New System: Organization Rules (Cults, Conspiracies, Orders and Covenants)

[NeoTiamat]

Interesting. I looked at Primacy back when I was making the Organization Rules. It's good stuff! Just not precisely what I'm working towards here. But yes, you can dress up Organizations via Covenants, Orders, Agencies, what have you, the rules should be flexible enough for that. The whole idea was to establish a kind of common ground for understanding how these guys rank.

I may glance at Princess, for all that I am a trifle afraid.

[Michael Brazier]

If you're interested, the Princess fansplat has a set of organization rules that's basically a mashup of GMC's social maneuvering and Primacy (for which, ahem, I am responsible.)

[FallenEco]

I thought so, but it is always a good idea to get a second, more seasoned opinion.

As for what we were focused on...I was somewhat distracted by my shiny metal flower so I haven't had time to go over your updates. On the plus side, the Agency 'rules' basically add 'fluff' meat to your mechanical 'bones'.

Edit: Though it might be better to call the suggestions about Agencies frameworks, rather than rules.

[NeoTiamat]

Let's see... Geist Krewes...

<> Tiers and Ranks
A Cult is a Rank 1-2 Organization
A Faction is a Rank 3-4 Organization
A Conspiracy is a Rank 5 Organization. Given Geist's somewhat more open nature, I could see a really large and united Conspiracy as being Rank 6, though it would need a high degree of organization and centralization. On the other hand, I could also see a Conspiracy being run as a set of allied Rank 3-4 Organizations (ultimately, it depends on how independent the branches are)

<> The Experience system and the Founding System are a bit extraneous, though still not a bad idea to do them from a roleplaying aspect. (Figure out Bans, Duties, etc).

<> Most of the basic benefits of the Krewe system, such as the Avatars and Supernatural Merits, can be converted over relatively easy. Call them a Proprietary Magic (in this case, one bought via Merits), or else convert some of them into Organization Benefits or Drawbacks. The Temporal Merits (Pooled Merits, Enhanced Merits, Merit Mastery) I'd remove, as their effect is broadly simulated with Reach, Grasp, and so forth.

Overall, doesn't look too hard to make a Krewe fit in with the Organization System. Just need to sand away at the edges some.

[Griautis]

Alright, seems like that's a great weakness for London's OD And that whole set up sounds cool

[NeoTiamat]

Not what I expected people to comment on. Well then!

First, for the record, this is just how the OD in my London campaign is organized, and not terribly representative of how the OD in general operates, and certainly not representative of how the Dragons in someone else's game would be run.

Second, the disorganization is not really too related to the size, except insofar as that the Ordo Dracul in the Covenant books had a fairly distributed system of governance which would require a high population to staff fully. The London specifics has more to do with the fact that the person with the most ostensible authority, the Kogaion, is also a character that rather emphatically dumped Social stats (Physical power-house? Yes. Educated scholar? Yes. Seven Coils? Yes. Persuasion of 0? Also yes.) The situation is further complicated by the fact that the relative weakness of the London Ordo Dracul (it's easily the smallest and weakest Covenant) means that it tends to attract more 'insane mad scientists' and less 'canny politicians'. The lone Sworn of the Mysteries in the covenant tries to keep things semi-organized, but it's an uphill struggle with a great deal of cat-herding involved.

(And truthfully, I figured it's a fun counterpoint to some of the more cohesive factions running around my campaign, especially as the OD are the only vampire faction with PCs in it)

[FallenEco]

7 Sworn doesn't mean 7 people. It would be more accurate to say that it means that there are 7 people on the board of directors or in the noble family.

Except depending on which oath, this can mean 2 Commanders in Chief, 3 Supreme Justices and a legislative body of 2. Still with 20-30 underlings. Plenty of room for the Oreder to be disorganized.

[Griautis]

The Ordo Dracul![/FONT][/COLOR]
Rank: 3rd
Reach 5; Grasp 4
Benefits: Scholarly; Proprietary Magic (The Coils of the Dragon)
Drawbacks[COLOR=#000000][FONT=tahoma]: Disorganized

Smaller in my game, but they have access to enormous libraries, and of course, the Coils of the Dragon. On the downside, due to the small size, there's only about seven Sworn total, which means that the leadership structures are a bit chaotic.

As far as my experience says smaller size means better organisation. Among 7 people, one person can effectively organise them... One cannot effectively organise a group of 50. Of course, leadership in such a group probably comes down to 1-2 people tops, but it's much easier to navigate the organisation due to it's small size

[NeoTiamat]

So! Updated the system to reflect the rules I am using at present -- still room to tinker (I'm particularly trying to come up with new, good Drawbacks).

Now for some sample organizations:

The Invictus!
Rank: 5th
Reach 8; Grasp 8
Benefits: Pull; Well-Paid; Wealthy
Drawbacks: Treacherous, Stupid, or Both?; The Madness of the Crowds

Basically, they have lots and lots and LOTS of money, and a great deal of influence should they choose to use it. Members also get to trade on their cachet as members of the local mini-Illuminati. The catch? It's a whole society of Patrick Batemans.

The Ordo Dracul!
Rank: 3rd
Reach 5; Grasp 4
Benefits: Scholarly; Proprietary Magic (The Coils of the Dragon)
Drawbacks: Disorganized

Smaller in my game, but they have access to enormous libraries, and of course, the Coils of the Dragon. On the downside, due to the small size, there's only about seven Sworn total, which means that the leadership structures are a bit chaotic.

The Temple Guard!
Rank: 2nd
Reach 2; Grasp 4
Totem: Shadow Cipher (Rank 2: Investigation +2, Occult +1)
Benefits: Influence (Criminal); Where the Bodies are Buried
Drawbacks: Parochial

A pack of werewolf information brokers, with links to the criminal underworld and a lot of secrets, but which fades very rapidly outside of London.

[NeoTiamat]

I've actually streamlined the system in recent months, so I should put up the newer version. And then I can put up a few sample organizations, certainly.

I'll also take a look-see at the Krewe material, yes.

[amechra]

I definitely would like to see an example organization. Otherwise, I like this quite a lot.

[FallenEco]

While not the best written subsystem, Geist's krew mechanics fit the same sort of conceptual space. I don't suppose you'd give them a once over and demonstrate how to model them in your system?

[NeoTiamat]

That seems reasonable enough for me. Or I might simply have it be a contested roll between whichever of Reach+Rank and Grasp+Rank seems most relevant, assuming there isn't a handy PC to involve in the investigation.

[Paddon]

I'd also be interested in your take on one organization investigating another. I would presume it would be contested via Blocking, with successes leading to learning more about the infrastructure, Reach, Grasp, or Benefits? At least, failing should give *some* information, namely how did they shut the investigation down.

[NeoTiamat]

Not a bad idea. I'll have to think about it. Rank is to some extent a proxy for organizational complexity, so makes sense that higher Ranks means more variation of Status.