raged against the remains of the mountains stilled, cowing to the Song. The last of humanity dried their tears as they listed to the Song, taking in every note that came from the singer's mouth. It was supposed to be their funeral song, the final thing they could hear before the waves took them, but it was strange. It was strange how powerful the voice was as it broke against the crashing tides. It was strange how calming the Song was despite the destruction that laid beneath it. It was strange how...uplifting it was. It was something that humanity had forgotten long ago. It was something that only those who were never exposed to the harshness of humanity could experience. It was hope. It was peace.

It was the pure joy of life.

And that is when the rest felt themselves compelled to sing. The remaining people, the tired, the weary, the hopeless, began to sing the Song in harmony. It was no longer a painful, ironic tune for the death of humanity. It was a Song that resonated within everyone. It was a reflective melody, an anthem that screamed out in solidarity. Humanity cried out a Song of hope out into the empty skies, letting every emotion escape from their heart. One by one, they felt themselves being lifted up into the air, reaching toward the last bit of sunlight that could pierce through the storm clouds. They let their voice call out into the sea as they took to the air, feeling themselves float through the wind. They were calling out to those who had been drowned, to those who were lost to the waters, wishing them to hear their call. They wished to share their Song to those who had been taken.

And the drowned had heard them.

One by one, the surface of The Deluge broke as humanity rose above the water. Those submerged for so long desperately gasped for a Breath of air, taking in the light that was cast down upon them and finally hearing the Song in full form. They looked upon themselves and realized that they were different. Though their core being was still human, they saw their changes in the light. Fins that stretched out from their arms, a strong carapace that wrapped around them like a suit of armor, a soft tail that propelled them through the waters. They weren't only humans forced to stay within their own boundaries, they were a gestalt. The refinement of civilization crossed with the beauty of the natural world. They were a new being formed from an old society and an even older wilderness. They were given a second chance, not as individuals who have done wrong, but as a species who must do right. No one must suffer from the crushing despair. No one must experience such a pain. No one must be taken by The Deluge.

The individual finds themselves huddled down against the ground. What was it that played through their mind? An ocean of despair? An overwhelming force that dragged them down? Was it all just a hallucination? Was it a forewarning? The individual contemplates this as they head into the nearest restroom to wipe their brow. Maybe it is a warning. Maybe there is something that needs to be done. Maybe they are a second chance for humanity.

As they wet their hands in the restroom sink, they see the scales that pepper their hands through the water.

[SaulottheGentle]

Ah. So Echidnal Alterations are a more permanent blend of creature and human. Alright. Could it be possible that creatures that are obviously less humanoid than Sirens follow Echidna, such as the part-horse Kelpie or the Kappa?

At least that's what I have for ideas on them. And yes, it should be completely possible to be less humanoid, or even be completely incapable of being mistaken for human. As for Kelpies or Kappa, we so far have "Vodianoi" being the name for Echidna's children, her monstrous experiments in the attempt to make a race to survive the apocalypse. It's been suggested on the original forum that Echidna cannot procreate at all, but it's been agreed on that she she takes the DNA of man and fish, puts them into the blender of her body, spits them back out and sends them out to see how they'll do for survival. Or lets Sirens allied with her use them as they see fit. One or the other. Here's what I have on them by the way.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-LQD_y7kgREnvf0Dg3U1uaDFRhMuOVJzM3UwckjjE8o/edit?usp=sharing

Malformations are just an idea I had for what Echidna's Alterations could be called, but I got borked before I could make anything else. I think though that if Echindal Alterations/Malformations are able to be taken by Sirens, then Vodianoi should be able to have some other special power that only they can access. Like the Cacophonies that Yads suggested earlier.We might have to wait until we get to writing up how Songs (Their version of Disciplines, Contracts, Gifts, etc) are first though.

