Siren: The Surfacing (nWoD Abandoned Fangame Resurrection)

[Phoenix853457]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren_(mythology)

[TerrorCooper]

Apologies if this has already been agreed upon and I resultantly sound like a broken record, but while a Concert is the name for a group of mermaids working together to boost the power of a verse, what’s the name for a social group of Sirens? I’m not speaking of Currents, those aren’t on the correct scale, but of troupe-scale groupings? Are they still named Concerts, or do they go by Schools (as in schools of fish) or something else?

Edit: Wait, nevermind. Just learnt that they’re called Shoals

[SaulottheGentle]

I know this is abit late, but I don't know if I'll be on here for Siren. I may still post updates, which as of yet includes that I have made Touchstones a thing and inserted them into Chapter 2, underneath relationships.

I also want to post, for those still interested, that we now have a discord chat for Siren. If anyone's interested, here's the link. :3

https://discord.gg/C3kxZxv

[SaulottheGentle]

Your Welcome Saul. Also, do you mind if I write a couple more plothooks for Poseidon?

I don't mind. :3

On another subject, there's been more progress. The Changelog is here, but I will share the biggest changes I've made here.
Changelog: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Overall, the biggest changes made in Siren as of late are as follows:

• The Finished Singular Files have been updated to fit with how they look in the chapters, making it significantly easier to look into the sections! Link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...jFRamQwd09tb1k
• The Relationships have been added to Chapter 2 and have had many of their systems segmented or updated. The Social Maneuvering System can also be used to help make a Relationship better, or crush it to bits and pieces! Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
• The Sirens have gotten a new weakness to reflect how they can get obsessive about the mortals they're with. This can form out into love in the case of those the Siren loves, or obsessive hatred if she's stuck with someone she dislikes. Details in here:
  The Pain of Passion: Attachment
  As spoken with Relationships, love is both empowering and painful for a Siren. She might find herself caring more for those she’s been around quicker than most normal people can healthily. The more she cares about someone, the more obsessed she can be. This leads to a second, more psychological pain for Sirens: Attachment
  
  When a Siren has spent the minimum of one hour with someone else, who must be a sapient human being (but any supernatural splat can count too) she rolls her Akashic Record + Appropriate Stability - the Amour Modifier as listed in the Verses section for the person. The Siren can take more than one roll if she’s stuck with someone for several hours.
  
  Exceptional Success: The Siren’s infatuation with the person deeply roots itself into her psyche. The Siren gains one of the following conditions dealing with the person: Swooned, Obssession, Deprived, Yandere, or Bloodied Waters.
  Success: The Siren starts to become infatuated with the person. She gains one of the following Conditions: Swooned, Shaken, Guilty, Leveraged, Troubled Waters, Heartsick.
  Failure: The Siren’s love or ire doesn’t grow for the person.
  Dramatic Failure: The Siren gains no love and feels no furthered hatred, and this calmness extends itself. The next time she would have to roll for attachment, she can ignore the roll and treat it like it failed.
  
  It should be noted that a Siren doesn’t necessarily fall in love with the person. She only becomes more obsessed with the person she was stuck with. She may act more like how she would around a crush, or be abit more compliant to those she either doesn’t swing that way for, or she may be more inclined to outright hate those who she’s stuck with or tormented by.

One thing that I felt I haven't covered enough is the Touchstones a Siren can have and how they connect to Nature Stability. It's one thing to love nature for what it's worth, but not everyone is inclined to go outside and enjoy it or love it in the way Sirens do.

So I was thinking on the ideas that perhaps a Touchstone for Sirens aren't just products of Nature, but they can cover things like "belief systems", "concepts that are present in both the natural world and in humanity", or things that remind a Siren that every part of life is but one gear on the concept that is Nature. What do you guys think?

One of the next things I will be focusing more on is getting the Mundane and Celestial Oceans as well as Tilts and Conditions documents updated or flesh out some new ideas. One I have is that each Water can cover more kinds of disasters than the ones they solely have, and that will give them more flavor.

