Curios, Relics and Tomes

[Taidragon]

RE: Herbie (and self aware vehicles in general)

Self aware vehicles are a classic case of something that straddle the line between Horror and Relic. I look at things from a "how will this be used in game". If you intend for the vehicle to literally have a mind of its own and isn't beholden to the whims of the PC's, then run it as a Horror. If the vehicle serves primarily as special equipment for the players to use (accounting for costs, quirks, and other drawbacks) then it is a relic.

That's a very nice bit of wisdom I'll need to internalize. Thank you Reignhell, I really appreciate it.

[nofather]

Here's one, or two, if you wouldn't mind.

I always liked the weird magic artifacts in Dungeons and Dragons.

How would you pull off a Chronicles of Darkness version of the Eye and Hand of Vecna?

[Reighnhell]

Re: Relics of Vecna

These were tricky - Each edition of D&D from AD&D onward has its own version of these items and the D&D ruleset(s) have fundamentally different expectations, scale, and play style than CofD. That being said, I think these capture the feel of the items while being at home in the CofD play style.

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Eye of the Whispered One ●●●●●
It is said that this item is the mummified left eye of an ancient king who ruled a domain somewhere in Eastern Europe. This ruler, known only as “The Whispered One” was known for both his wickedness and his great mystic abilities. Legend has it that he was betrayed by his own lieutenant and slain, with his left eye and left hand being severed in the assault. Whether or not there is any truth to these legends is debatable, but the power within the Eye is undeniable. The Eye itself appears as a mummified human eye, stained blood-red and cold to the touch. The Eye of the Whispered One grants its equipment bonus to investigation and research rolls involving Occult secrets and mysteries.
Equipment Bonus: +3 Size: 0 Durability: 2(7) Availability: 5

Powers
Indestructible: The Eye is sustained by potent otherworldly power that makes it effectively indestructible. It regenerates a point of Structure every night even if it's been destroyed previously.
To use the following abilities, the possessor must spend 5 points of willpower to gain the Bonded Relic condition.
The Evil Eye: With a baleful glare, the user can lay a potent curse. The user gains access to the Evil Eye Merit (Hurt Locker, pg. 73) for as long as they wield the Eye. If the wielder uses both the Hand and the Eye of the Whispered One, then wielder may use Evil Eye to inflict the Insane or Sickened (Grave) Tilts instead.
Second Sight: The Eye grants its user uncanny perceptive abilities. The wielder does not suffer normal vision penalties for being in the dark. In full darkness, they only suffer a –2 die penalty to rolls that require vision. In addition, the user gains access to the Aura Reading Merit for as long as they wield the Eye.

Drawback
Maiming: In order to use the Eye, the wielder must place the relic in their left eye socket. Typically this means gouging out their own eye to make room. While the Eye is in use, the wielder can see normally, and the eye takes the appearance of a typical (if discolored) human eye. If the Eye of the Whispered One is ever removed, the lost organ cannot be restored, resisting even supernatural abilities of regeneration or replacement. The user gains the Blinded Tilt as a persistent Condition.
Malefactor: The Eye brings out the worst in its wearer. The wearer gains the Malefactor Condition for as long as they wield the Eye. If the wielder uses both the Hand and the Eye of the Whispered One, they gain the Corrupted Condition instead.

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Hand of the Whispered One ●●●●●
It is said that this item is the mummified left hand of an ancient king who ruled a domain somewhere in Eastern Europe. This ruler, known only as “The Whispered One” was known for both his wickedness and his great mystic abilities. Legend has it that he was betrayed by his own lieutenant and slain, with his left eye and left hand being severed in the assault. Whether or not there is any truth to these legends is debatable, but the power within the Hand is undeniable. The Hand itself appears as a blackened, mummified human hand. The Hand of the Whispered One grants its equipment bonus to rolls involving gripping power (including grapples).
Equipment Bonus: +3 Size: 1 Durability: 2(7) Availability: 5

Powers
Indestructible: The Hand is sustained by potent otherworldly power that makes it effectively indestructible. It regenerates a point of Structure every night even if it's been destroyed previously.
To use the following abilities, the possessor must spend 5 points of willpower to gain the Bonded Relic condition.
The Diabolic Grasp: The Hand possesses an enervating power, capable of draining vitality with a touch. The user gains access to the Numbing Touch ●●● Merit (using a dice pool of Presence +Occult +Numbing Touch) for as long as they wield the Hand. In addition, the brawling strikes made with the Hand deal lethal damage. This Merit gains an additional two dots if the wielder uses both the Hand and the Eye of the Whispered One.
Unholy Sigil: With an arcane gesture the wielder can defend themselves against hostile supernatural powers. The wielder may spend a point of Willpower and make a Wits+ Occult roll. If successful, they gain the Supernatural Resistance ●●● Merit (Hurt Locker, pg. 78) until the end of the scene. On an exceptional success the duration is extended until the next sunrise.