And with the Abyssal Zone, maybe Sirens who have seen the Abyssal Zone are more-inclined to take up the Abyssal Currents, like how the Zeka from Promethean find it easier to practice and harder to escape from Centimanus. They were taken too deep into The Deluge and were bathed in pure darkness. Their Surfacing wasn't because they were able to each the light above; their Surfacing was a blind search, swimming in every direction until they found an alcove with a pocket of air and took a Breath of the stagnant air. They became Sirens, but they cannot see the full picture. Their suffering within The Deluge drove them to madness and fury, allowing them to follow the Abyssal Currents with no trouble.

I see. :3

I completely forgot about Princesses and Blossoming. I think with Princesses and Sirens, Princesses are focused on nostalgia while Sirens are focused on change. Princesses have memories and want to fix everything by keeping things the same and bringing them back to the "Golden Era". Sirens have visions and want to fix everything by preventing things from staying the same.

Speaking as someone whose helped abit PtH and is on the threads alot, I would say that Princesses are focused on change while Sirens are focused on inspiration. The reason I say this is why the heck would Princesses want to keep the World of Darkness like it is? Corruption lurks around every corner and if a Princess wants to recreate a bastion of Light like the Kingdoms were, then she's going to have to inevitably change things or require change in order to make that better world. After all, it's the Light's nature to create and renew, and the Dark's to stagnate and corrupt. Although the Court of Tears IS keen on keeping things the way they are (more in Alhambra, the one thing they'd want to change on Earth is to claim it in Alhambra's name).

For Sirens, the reason I say protection is that, considering this being the World of Darkness, there's many people who are either all too happy to plunder nature's bounties and many more who simply don't care what happens. The most of the minority of people who do want to change stuff and protect wildlife and nature are easily brushed off by the said people plundering natures bounty, and those who can actually make a difference to protect things are quietly taken care of. In the past paragraph, I've been speaking in a strictly mortal sense. Sirens, unlike mortals, will considerably be able to rally mortals who do care and not be one of the people who can make a difference who gets shot down. They'll be able to inspire mortals who don't care to act up and make them see what'll happen if things continue the way they are (not in the "look at the Deluge" sense, it's completely possible to show it in a mundane sense).

And I didn't realize Sirens also mirror Werewolf: the Apocalypse. Perhaps the Sirens have a sort of temporal empathy where they can feel when someone's actions will lead to a disastrous outcome. It might be something rather small and comparatively trivial, like having visions of a couple attempting to mend their relationship, or it could be something dramatic and that affects a community, like a child's kidnapping. The world is somehow affected by these occurrences and by interrupting these events or preventing them from occurring, The Siren feels as if the water of The Deluge has been affected.

Speaking of which, there's a few pitfalls of Werewolf the Apocalypse that I don't want Siren the Drowning to fall into.
To make this as clear as possible for anyone reading:

1: I don't want any implications that Civilization and all of it's fruits (technology, religion, etc) are evil. This can go a few ways. One is the Technological side. Technology isn't inherently evil. If there's disasters, then it's better to clean up the mess, fix the problem on the equipment so it doesn't happen again. Another way is "civilization in general", people thinking it's better to get back to nature and live in caves. If nothing else, the best thing I can put is that civilization IS NOT inherently evil and that civilization is as much of nature as nature is part of civilization and it doesn't matter if there will be a freak accident oil spill or a tornado that kills an entire city, there will always be problems that simply cannot be fixed or will reappear no matter what and killing off one side doesn't solve the problems in the other.

2: I don't want to force anyone playing this into one single role or into only one single way to play things, which in both this case and in WtA is Ecowarriorism. It's fine that people want to save the Earth and all, and that's cool. But if that's all that Sirens do, then it'll quickly kill off interest for people wanting to do some other role. The main point of this is that it should be possible to play almost any role the player wants to do as long as the main point of the splat is there. For example, Princesses are generally hopebringers or Werewolves are Spirit Police. It's fine if it's generally done, but if it's shoved down the throat of the players in a "but thou must" fashion (as in you can only ever be a hopebringer or a Spirit Cop) then it loses any allure to playing. For Sirens, I believe that their general role would be as "Mediator".

I'm sorry if sounding bad or if getting anything wrong, I just wanted to point out those pitfalls so that they may be avoided. If it sounds like a rant, it's not meant to be, I'm just greatly fearful of this game falling into said pitfalls and wanting to state my desire of avoiding those pitfalls at all costs.