[Killerclown]

Your Welcome Saul. Also, do you mind if I write a couple more plothooks for Poseidon?

[SaulottheGentle]

It's been little over 2 years since I started working on this project. I believed back when I first began this that I would be done by the end of the first year. And yet I'm happy to say that I'm still here. I just want to say that I've enjoyed working on this, and that I don't want to stop until I'm finished with this project.

I just want to thank everyone who's brought this idea so far, both the people on the RPG.net forums and the people on these forums, and the people who've been watching this game. ^^

I'll start off this update by saying I've finally gotten around to making a Changelog! And it's about time too. This is where I'll store any changes I've made to the gameline and hopefully make it easier to go through.

Changelog: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Chapter 2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Chapter 3: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Chapter 4: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Now for the actual conquests for the next Update!
1: I'm still planning on writing how the Celestial Currents band together as one, that being the only thing I haven't done.
2: Given -metablender's ideas on the Breathless and Survivors, I should edit them to be separate beings and strengthening their positions.
3: Finally, one thing I want to focus on is Relationships and Touchstones as a whole. One theme in Siren that I want to be very much felt is the tug of Civilization and Nature, and a Siren's want to cling to one or the other and the dangers in doing so. I could go on and on about this, but the best I can say is I want Relationships to be both a speck of light that makes the world worth living for, and something that makes Sirens go crazy over to keep alive and well.

[SaulottheGentle]

I would now like to happily say that all of the Conclusions have been revised. From Calm to Travel, all of them now cover much more. They're at the bottom of Chapter 3 as usual. The Outline can let you skip right towards them. For those who don't want to go through all of that and get to the specific revisions (and their general outline), here is the list of docs I made when revising them.

Chapter 3: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Conclusion Revision Docs: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kz...o0Sxk5Bd29IYXL

There are a few more things I wish to go over and revise, or more appropriately try to clean up the system and mechanics. Work out any kinks or things that might hinder gameplay. So far, these are the things that I feel need revisions.

* Opus Text Cleanup
* Introduction Cleanup
* What Determines the Cost of a Verse
* Alterations Cleanup, making some more useful or reasoning on some of the skill enhancement ones
* Minor Current Revisions to add more flavor to them
* Potentially a write-up on how the Celestial Currents get along and how they divide their "territory" in a city

There is one last idea I have for Sirens. And that is namely for adding in a third Knowledge they can gain, namely one for each Current. This is to show how each current tries to solve the Deluge or believes can be the answer to it. Buoyancy thinks that necessarily evil actions may stop the Deluge, Conflict thinks that violence is necessary, Harmony thinks that social organization or unity may be the key to stopping it, Healing thinks that things need to be fixed, Wisdom thinks that each problem can be found and solved.

The Abyssal Currents believe otherwise. Acheron doesn't think there's a problem with the Deluge, but instead think the Deluge is the solution to the world's problems. Cocytus thinks that the answer is forbidden, tucked away in the darkest depths and must be plunged after to find it. Lethe thinks that humanity is the solution to the deluge, and/or that nature is the problem. Styx is vice versa. Oceanus thinks that there isn't a solution to the Deluge, but there is one for Humanity's survival and that is Echidna. And finally, Phlegethon is all "Deluge? What Deluge?" and keep drinking, fucking and whatever else they do to entertain themselves.

[SaulottheGentle]

Hello people, I just want to start off that I haven't been as dead as I seem. As of late, I've been editing the Conclusions powers. They've felt too specialized in what they can do in effects, and I want to rectify that. One thing I've wanted to capture in Siren Verses is the ability for them to be as versatile as a player's creativity can get, and I feel by making the powers more generalized, this can be achieved.

The only ones I've edited at this post is Calm, Disturb, Travel and Transform. The revisions have already been set into Chapter 3 already, but here's the docs I've been using to cover the various changes.