Drawback
Maiming: In order to use the Hand, the wielder must place the relic onto the stump of the wielders left arm. Typically this means cutting off their own left hand to make room. While the Hand is in use, it functions as a normal hand would but retains its mummified appearance. If the Hand of the Whispered One is ever removed, the lost limb cannot be restored, resisting even supernatural abilities of regeneration or replacement. The user gains the Arm Wrack Tilt as a persistent Condition.
Malefactor: The Hand brings out the worst in its wearer. The wielder gains the Malefactor Condition for as long as they wield the Hand.
If the wielder uses both the Hand and the Eye of the Whispered One, they gain the Corrupted Condition instead.

[nofather]

Nice, I particularly like the equipment bonuses, they're a good touch.

[wyrdhamster]

Mr. Reighnhell, I have some questions on the subject of your items and systems in this topic:
1. How do they differ from Bygones in God Machine Rules Update? Or are they mostly the same with your items from here?
2. How would you let PCs uncover Powers and Drawbacks of them? Simply extended Research roll on Intelligence+Academics or Occult? If yes, how would be success limit for each item? 5 Successes per each dot of item?

[Reighnhell]

RE: Bygones

The Bygone rules are interesting. They were introduced well after I started writing up Relics (primarily using rules from Reliquary with an ample amount of home-brewed adjustment). Ultimately, they are meant to represent the same types of items; objects of mysterious origin with strange abilities. Bygones are essentially Relics that aren't described in terms of Dots per Effect and they are used more as events/encounters than items to be acquired (although the line between those distinctions is blurry).

As far as discovering the history and abilities of a Item (hopefully before you gouge out an eye), treat it like researching an Ephemeral Entity (CofD, pg.139), using the items dot rating in place of Rank. Since Bygones do not have a dot Rating, I would default to a effective Rating of 3 - adjust the number of required successes up or down depending on how challenging you want to make the research ( Mikes smokes might reduce the target number by two while Abella’s Mirror might increase the target number by 4).

Hope that helps!

[wyrdhamster]

Oh, yeah, it helps!

But one more question on subcject - If using 2E Mage Sight rules for mages, what would be starting Opacity rating for your Relics? Their Dot Rating? And as those are more Fallen World items than Supernal, they add +1 to Opacity?

[Reighnhell]

Re: Relics and Mages

I set up these relics for a largely mortal-facing campaign, but it is worth notation how they would interact how the operate when encountered by various supernaturals. Since wyrdhamster has raised the question in this thread (and here), I will address it below by topic.

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Opacity
A Relic is intended to be Mysterious. I leave whether or not a particular item is Supernal deliberately ambiguous so it can be tailored to the needs of your campaign, but most Relics are non-supernal in nature;Opacity is equal to its Dot Rating.

Integrity Breaking Points
When designing Relics, I leverage whether or not it causes a Breaking point as a cost-mitigating factor. I use it in cases where there is a particularly unsettling, soul-damaging or plain evil aspect of using the Relic. This goes above and beyond a Mortals typical response to interacting with the Supernatural. For a Mage, if the item triggers a breaking point at a 0 or -1 penalty, it is an Understanding Act of Hubris. If the item triggers a breaking point at a -2 or -3 penalty, it is an Falling Act of Hubris.

Soul Loss
At the time I am writing this, I have created a total of 125 Relics - of these only two (The Devil's Due and O’Grady’s Gloves) have Soul Loss as a consequence of activation. A few others can inflict Soul Loss as one of its powers ( The Harvester and Undying Love). In either case, a Mage would treat this as they would any other hostile soul magic. While a Mage has access to powerful protective magic, without it they are as vulnerable to having their souls attacked as any Mortal. However a Mage is far more likely to know if a Relic has soul stealing powers, and they can decide well in advance if that is a cost they want to pay.

[wyrdhamster]

Opacity
A Relic is intended to be Mysterious. I leave whether or not a particular item is Supernal deliberately ambiguous so it can be tailored to the needs of your campaign, but most Relics are non-supernal in nature;Opacity is equal to its Dot Rating.

And here we come to the problem...

From Signs of Sorcery Mage Sight preview:

• Abyssal Mysteries and those from similarly alien realms (the Lower Depths, splinter timelines, and the like) almost always have a higher Opacity than those that originate in the Supernal or Fallen Worlds.
• Even if the Mystery isn't Supernal, if it falls under the purview of multiple Arcana, increase the Opacity by 1 for every additional Arcanum that applies.
• If the Mystery is an example of a well-catalogued phenomenon (for example, an instance of Astral possession in Los Angeles), lower the Opacity by a point or two.

As Relics seems to be more Fallen World creation ( they do not operate on the alien natures of other realities and surely are not Supernal ), they seems to be having base Opacity like Supernal items ( i.e. simply their Dot Rating ). BUT they nature is not easily grasp just by looking on them. I think that they should get +1 to Opacity by their mysterious origins.