*snip story of the Deluge*

This would be a really great beginning story/paragraph to the corebook when we make one.

Yads, you can still contribute to the discussion if you want to. Don't worry about any bad english. Just do your best, it's all anyone can ask you to do. :3

[Reaper Verse]

At least that's what I have for ideas on them. And yes, it should be completely possible to be less humanoid, or even be completely incapable of being mistaken for human. As for Kelpies or Kappa, we so far have "Vodianoi" being the name for Echidna's children, her monstrous experiments in the attempt to make a race to survive the apocalypse. It's been suggested on the original forum that Echidna cannot procreate at all, but it's been agreed on that she she takes the DNA of man and fish, puts them into the blender of her body, spits them back out and sends them out to see how they'll do for survival. Or lets Sirens allied with her use them as they see fit. One or the other. Here's what I have on them by the way.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-LQD_y7kgREnvf0Dg3U1uaDFRhMuOVJzM3UwckjjE8o/edit?usp=sharing

Malformations are just an idea I had for what Echidna's Alterations could be called, but I got borked before I could make anything else. I think though that if Echindal Alterations/Malformations are able to be taken by Sirens, then Vodianoi should be able to have some other special power that only they can access. Like the Cacophonies that Yads suggested earlier.We might have to wait until we get to writing up how Songs (Their version of Disciplines, Contracts, Gifts, etc) are first though.

Building a base for the Songs (probably change this so that it doesn't conflict with the plot-important Song. Maybe Sirens can impart a section of the Song into the abilities they cast, effectively constructing a Verse?) would be best. So far, these Verses are modular and feature a prelude that describes who/what is being targeted, what the Verse is supposed to do, and the quality that affects the Verse. So, a Verse that goes [Single Target] [Protect] [Water] causes a purification affect that washes someone or detoxifies them and a Verse that goes [Area] [Transformation] [Fear] causes the Siren to sing in an infrasonic level, causing those who are affected to suffer from hallucinations. Constructing these Verses off-hand means that the Siren is working A Capella, testing out the effects of creating a Verse without fully understanding what the outcome may be. When a Siren successfully constructs a Verse to her intent, she can memorize the effect of the Verse by codifying it and creating a Stanza. Like what you stated before, singing Area-Control-Rain is a Verse that creates a rainstorm; however, singing a memorized Stanza that is named "Crying Sky Blues" allows for a more refined version of a rainstorm. As an extrapolation, a different Siren may compose an Area-Control-Rain Verse that, instead of creating a rainstorm, is meant to ease the effects of natural weather like heavy sunlight, flooding, or fog. The Siren adds her own emotions into the Verse and creates the "Aria of Tranquil Sky" Stanza. A third Siren who knows the "Area", "Control", and "Rain" parts might even be able to learn the two different Stanzas from the other Sirens.

Speaking as someone whose helped abit PtH and is on the threads alot, I would say that Princesses are focused on change while Sirens are focused on inspiration. The reason I say this is why the heck would Princesses want to keep the World of Darkness like it is? Corruption lurks around every corner and if a Princess wants to recreate a bastion of Light like the Kingdoms were, then she's going to have to inevitably change things or require change in order to make that better world. After all, it's the Light's nature to create and renew, and the Dark's to stagnate and corrupt. Although the Court of Tears IS keen on keeping things the way they are (more in Alhambra, the one thing they'd want to change on Earth is to claim it in Alhambra's name).

For Sirens, the reason I say protection is that, considering this being the World of Darkness, there's many people who are either all too happy to plunder nature's bounties and many more who simply don't care what happens. The most of the minority of people who do want to change stuff and protect wildlife and nature are easily brushed off by the said people plundering natures bounty, and those who can actually make a difference to protect things are quietly taken care of. In the past paragraph, I've been speaking in a strictly mortal sense. Sirens, unlike mortals, will considerably be able to rally mortals who do care and not be one of the people who can make a difference who gets shot down. They'll be able to inspire mortals who don't care to act up and make them see what'll happen if things continue the way they are (not in the "look at the Deluge" sense, it's completely possible to show it in a mundane sense).