Calm Revisions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Disturb Revisions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Transform Revisions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Travel Revisions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I will post more as I revise more. :3

[SaulottheGentle]

Oh how a few days of work and procrastinating on things becomes a month. ><"

Why couldn't Sirens reproduce via sexual means? From what I read it would be difficult to say the least, but not impossible.

Sirens should be able to reproduce like any other human being. I don't think there should be some problems on their end to have a child. Save that their kids wouldn't taste of fish, sorry flensers.
But the thing is that I don't think that the kids would be Sirens as well. Some may have the Unseen Sense and probably wouldn't get freaked out that mommy is a fish monster, basing off of exposure to it lessens impact over time, plus it's their mom/dad, it's hard to look at a monster who you know is a loved one and is still reasonably connected to humanity.

Other than that, I don't think that being a Siren's kid is reason enough for them to be a Siren too.

[Flyboy254]

Why couldn't Sirens reproduce via sexual means? From what I read it would be difficult to say the least, but not impossible.

[SaulottheGentle]

I've had one small thought that I was thinking on for the longest time. The only reason I haven't brought up this idea is mainly because it feels too similar to vampires.

What if Sirens were able to turn people into more Sirens? I mean, it's a somewhat common idea that mermaids could turn people into more of their kind, but not present in the original myths on either one of them. And ofc the only idea I have for them making more Sirens is basically the same as the embrace: drain a mortal of all their Pneuma, split off a point of Akashic Record and boom - they're a Siren.

The only problem I have with this is mainly three factors. 1 is that it's basically ripping from Vampire, and I dislike the idea of copying. 2 is that even if we did use the Vampire method, souls/Pneuma isn't exactly the same as Vitae and thus wouldn't work on the same principle. 3 is that the Song doesn't work that way. Mortals need to be called by the Song or at a state where they can hear it, the Song can't actively make people into Sirens (granted Ceto, it's creator, could).

So I have one point where this idea (if it's like) can be played on and solved: Breathless. The torn hole in their soul is where their Akashic Record was SUPPOSED to be. If the hole is there but isn't filled, doesn't that mean a Siren could theoretically give the Breathless a piece of their Akashic Record? The only thought left is "how" but I do like the idea that a willing Siren is able to willingly fill a torn hole into someone else's soul and the side effect is that they become a Siren too.

[SaulottheGentle]

Double posting to highlight some discussion had in the google drive revision document.

It's fine to double post, I've done it loads of times here for updates. :3

Their name suggests activeness, as they struggle to survive the Celestial Oceans disasters directly.

Not to mention the shift to post-apocalyptic Survival the Celestial Ocean has.

The Breathless were described as people who experienced the Song but were overpowered by it, their personality changed by this Drowning and their souls wounded to the point that they don't even need to breathe. Their name suggests a passiveness, as their natural sympathy garnered from others and means to shield themselves from Verses could be a predisposition to inactivity. Unlike the struggling Survivors, the Breathless have given up on something. Relations with a Breathless can be exploited by a Siren to enhance their harvesting of Pneuma from a community.

I now wonder if the Breathless's name should be shifted to something else more befitting them. The name was originally made when the Siren's still called Pneuma "Breath", and the name still somewhat fits since Pneuma is the "breath of life"/willpower/shreds of the human soul. Any thoughts?

I also wonder if the Breathless should also have a small system outlining their Drowning or any potential way to "stop" being a Breathless. At the moment, I'm imagining that if the Breathless manages to somehow fix the problem that broke their souls in the first place, then they return to being human.

As they can be influenced by many Celestial Ocean concepts, such as shifting disasters or Ruins and Despots, they could possess Alterations like the animalistic Therons that could change as these parameters change. As an aside, an important distinction that should be had for any non-Siren with an Alteration. If they don't have Akashic Record, any Alteration governed by this value should have a maximum value of 1.

