Simplified Ephemeral Being Rules [You'll probably hate this!]

[Nuwisha Nutjob]

I like what you have so far. I'm more inclined to streamlined rules-light gameplay (from my days as a cWoD larper), so making your spirits more narratively ambient with less mechanics is appealing to me.

[ManusDomine]

I too, would love to see this finished.

[GibberingEloquence]

amechra, do you still plan on finishing this system? If you are having trouble, I can try to help.

[ManusDomine]

So while we are waiting for Amechra in all their magnificence to finish this, i've written some things:

Shadow Wraith

Fear is omnipresent in the world: the creepong anxieties of modern humanity, the raw panic of knowing there's something in the shadows, the visceral terror of violence and pain. It's now surprise that fear spirits are common across the Shadow.

Rank: 2
Essence Capacity: Low
Influences: Fear (Medium)
Numinous Conditions: Ghostly Terror (Whenever the Shadow Wraith causes a human being to take the Shaken, Spooked or Frightened Condition, it may increase it's Essence Capacity by one, to a maximum of it's natural Essence Capacity.)
Aspirations: Cause fear, create paranoia
Ban: A Shadow Wraith cannot enter a circle of illumination cast by a fire or light that a scared human has lit.
Bane: Fire.

Bladeling

Since the dawn of time, humans have sought new ways to kill each other, from the club, to the sword, to the gun, history is really just a long parade of successful murderers. The blade is a favored weapon by many, and this Spirit represents human desire to cut each other open with their blades of steel and other metals.

Rank: 2
Essence Capacity: Low
Influences: Blades (Low), Violence (Low)
Numinous Conditions: Violent Slasher (Whenever the Bladeling causes harm to befall a human being due to a blade, it gains a point of Willpower.)
Aspirations: Use blades to hurt
Ban: A Bladeling cannot harm someone who has never taken part in violence before.
Bane: Pacifists

[GibberingEloquence]

But that's just it, Feast. Spirits reduced to zero health aren't killed. Unless you somehow drain all their essence, which, frankly, isn't going to happen. Spirits can "kill" themselves first.

Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that this system, even if effectively the same as the official one, still takes the focus away from direct and reckless confrontation, with streamlined crunch to support it. I like that, but I can see where you're coming from.

I suppose we should wait until Amechra fills out the second post before continuing this discussion.

[MCN]

But that's just it, Feast. Spirits reduced to zero health aren't killed. Unless you somehow drain all their essence, which, frankly, isn't going to happen. Spirits can "kill" themselves first.

[GibberingEloquence]

Yep!

I very seldom have a "point" to what I do. Most people come up with justifications for their actions after the fact, anyway, so while I could give you my reasons for doing this, they'd probably be lies.

But if I had to guess: I felt like doing it.

I thought you were trying to discourage the bee-line resolution that some players always use as the first tactic when dealing with otherworldly terrors. You know how the first rule of Munchkinism goes: "any finite number can be reduced to zero" (i.e. "if it has stats, we can kill it"). I mean, you told me something very true a while ago when you saw one of my homebrewed Numina with drawbacks (which I have since corrected). Even a Rank 1 spirit is a tiny god, and you aren't supposed to think of gods as things you can just kill. I, for one, felt like there was something lacking in my sheet for The Stag, even when I made it Rank 7 and gave it loads of powers and house rules. I am pretty sure that was the same reasoning the developers of Changeling 2ED used when they focused on the Huntsmen instead of the Gentry.

I might be phrasing it wrong, but I still love the central idea behind this.

[amechra]

I feel like you're just making the same rules more abstract.

Yep!

I very seldom have a "point" to what I do. Most people come up with justifications for their actions after the fact, anyway, so while I could give you my reasons for doing this, they'd probably be lies.

But if I had to guess: I felt like doing it.

[GibberingEloquence]

I.... don't understand the point. It seems to me that you are simply rewording the same rules. I'm not seeing any functional differences here other than being simpler. Hells, even with current ephemeral being rules, if you inflict all Health levels full of damage, the spirit simply reforms and no issue is resolved. Even in Werewolf, it won't be too much different, since the majority of spirits tend to be dealt with through draining all their essence and preventing new food soiurces, or sealing them away, or undoing their anchors, etc.

I feel like you're just making the same rules more abstract.

Well, in Amechra's defense, the official rules could have had a bit more mechanical back-up for how to starve a spirit once you fill their Corpus with aggravated damage. You've got Gifts and Rites that help with that, sure, but it's nice to have guidelines that you can use even when you're not playing the games where those ephemeral beings are important to their part of the cosmology.

In simpler terms, I guess Amechra wants the conflicts with ephemeral beings to feel more like quests than fights.

[MCN]

I.... don't understand the point. It seems to me that you are simply rewording the same rules. I'm not seeing any functional differences here other than being simpler. Hells, even with current ephemeral being rules, if you inflict all Health levels full of damage, the spirit simply reforms and no issue is resolved. Even in Werewolf, it won't be too much different, since the majority of spirits tend to be dealt with through draining all their essence and preventing new food soiurces, or sealing them away, or undoing their anchors, etc.

I feel like you're just making the same rules more abstract.

[Almarck]

Already taken into consideration.

My perception check failed

[amechra]

My thought on this system is that Werewolves get the least benefit from stateless spirits.

It's harder to rend, tear, and devour spirits without a health bar afterall.
They can Harry and whittle at the preys essence.. but actually harming it isn't doable.

I suppose not every splat would find the same rules good.

Clearly, this means that these rules aren't going to work for, say, Werewolf or Geist.

Already taken into consideration.

[Almarck]

My thought on this system is that Werewolves get the least benefit from stateless spirits.

It's harder to rend, tear, and devour spirits without a health bar afterall.
They can Harry and whittle at the preys essence.. but actually harming it isn't doable.

I suppose not every splat would find the same rules good.

[GibberingEloquence]

I like where this is going. It's kinda like a Brief Nightmares system, but the purpose is very different. It's a good way to address the old "Lovecraftian monstrosities shouldn't have stats" problem.

EDIT: I bet that Numinous Conditions will include the sort of powers that dramatically alter the course of the scene the moment they take effect. Strange Environmental Tilts and Amechra's Awful Presence Numen come to mind.

[Deionscribe]

Well, this has a lot of potential.

I'm watching this.