[+]

2: I don't want to force anyone playing this into one single role or into only one single way to play things, which in both this case and in WtA is Ecowarriorism. It's fine that people want to save the Earth and all, and that's cool. But if that's all that Sirens do, then it'll quickly kill off interest for people wanting to do some other role. The main point of this is that it should be possible to play almost any role the player wants to do as long as the main point of the splat is there. For example, Princesses are generally hopebringers or Werewolves are Spirit Police. It's fine if it's generally done, but if it's shoved down the throat of the players in a "but thou must" fashion (as in you can only ever be a hopebringer or a Spirit Cop) then it loses any allure to playing. For Sirens, I believe that their general role would be as "Mediator".

Hmm...perhaps there is a way to capitalize on the "Mediator" idea and further incorporate the "inspiration" focus. They cannot live purely with humanity and they cannot live purely within the wild, so they have become accustomed to living a life in which they are frequently popping in and popping out. The Sirens seek out humans who have the potential to change the fate of the world and attempt to push them to make these changes without revealing why they need to. The Sirens also need to look after nature, which is slowly attempting to take back the Earth. There are beings of the primal Earth that hunger for the time to destroy humanity or to expand their reach against the civilized world. Thorny briers and kudzu-like vines overgrow cities, wildfires break out in areas that do not make sense, lakes and oceans pulsate as they swallow ships whole. [In effect, think SCP-1100, which causes plants to explode near humans and forces domestic animals to go feral on their owners] Sirens whisper to humanity to change their ways while taming the fury before it grows out of control. They may appear to humanity as Mysterious Waifs, subtly pointing individuals towards change. They may hide in the wild to calm the angered world, protecting others from feeding into nature's wrath. They may take to being iconic faces in society, inspiring others to keep from losing themselves to the drowning sensation of modern life. They may even just seek to make others happy, allowing them to partake in the Breath of life and keeping The Deluge from claiming their tears.

Although the overall message still leans towards "Environmentalism", it also has notes about "Fighting against Complacency", "Eliminating the Toxic Influences in Your Life", "Preventing the Preventable", and "Experiencing Life in All Its Splendor".

[SaulottheGentle]

Building a base for the Songs (probably change this so that it doesn't conflict with the plot-important Song. Maybe Sirens can impart a section of the Song into the abilities they cast, effectively constructing a Verse?) would be best. So far, these Verses are modular and feature a prelude that describes who/what is being targeted, what the Verse is supposed to do, and the quality that affects the Verse. So, a Verse that goes [Single Target] [Protect] [Water] causes a purification affect that washes someone or detoxifies them and a Verse that goes [Area] [Transformation] [Fear] causes the Siren to sing in an infrasonic level, causing those who are affected to suffer from hallucinations. Constructing these Verses off-hand means that the Siren is working A Capella, testing out the effects of creating a Verse without fully understanding what the outcome may be. When a Siren successfully constructs a Verse to her intent, she can memorize the effect of the Verse by codifying it and creating a Stanza. Like what you stated before, singing Area-Control-Rain is a Verse that creates a rainstorm; however, singing a memorized Stanza that is named "Crying Sky Blues" allows for a more refined version of a rainstorm. As an extrapolation, a different Siren may compose an Area-Control-Rain Verse that, instead of creating a rainstorm, is meant to ease the effects of natural weather like heavy sunlight, flooding, or fog. The Siren adds her own emotions into the Verse and creates the "Aria of Tranquil Sky" Stanza. A third Siren who knows the "Area", "Control", and "Rain" parts might even be able to learn the two different Stanzas from the other Sirens.

Now all we need is some magical language merit that most other Supernaturals have (High Speech, Royal Tongue, First Tongue) for bonuses and we're set. XD

On a serious note, I do like how these are coming up. I should make a Doc for a Lexicon for Siren Terminology.