Indeed. If I may suggest a small thought for the Survivors, it's namely that they're still above the level of humans, but not at the same level of Sirens (or even facing them) unless they're in groups. The Survivors still need at least one reason they don't demand things from Sirens while still being able to survive on their own.

For Breathless, a further emphasis can be placed on their 'soul-wounded' condition and their outlier status amongst the Song.They should be both toughed and vulnerable at the same time, I'd say.

For them, I think there needs to be at least one distinction made. Being a Breathless means having a hole torn in your soul, not having your soul lost in the first place. Therefore, there should be at least a good difference between being Breathless and having the Soulless, Ennervated and Thrall conditions. I'm fine with it being like a halfway point between being a normal mortal and Soulless.

One idea I had for this was that the Breathless don't suffer Breaking Points from external events, such as watching horrible scenes unfold or whatnot. Like a wounded animal trying to survive, the pain of others seem to pale in comparison to their own. However, they can still take Breaking Points from doing horrible actions themselves. In essence, it may be abit like they have the nWoD Morality rather than Integrity.

[-metablender]

Double posting to highlight some discussion had in the google drive revision document.

The likely resolution is splitting apart the Survivors and Breathless as minor templates, as the latter was being renamed to the former. Survivors are the denizens of the post-diluvian world in the Deluge, lacking any anchors to the pre-diluvian world (or reality) save for an ancestor or past self. Their name suggests activeness, as they struggle to survive the Celestial Oceans disasters directly.

The Breathless were described as people who experienced the Song but were overpowered by it, their personality changed by this Drowning and their souls wounded to the point that they don't even need to breathe. Their name suggests a passiveness, as their natural sympathy garnered from others and means to shield themselves from Verses could be a predisposition to inactivity. Unlike the struggling Survivors, the Breathless have given up on something. Relations with a Breathless can be exploited by a Siren to enhance their harvesting of Pneuma from a community.

The aim of this post is to facilitate discussion for refining the Survivor and Breathless minor templates. Survivors are human-like but altered by the ante-diluvian world. As they can be influenced by many Celestial Ocean concepts, such as shifting disasters or Ruins and Despots, they could possess Alterations like the animalistic Therons that could change as these parameters change. As an aside, an important distinction that should be had for any non-Siren with an Alteration. If they don't have Akashic Record, any Alteration governed by this value should have a maximum value of 1.

For Breathless, a further emphasis can be placed on their 'soul-wounded' condition and their outlier status amongst the Song.They should be both toughed and vulnerable at the same time, I'd say.

[-metablender]

For the most part, I've been going through my own writing to clean up the grammar. But it could do with someone else looking into it. There has been the random people commenting on the docs and correcting grammar, all of which I'm thankful for.


I see. So I would just need to add in clarifications into this document? Would it be like a Q and A, but more specific to how things work in Siren and whatnot? I'm just abit confused how to go about this, please pardon it. ><"

The type of editing I'm talking is the next step beyond grammar choice. That's when the documents of Siren are refined to what would be "publication ready" in regards to making sure everything fits together. Some of the connections between the sections of the game can be made stronger through revisions.

In regards to a revision document, I think it would work best if a limited number of authors make edits to it. You, me, perhaps others on an editing team. Any found discrepancies or elements that need further clarification would be posted there for revision work. In effect it's a light amount of discussion space compared to the built in gdoc comment system. While handy for catching typos and small questions, it's a bit limited to cover bigger revisions without creating a wall of text

I could even set up the revision document in the folder if you prefer. You've given me editing permission on the crossover and chorus companion pieces, for example, but I'm unsure if that means I could create a new document for the revision work.

[SaulottheGentle]

is there a link or an hub post for the material which made for this gameline? I would like to read it, but I don't have the time or capability to go through 40+ pages in search for all the little bits of information :P

It's at the end of the first post, but for some reason it doesn't become a hyperlink when I try to re-edit it. Here it is for convenience though. :3

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bwda1WVb-LLcYVMyYl95MDAxa0U&usp=sharing