Integrity Breaking Points
When designing Relics, I leverage whether or not it causes a Breaking point as a cost-mitigating factor. I use it in cases where there is a particularly unsettling, soul-damaging or plain evil aspect of using the Relic. This goes above and beyond a Mortals typical response to interacting with the Supernatural. For a Mage, if the item triggers a breaking point at a 0 or -1 penalty, it is an Understanding Act of Hubris. If the item triggers a breaking point at a -2 or -3 penalty, it is an Falling Act of Hubris.

This seems... logical, in context of 'truely evil' items.

Soul Loss
At the time I am writing this, I have created a total of 125 Relics - of these only two (The Devil's Due and O’Grady’s Gloves) have Soul Loss as a consequence of activation. A few others can inflict Soul Loss as one of its powers ( The Harvester and Undying Love). In either case, a Mage would treat this as they would any other hostile soul magic. While a Mage has access to powerful protective magic, without it they are as vulnerable to having their souls attacked as any Mortal. However a Mage is far more likely to know if a Relic has soul stealing powers, and they can decide well in advance if that is a cost they want to pay.

So the Soul Loss would be Deep Information from Mage Sight on looking over item? Like '<red light> When used, it can take your Soul' in your head?

[Reighnhell]

Re: Relics and the Supernal

I have written up the Relics with the deliberate intent that their origins are vague and left to the desires of ST. In a Werewolf game, you can say they some are fetishes, in a Vampire game, perhaps the result of Blood Magic, and (of course) for Mage some could have a supernal source. That being said, a +1 modifier for being explicitly non-supernal would not be game breaking (and I appreciate anything that makes a Mage have to work for a living!)

Re: Mage Sight

Indeed. Mage Sight is exactly the thing that a Mage would use to see exactly what a Relic is capable of. Its just the thing to avoid those pesky mind-altering and soul warping hidden costs.

[wyrdhamster]

Mage some could have a supernal source.

Not very seeing this, as Supernal Items are 'perfectly ideal / in their way / and not of this world' ( i.e. Artifacts ), but it's only nitpicking by my. Relics are written from your perspective as items forming in Fallen World, part's of it's weird collections of various 'magics', and as such would be cataloged by Mysterium as much more Fallen World's children than Supernal items.

That being said, a +1 modifier for being explicitly non-supernal would be game breaking (and I appreciate anything that makes a Mage have to work for a living!)

I assume it's sarcastic as +1 Opacity is not very much, in reality. It's like a minor speed bump, than truly game breaking. But yes, it makes Relics using slightly more 'those items are weird to our Mage Sight and let's better check them extensively'.

Re: Mage Sight
Indeed. Mage Sight is exactly the thing that a Mage would use to see exactly what a Relic is capable of. Its just the thing to avoid those pesky mind-altering and soul warping hidden costs.

Seems reasonable.

[Reighnhell]

Quick edit - I meant "Would not be game breaking"

Re: Supernal Relics

I see where you are coming from. Supernal as in Manifested from the Supernal Realms would indeed be an idealized item, which these Relics are far too broken and scarred to be. I was thinking more Supernal as in A Mage threw Arcana at a Toaster until it did something cool. Those items I would say have as much potential to be unorthodox and flawed as the hands that make them.

[wyrdhamster]

Quick edit - I meant "Would not be game breaking"

This makes sense then.

Re: Supernal Relics

I see where you are coming from. Supernal as in Manifested from the Supernal Realms would indeed be an idealized item, which these Relics are far too broken and scarred to be. I was thinking more Supernal as in A Mage threw Arcana at a Toaster until it did something cool. Those items I would say have as much potential to be unorthodox and flawed as the hands that make them.

Oh, so you mean that Supernal Relics can be Imbued or Enhanced Items ( created by wizards ), but not Artifacts ( created by Supernal itself ) - then yes, I agree with this take.

[nofather]

I was thinking more Supernal as in A Mage threw Arcana at a Toaster until it did something cool. Those items I would say have as much potential to be unorthodox and flawed as the hands that make them.

Think that's sort of how the perfected metals come into being, taking one metal and using magic to shift it in and out of Twilight a bunch. Your objects, in this thread, really struck me more like the ghost-touched ones.

[Reighnhell]

Re: Relic Origins

When I write these up, I normally have a "True Origin" in mind, but sometimes only hint at it in the text. I like having a variety of possible sources, because in play I can let the players effectively "pick" the origin that best fits the game we are playing or the personal theory that the players come up with. Many times I will adjust things on the fly if the players purposes a theory that I like better; that "theory" becomes the truth. One of my elements of my Storytelling Style is to do extensive world-building, and to have a large amount of pre-fabricated material and mechanics I can drop in at a moments notice, but to also be flexible enough to alter course at any time based upon what the players are doing, and which elements they respond to. These Relics are all built with that philosophy in mind.