I'm also mulling over the possibility of being able to put in multiple Conclusions to the Verses (Such as "Area-Control-Weather-Water" could create a rainstorm with "Weather + Water" being the Conclusions). Or perhaps that the Conclusion and the middle word could switch places (as it seems the middle word (Control, Transform, Invoke, etc) is telling what you're going to do with it). What do you think?

Hmm...perhaps there is a way to capitalize on the "Mediator" idea and further incorporate the "inspiration" focus. They cannot live purely with humanity and they cannot live purely within the wild, so they have become accustomed to living a life in which they are frequently popping in and popping out. The Sirens seek out humans who have the potential to change the fate of the world and attempt to push them to make these changes without revealing why they need to. The Sirens also need to look after nature, which is slowly attempting to take back the Earth. There are beings of the primal Earth that hunger for the time to destroy humanity or to expand their reach against the civilized world. Thorny briers and kudzu-like vines overgrow cities, wildfires break out in areas that do not make sense, lakes and oceans pulsate as they swallow ships whole. [In effect, think SCP-1100, which causes plants to explode near humans and forces domestic animals to go feral on their owners] Sirens whisper to humanity to change their ways while taming the fury before it grows out of control. They may appear to humanity as Mysterious Waifs, subtly pointing individuals towards change. They may hide in the wild to calm the angered world, protecting others from feeding into nature's wrath. They may take to being iconic faces in society, inspiring others to keep from losing themselves to the drowning sensation of modern life. They may even just seek to make others happy, allowing them to partake in the Breath of life and keeping The Deluge from claiming their tears.

Although the overall message still leans towards "Environmentalism", it also has notes about "Fighting against Complacency", "Eliminating the Toxic Influences in Your Life", "Preventing the Preventable", and "Experiencing Life in All Its Splendor".

Silly me, I just realized how in the post I made I didn't change "protector" in the second paragraph to "inspirator" or something. Anyways, your ideas basically cover it. Thank you so much, I'm sorry if overrelying or sounding bad on the post of pitfalls, I'm not angry, just not wanting the same pitfalls to happen.

Perhaps just one last question when it comes to X Splat. You mentioned Depth being used instead of Ocean. I do like the idea, but just to be really clear, are they intended to replace Oceans or are they a way to explain how a Siren Surfaces with the outlook she has?

[Reaper Verse]

Now all we need is some magical language merit that most other Supernaturals have (High Speech, Royal Tongue, First Tongue) for bonuses and we're set. XD

On a serious note, I do like how these are coming up. I should make a Doc for a Lexicon for Siren Terminology.

I'm also mulling over the possibility of being able to put in multiple Conclusions to the Verses (Such as "Area-Control-Weather-Water" could create a rainstorm with "Weather + Water" being the Conclusions). Or perhaps that the Conclusion and the middle word could switch places (as it seems the middle word (Control, Transform, Invoke, etc) is telling what you're going to do with it). What do you think?

For the Conclusion, it could work as if you are attempting to mash two words together to create a very specific word. Sort of like German. Like, the word "Sky" and the word "Water" exist as Conclusions by themselves, but combining them allows you to specify that you are attempting to invoke "Sky-Water" AKA rain. Or combining "Light" and "Pain" to make "Light-Pain" which could be lightning or fire. By combining words, it allows the Siren to achieve a more specific goal but it may cause it to backfire. "Stone-Water" may refer to sand or it could refer to ice. "Pain-Water" could mean blood or it could mean poison. And combining words that are fundamentally different, like trying to sing "Sky-Stone" for a meteorite or comet, may cause a Dissonance in the Verse and cause some effect.

I also don't understand what you mean when you ask about switching the middle and Conclusion. Do you mean grammatically so it goes [Area of Effect] [Quality of Verse] [Effect of Verse]?

Silly me, I just realized how in the post I made I didn't change "protector" in the second paragraph to "inspirator" or something. Anyways, your ideas basically cover it. Thank you so much, I'm sorry if overrelying or sounding bad on the post of pitfalls, I'm not angry, just not wanting the same pitfalls to happen.

No worries. If there's a point of contention, that just means the original post had something that was unclear or seemed to lean towards some area. Calling attention helps create discussion.

Perhaps just one last question when it comes to X Splat. You mentioned Depth being used instead of Ocean. I do like the idea, but just to be really clear, are they intended to replace Oceans or are they a way to explain how a Siren Surfaces with the outlook she has?

I think the Depths are to replace Ocean. Depth is where a Siren started off before she managed to Surface; it gives her a sense of what is around her and where she comes from. She may be close to the Surface and was exposed to what remains of the world after The Deluge. She may come incredibly far within The Deluge and struggles with the pressure and darkness that hold her down. Depth would be more of a "How was your childhood?" Currents would be more of the outlook, sort of like "What made everything change?". The Depth is where the Siren was in The Deluge and The Current is how she managed to Surface.

[SaulottheGentle]

For the Conclusion, it could work as if you are attempting to mash two words together to create a very specific word. Sort of like German. Like, the word "Sky" and the word "Water" exist as Conclusions by themselves, but combining them allows you to specify that you are attempting to invoke "Sky-Water" AKA rain. Or combining "Light" and "Pain" to make "Light-Pain" which could be lightning or fire. By combining words, it allows the Siren to achieve a more specific goal but it may cause it to backfire. "Stone-Water" may refer to sand or it could refer to ice. "Pain-Water" could mean blood or it could mean poison. And combining words that are fundamentally different, like trying to sing "Sky-Stone" for a meteorite or comet, may cause a Dissonance in the Verse and cause some effect.

I also don't understand what you mean when you ask about switching the middle and Conclusion. Do you mean grammatically so it goes [Area of Effect] [Quality of Verse] [Effect of Verse]?

Indeed. And in my original post in naming the Song's different sections, I mentioned that
Introduction - First Word used that refers to what it's affecting (Single/Multi target and Area of Effect)
Verse/Opus (the word I used for naming the Second Word rather than how you used it. I'll rename it to Opus) - Second Word involving what the Siren wants to do (Transform, Invoke, Control, etcetc)
Conclusion - The Third Word that is what the Siren wants to effect (Ice, Water, Fear, Sky, etc)

When I spoke of "switching them around', I was thinking that it might be better to have Opus and Conclusion switch definition with each other. Opus would hold what the Siren wanted to affect (Sky, Water, Fear etc) and Conclusion would have what the Siren wanted to do with it (Control, Invoke etc). Just purely for the sake of "Conclusion" being a case of "what it says on the tin can", in this case being "to what end the Siren wants the opus subject to do. So it would be like "Area-Rain-Invoke" to bring about a rainfall.

I think the Depths are to replace Ocean. Depth is where a Siren started off before she managed to Surface; it gives her a sense of what is around her and where she comes from. She may be close to the Surface and was exposed to what remains of the world after The Deluge. She may come incredibly far within The Deluge and struggles with the pressure and darkness that hold her down. Depth would be more of a "How was your childhood?" Currents would be more of the outlook, sort of like "What made everything change?". The Depth is where the Siren was in The Deluge and The Current is how she managed to Surface.

I see. I'm sorry for being that person who clings to ideas until there's no use in holding to them, but I have some reasons/arguments for why Oceans should be kept.

For one, the Deluge is a possible bad end future and it literally and figuratively encompasses all Oceans equally. In the perspective of the Deluge, it could refer to where the Siren comes to when she surfaces (Such as a Polaria Siren surfacing where the air is cold and icebergs float about with the corpses of those who cried out the Song are still frozen atop of them) and could be explained accordingly. For another, while the Depths idea does make the pool for Alterations greater for each Depth, it takes out any possibility of General Alterations existing. On the other hand, Oceans would have a lesser pool for Alterations, but it would be greater emphasized how they're belonging only to that ocean. Finally, the only reasoning I have left is that Oceans could be tied to the Mythology of the Merfolk of the Ocean it's based on, kind of like how Vampire Clans are based on Vampire Genres/famous tellings of Vampires or how they acted in stories.

I'm sorry for bringing these thoughts up. D: